219 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Random Jerkface wrote...

KainD wrote...

Logic chain:

...My priority in life right now is economic stability. Shall I kill someone for their money and be morally justified?

If your economic stability is more important to you than other peoples lives then yes. You are the only one that can judge your own actions. And when you judge the actions of others you judge them as if they were you. 

[mannitt]

On a purely technical standpoint for save imports. Just looking at a DA:O, DA:A, etc...they are large freaking saves. There is so much in there. The DA2 save is actually very small. So there is a lot of information not included. Such as the look of the Warden. Probably mostly that. Graphical information and mostly dialogue and decision information that didn't get transferred into codex information in DA2. So my thoughts that if they do intend to include the Warden and absolutely all the decisions, because I'm quite sure those aren't in DA2 save, then they would have to attempt a type of dual import system. Import both DA2 and DA:O...or final DLC. Then whatever information that is duplicate, erase and whalla...of course as has been mentioned because of the new engine there still is a very high chance that the character still would look a little different. Of course I also think that would in turn then make DA:I saves really freakin' huge. But I think in turn that would allow for any information related to the Warden and Morrigan would all be there. Because got to be honest. None of that is in the DA2 save. "Tis cold in my tent, all alone." "And? What do you want me to do about it?"

[Parmida]

I thought it was supposed to be our Inquisitor's moment.

Damn that Morrigan!

[CronoDragoon]

KainD wrote...
But that's an override. 

For example - you believe that killing is wrong. 
Then you get assaulted, and you have a choice to kill or be killed, and you kill someone out of self defense, because otherwise you would be killed instead. Most people might view that as acceptable, even though killing is not. 

Same with romance - the fact that you are doing it for the person you love ( which is more important ), makes the wrong right in this particular case. 

Of course you can believe that a strong person is the one that hold to his beliefs no matter what, without exceptions and dies in the assault because they believe that killing is always wrong and don't fight back. 

The obvious difference between your two examples is that the first still justifies itself morally, while the other does not.

[KainD]

CronoDragoon wrote...

The obvious difference between your two examples is that the first still justifies itself morally, while the other does not.

The only reason for this is that view your life at a greater value than you view romance, and most people do. 

[CronoDragoon]

KainD wrote...

If your economic stability is more important to you than other peoples lives then yes. You are the only one that can judge your own actions. And when you judge the actions of others you judge them as if they were you. 

By your extreme relativistic view, there is no such thing as a weak or strong person, or a weak or strong justification.

[CronoDragoon]

KainD wrote...
The only reason for this is that view your life at a greater value than you view romance, and most people do. 

No, the reason for that is because self-defense as an exception works when extrapolated to a law of society, whereas romance does not.

[KainD]

CronoDragoon wrote...

By your extreme relativistic view, there is no such thing as a weak or strong person, or a weak or strong justification.

What I view as a strong person is - capable/competent, intelectual, powerful etc. There really are people that are more capable in many ways and plain better than others, and it is not relative. 

[CronoDragoon]

KainD wrote...

What I view as a strong person is - capable/competent, intelectual, powerful etc. There really are people that are more capable in many ways and plain better than others, and it is not relative. 

So a competent, intelligent, physically strong individual that chooses to do nothing all day but drink beer and lay on the couch is a strong person?

[KainD]

CronoDragoon wrote...

KainD wrote...
The only reason for this is that view your life at a greater value than you view romance, and most people do. 

No, the reason for that is because self-defense as an exception works when extrapolated to a law of society, whereas romance does not.

Bold ^. People - society. Yes. 

[KainD]

CronoDragoon wrote...

So a competent, intelligent, physically strong individual that chooses to do nothing all day but drink beer and lay on the couch is a strong person?

Yes. That's my opinion. 

Modifié par KainD, 12 août 2013 - 08:14 .

[crimzontearz]

ok here is my problem with this

The OGB is something....BIG. Something big that directly involves a VERY prominent figure of the upcoming game.

You guys remember what happens when Bioware wants/needs something in their games but some player agency might have screwed with it?

Let me give you few examples...Council 2.0, Wreaw, Geth AI, Rachni queen 2.0, the resurrection of Oghren, the resurrection of Lelliana/retcon of her fate and so on

So.....something tells me that if there is no Old God Baby because the devs so not want to canonize it then there will be something to replace it along the line of The Old God Nephew or something like that....which to me is even worse than a canon.

[ziloe]

David Gaider wrote...

I'm not sure where the "but even if they refuse, the other Grey Wardens of the world may not have the same resolve..." comes from. Speculation on the part of the article writer, perhaps? Regardless, if the player refused the Dark Ritual then it was refused. There is no Old God Baby.

