154 réponses à ce sujet

[ISpeakTheTruth]

In Exile wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I don't see how destroying the Qunari would represent genocide. The Qunari aren't just the Kossith but different races. The Kossith also aren't all Qunari there are many that aren't part of that 'faith' and therefore they wouldn't be killed because they aren't the problem

The Qun is a cancer that can't be allowed to live.

As I've tried to explain, destroying a culture constitutes genocide. You don't need to kill all (or any) of its members to do it, either.

The Qunari forced indoctrination camps would be an example of actual genocide. 

Then its the lesser of two genocides. Either the Qunari culture is destroyed or every other culture in the world is destroyed by the Qunari. I'm not going to say that cultural genocide is a good thing but when there is a society that will never be able to live in peace with any other society ever and will always try to destroy everything that isn't like them then that's a culture that doesn't deserve to exist.

[In Exile]

MisanthropePrime wrote...
You are aware the Qunari have a whole population on another continent, right? Pushing them out of Par Vollen and Seheron wouldn't be genocidal. If all the white people in America were killed, there's still plent of them in Europe.

That's not what the OP was advocating for. And, once again, that's not what genocide means. Even if we limit it to the killing part of the definition as opposed to the suppresing culture part of the definition, you don't need to kill every single group member for it to be genocide. 

[In Exile]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Then its the lesser of two genocides. Either the Qunari culture is destroyed or every other culture in the world is destroyed by the Qunari. I'm not going to say that cultural genocide is a good thing but when there is a society that will never be able to live in peace with any other society ever and will always try to destroy everything that isn't like them then that's a culture that doesn't deserve to exist.

OK? Again, I'm not telling people what to believe, just to own up to what they're advocating. 

[sandalisthemaker]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
How is it genocide if we're only killing invading armies, who are the only qunari we'd ever meet outside of Seheron or Par Vollen?

That's not what the last bit says. The last bit, in fact, talks about pushing the demons into Par Vollen and wipping out the Qunari first. 

Actually, redirecting the demonic hordes came before the last bit.
The last bit says they need to be destroyed before they destroy Thedas.  Kill or be killed.  Your moral high ground does not solve the problem.

[Potato Cat]

In Exile wrote...

Elfman wrote...
End the Arishok? As in, kill our Sten then stop them from picking new ones. This will stop the military and effectively halt the aggressive expansionism of the Qun and allow it to be more comparable to modern day religions. Of course, that will result in them being vulnerable from attack if the Chantry ever recuperates. 

I don't see how you could stop the Qunari from picking a military leader and developing a military short of a full on occupation. 

Well then that new military ruler is the new Arishok isn't he? End the Qunari military effectively is what I am saying, as that is how the Qunari interact with the rest of Thedas. Then the Ariqun and Arigena would have to take up that role of nteraction through trade and diplomacy.

[leaguer of one]

 For get the Qunari....
http://towleroad.typ...85a2e4a3970c-pi

[VampireSoap]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

Yeah, let's go genocide another race just for kicks!

That's messed up, bro.

Did you even read the last bit?

Yeah, I read that. 1937, somewhere in Germany, a man said, "we must wipe them out before they can make us all slaves. They are the enemy of all free thinking Aryans!"

Except the Qunari are acutally able to do it.

1. They aren't gonna commit genocide, and they aren't even gonna enslave anyone. Please read the Qun manifesto lol

2. Kill or be killed? What, you missed the whole enlightment movement? Like all those great philosophers never existed and the german with a strange moustache just became your new best friend.

[AresKeith]

 Who needs the Dalish anyway since we have City Elves and probably other types of Elves too 

[sandalisthemaker]

VampireSoap wrote...


They aren't gonna commit genocide, and they aren't even gonna enslave anyone. Please read the Qun manifesto lol

Judging by what we've been shown in DA2 and the comics, you are quite mistaken.
The modern day Qun has likely twisted Koslun's teachings and are now a radical threat to all of Thedas.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 12 août 2013 - 03:37 .

[In Exile]

Elfman wrote...
Well then that new military ruler is the new Arishok isn't he? End the Qunari military effectively is what I am saying, as that is how the Qunari interact with the rest of Thedas. Then the Ariqun and Arigena would have to take up that role of nteraction through trade and diplomacy.

The Arishok is the military leader, sure, but the Qun is based on social roles. You can't eliminate the role of the Sten (for example) without forcibly changing the Qun.

And there's no reason to think the Arishok acts unilaterally when it comes to the grand crusade to convert the bas. 

sandalisthemaker wrote...
The last bit says they need to be destroyed before they destroy Thedas.  Kill or be killed.  Your moral high ground does not solve the problem.

Advocate for whatever you want - just be honest with yourself about what you're asking for. If you think genocide is the course of action, own up to it.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I want the Dalish to wipe our little group out one day. Show us how they like it.

It'd be such a delightful change of pace.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

In Exile wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Then its the lesser of two genocides. Either the Qunari culture is destroyed or every other culture in the world is destroyed by the Qunari. I'm not going to say that cultural genocide is a good thing but when there is a society that will never be able to live in peace with any other society ever and will always try to destroy everything that isn't like them then that's a culture that doesn't deserve to exist.

OK? Again, I'm not telling people what to believe, just to own up to what they're advocating. 

I don't care what people call it its what's required. I only began the conversation about genocide because I was under the impression that assumed destroying the Qunari would require destroying the Kossith and causing genocide of a race rather then just the genocide of the culture.

