11 réponses à ce sujet

[corey_russell]

 So I forged the medium dragonscale armor, hoping my rogue could use it - no he couldn't, he has 30 STR even with the Honnleath items, needs 34. But then it dawned on me - Wynne just recently chose arcane warrior - and she has 36 magic! So she can wear the the silly thing.

What I discovered after putting the armor on her, is that not only is there no fatigue at all due to the matching set, she is actually increasing her mana 6% in combat, because it has negative fatigue...plus the armor itself has a lot of regeneration built in (of her mana) PLUS her liberterian cowl regenerates her mana...

The fire resist comes in handy, as battling Flemeth was our next target! So the Warden (rogue) and Leliana wear Wade's drakescale armors, Shale his flawed fire resist gear and of course Wynne with her Dragonscale armor. Now that Wynne has high fire resist, I put her closer to the dragon (though of course still out of melee range). This team beat Flemeth easily, I'm not even sure we had to use a health poultice as Wynne rarely ran out of mana.

So far, the only problem with this setup is that Wynne's AC (22) is higher than Shale's of 15, so I need to kick out Shale and use higher AC characters like Alistair and Sten so she isn't targeted so much.

Modifié par corey_russell, 12 août 2013 - 05:02 .

[Blazomancer]

Despite what the game would make one believe, the threat difference between robes and medium/heavy/massive is only 10; that is to say, armor type practically has no significance in threat management.

Using Shale's Taunt and Threaten would help in keeping enemies away from Wynne. Alistair or Sten would have to do the same thing regardless of armor rating.

[corey_russell]

Yes, well, Shale did do Taunt and regenerating burst which both cause aggro - but this was a back alley ambush and she got slaughtered - she died shortly after the force field wore off. Only Warden (rogue), Leliana and Wynne left - Wynne had the highest AC at that point and thus got hit with a lot of arrows.

[Blazomancer]

Umm..the armor value has no relation to being targeted, as far as I'm aware.

[corey_russell]

I know I've read in the tips, whether it be loading tips or during tutorial, where they recommend the Warden have a lighter armor because enemies tend to target the heaviest armor party members first. It would be rather silly for BioWare to recommend that if that's not how it worked.

To be a bit more specific, the Warden (rogue) was in the thick of things and theoretically most of the attention should be put on him, but the archers ignored him and shot at Wynne who was much farther back. This doesn't usually happen when she has low AC.

Modifié par corey_russell, 12 août 2013 - 07:35 .

[Urshakk]

corey_russell wrote...

I know I've read in the tips, whether it be loading tips or during tutorial, where they recommend the Warden have a lighter armor because enemies tend to target the heaviest armor party members first.

Right, but now you have Wynne in medium armor, so she will pull more aggro then say a rogue in light armor. On top of that, casting strong healing or direct damage spells will pull even more threat too, so the two combined would certainly make enemies head straight for her. Even when a mage is not wearing medium armor but is nuking away they will tend to draw a lot of enemy attention though.

You could turn Shale into a dedicated tank to help you out. Swap the armor and weapon to nature crystals and max out the 3 abilities with Stoneheart form and turn on Threaten. 

[Blazomancer]

Well, a very large number of things don't work as per the descriptions and tooltips. I'm sure in this case, it is as I mentioned in the first post - 0 for robes/clothing, 5 for light, and 10 for medium/heavy/massive, which is rather meaningless.

Regarding your example, I'm guessing it's damage based threat that she's drawing. A mage can easily draw large amount of threat in a very short time.

[Urshakk]

It only affects your initial threat, it's very small and can be disregarded if you use a threat dump but it is still there at the start.

So in the op's example I assume:

Combat initiates, everyone gets 10 threat on sight, his rogue warden will get +5 more for a total of 15 while Wynne gets +10 more for a total of 20.

He goes in to start melee-fighting the closest opponents (and any other melee companions presumably) but doesn't attack the archers.

Since Wynne has higher threat by 5, the archers target her.

Depends on her tactics set-up / player commands what happens after that. If she attacks with damage spells, just auto-attacks away until a healing tactic kicks in, does nothing or maybe she uses Mind Blast to reset her threat.

If she had +15 threat at the start with robes instead of medium armor, they would be even on threat, thus the archers would of just kept attacking their first target spotted (presumably his rogue or other melee companion) until someone else draws more threat with them.

Of course, this is all moot if you're playing on Nightmare, as your armor only has an affect on Easy-Hard.

Modifié par Urshakk, 13 août 2013 - 12:23 .

[Blazomancer]

^It doesn't even take more than a fraction of a second to make the contribution of armor on initial threat irrelevant. Warriors and melee rogues rushing in close to the enemy are naturally going to have more attention than the mage who remains at the sidelines.

As mentioned by Corey, the warden 'was' in the thick of things after Shale was KO'd, & if Wynne was still getting targetted by the archers (closer to the warden than Wynne), it could only mean that she was drawing aggro by damage dealing. The small amount of initial threat has nothing to do with that. Not to mention that the initial threat would have worn away by then anyway (in 10 seconds for Wynne precisely).

PS: You are also not taking into account that the warden here is using melee weapons.

[keeneaow]

From what i have seen, @Blazomancer is totally right.
I have always been the heaviest armored unit, being an AW,
on top of that i would also always rush down first, and go to great length to be THE target.
In spite of this, the rest of the gang would invariably all be killed almost instantly,
and i would be left with clearing the map so the losers could wake up.
It eventually led me to go solo on every opportunity,
or leave the member that was forced upon me on Hold,
since they were of no use anyway.

[Urshakk]

Oops, I misread, I thought when he said "she got slaughtered" that he was talking about Wynne not Shale. If Wynne is pulling that much threat then she has to be doing damage spells.

[dainbramage]

Blazomancer wrote...

Well, a very large number of things don't work as per the descriptions and tooltips. I'm sure in this case, it is as I mentioned in the first post - 0 for robes/clothing, 5 for light, and 10 for medium/heavy/massive, which is rather meaningless.

Regarding your example, I'm guessing it's damage based threat that she's drawing. A mage can easily draw large amount of threat in a very short time.

Note that the difference between robes and heavy armour is equivalent to standing ~7m further away (about a quarter of most spells cast range). And armour type doesn't make a difference on hard or nightmare. As said already, it makes bugger all difference.