Cultures have come and gone since the beginning of human history ending one to save all others in the world is something that I can get behind every day of the week.

[leaguer of one]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...


They aren't gonna commit genocide, and they aren't even gonna enslave anyone. Please read the Qun manifesto lol

Judging by what we've been shown in DA2 and the comics, you are quite mistaken.
The modern day Qun has likely twisted Koslun's teachings and are now a radical threat to all of Thedas.

Judging by da2 and the comics, people are miss understanding what the Qunari want.
They just want to speard order not enslave.
Added, based on what we know of dai, the people of Thedas is more of a threat to themselves then the Qunari.

[KENNY4753]

The Qunari are just like the Krogan...savage beasts who should be sterilized

[sandalisthemaker]

leaguer of one wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...


They aren't gonna commit genocide, and they aren't even gonna enslave anyone. Please read the Qun manifesto lol

Judging by what we've been shown in DA2 and the comics, you are quite mistaken.
The modern day Qun has likely twisted Koslun's teachings and are now a radical threat to all of Thedas.

Judging by da2 and the comics, people are miss understanding what the Qunari want.
They just want to speard order not enslave.
Added, based on what we know of dai, the people of Thedas is more of a threat to themselves then the Qunari.

Order at what cost?
Anyone who resists will be killed or enslaved. The Qun does not tolerate diversity.
And by enslaved, I mean lobotomized by qamek.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 12 août 2013 - 03:44 .

[AresKeith]

KENNY4753 wrote...

The Qunari are just like the Krogan...savage beasts who should be sterilized

No

[ISpeakTheTruth]

AresKeith wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

The Qunari are just like the Krogan...savage beasts who should be sterilized

No

Agreed sterilizing them wouldn't put an end to the threat because their cancerous beliefs can still spread to others. The only way to truly protect the world from the Qun is to either force the Qun to change or completely destroy them.

[KENNY4753]

the Catalyst's logic makes more sense than the Qun

[Potato Cat]

For an entire race to embrace the Qun, one can imagine they were not so culturally different in the first place. Even the Tal-Vashoth remain culturally Qunari, most of them just seeing it as their new role.

The only way to stop the Qun's aggression is to end the cycle of Arishok, and yes that would be a huge change to the Qun, but one they could survive if it wasn't for the ungateful bas of Thedas.

[sandalisthemaker]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

The Qunari are just like the Krogan...savage beasts who should be sterilized

No

Agreed sterilizing them wouldn't put an end to the threat because their cancerous beliefs can still spread to others. The only way to truly protect the world from the Qun is to either force the Qun to change or completely destroy them.

Unfortunately, beliefs are intangible and can be taken up again by future generations, (that don't have to be Kossith. Besides, we don't know how many of them are back in their hive in Par Vollen. And there could be legions of them across the sea or wherever they originally spawned).
Which means each new crop of fanatics must be put down if and when they try to invade. Much like the blight.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

dc_unoxx wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dc_unoxx wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What we have done to the Qunari are of far bigger impact, than what might have happened to the Dalish.

What have we done to the Qunari?

You could argue that you killed one of their Arishok and the Qunari in Kirkwall

True. But that was hardly unprovoked. 

Neither was them turning on the city, to be honest. We did basically house and foster a extermist chantry group to go out and assassinate quanri converts and memebrs. Kinda makes the whole "they attacked us unprovoked" thing a lot less meaningful. 

[The Flying Grey Warden]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I would love to put down their entire society if I was given the chance. Even more so then the Chantry the Qunari are the greatest threat to freedom in all of Thedas. What they do the mages is immoral, they have a deep need to force everyone that breaths to do what they want them to do or die.

What I find the most horrifying about them is their inability to accept new information. They can't accept any reality where their Qun isn't right where someone else's point of view is the correct one. Their entire society rejects new information and rejects change in any way shape or form. That's why they have to be destroyed is because their Qun is a disease of close mindedness and an unyielding need to destroy everything that isn't them.

This is unfortunatly largely untrue. The qun and qunari do change, they just change for societal good. If new technology or more efficient means are discovered for doing what they do, they change. If new information is presented that doesn't call for a annulment of their view arises, they try to adopt it. They aren't nearly as rejective to change as other cultures of thedas tend to be, dwarves especially.

The problem is that they feel the qun is the best means of brining about change that is the most positive and efficient means for everyone. And feel just as strongly that they are doing the right thing as the freedom callers who want to kill every man, woman, and child of the qun and dance in their blood to celebrate freedom over collective good.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

In Exile wrote...


Coming up with a justification for genocide doesn't stop it from being genocide, just an FYI. 

It's not genocide. It's self defense.

The Kossith race can live on. The Tal-Vashoth could be spared.

You think the ox-men race are just going to denounce the qun over the threat of death? You have a lot to learn. With so many qunari compare to vashoth, you would be commiting genocide. The number of qunari spared would not be enough to carry on a stable population and avoiding genetic inbreeding and eventual steralization. They're death would be long, slow, and unavoidable, like most extinctions that take place.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

When the OP talks about wiping out, does he mean where there will be less than .001 percent of qunari survivors and where we travel to their native homelands to continue wiping them out until there are no more ox-men and their filthy qun ways left?

Or does he mean simply dispatching a squadron, platoon, batallion, or armies worth of qunari but not going after the woman and children civilians in order to make necklaces out of their ears?