And what about if someone else went through the ritual, like Alistair? Especially considering he had dragon's blood. Would be quite the powerful demon child, no?

[CronoDragoon]

KainD wrote...

Yes. That's my opinion. 

On what basis do you form this opinion?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 août 2013 - 08:25 .

[Fast Jimmy]

crimzontearz wrote...

ok here is my problem with this

The OGB is something....BIG. Something big that directly involves a VERY prominent figure of the upcoming game.

You guys remember what happens when Bioware wants/needs something in their games but some player agency might have screwed with it?

Let me give you few examples...Council 2.0, Wreaw, Geth AI, Rachni queen 2.0, the resurrection of Oghren, the resurrection of Lelliana/retcon of her fate and so on

So.....something tells me that if there is no Old God Baby because the devs so not want to canonize it then there will be something to replace it along the line of The Old God Nephew or something like that....which to me is even worse than a canon.

Agreed.

To date, the imports have been very unsatisfying in terms of being anything more than mentions or name drops.

Any big world change has resulted in very little difference from one game to the next.  If that is the avenue that is going to be continued, I'd rather the imports be dropped and a canon be imposed to tell a stronger story, rather than a weigh-washy middle ground where Bioware dictates certain choices don't matter., while still beig tied with the limitation of having to address the choices regardless. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 12 août 2013 - 08:24 .

[ZeshinX]

Frankly, I've lost most interest in any OGB possibilities. To me, it seems, now, little more than a method for keeping the protag of DAO alive for optional endings (since having only endings that had your GW die would generally annoy the fan base me thinks). It had some interesting potential, which I thought would be nice to explore, but at this point, I'm not interested as much (that said I wouldn't be opposed to that coming up again as a plot point....as long as it has resolution).

I seriously think Morrigan caused the tear in the Veil shown in the trailer. She never struck me as a problem solver....just a problem creator. Her motives will be blunt, but incomplete, which fits her character.

[Blessed Silence]

Uh no offense, and if I am reading this right ...

DA:I won't give a flying you know what about our decision to KILL Morrigan at the mirror? Or this going to be some retcon it was just a "flesh wound"?

Cause I'm going to be kinda annoyed ....

EDIT:  Unless this topic/comment is all about JUST the OGB ritual.  But still, if Morrigan/OGB will be in DA:I that one choice will matter.  Because she was pregnant with the OGB at the time of the DLC, right?

Modifié par Blessed Silence, 12 août 2013 - 08:30 .

[Fast Jimmy]

ziloe wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I'm not sure where the "but even if they refuse, the other Grey Wardens of the world may not have the same resolve..." comes from. Speculation on the part of the article writer, perhaps? Regardless, if the player refused the Dark Ritual then it was refused. There is no Old God Baby.

And what about if someone else went through the ritual, like Alistair? Especially considering he had dragon's blood. Would be quite the powerful demon child, no?

The offer was made directly to the Warden. If the Warden wanted to involve Allistair/Loghain, that is not the Warden refusing the offer. Gaider is saying if the Warden refused and the Ultimate Sacrifice was made (by anyone), then the OGB does not exist through some other loophole.

Which is a waste, because that means that the plot thread will be inherently weaker, simply because it must be small in scale, because there isn't any alternative content that could be offered to players who did make the Sacrifice. Having a dead Warden is much less exciting than having a Living God. 

[dragondreamer]

My female Wardens would consider it the "Old God Nephew" regardless of its origin.  

[Frozenkex]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Uh no offense, and if I am reading this right ...

DA:I won't give a flying you know what about our decision to KILL Morrigan at the mirror? Or this going to be some retcon it was just a "flesh wound"?

Cause I'm going to be kinda annoyed ....

EDIT:  Unless this topic/comment is all about JUST the OGB ritual.  But still, if Morrigan/OGB will be in DA:I that one choice will matter.  Because she was pregnant with the OGB at the time of the DLC, right?

She was not pregnant, and you didnt see her die if you stabbed her, you think she doesnt know healing spells? Yes indeed it was just a fleshwound.

[crimzontearz]

ZeshinX wrote...

Frankly, I've lost most interest in any OGB possibilities. To me, it seems, now, little more than a method for keeping the protag of DAO alive for optional endings (since having only endings that had your GW die would generally annoy the fan base me thinks). It had some interesting potential, which I thought would be nice to explore, but at this point, I'm not interested as much (that said I wouldn't be opposed to that coming up again as a plot point....as long as it has resolution).

I seriously think Morrigan caused the tear in the Veil shown in the trailer. She never struck me as a problem solver....just a problem creator. Her motives will be blunt, but incomplete, which fits her character.

your warden can survive without the dark ritual

[CronoDragoon]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Having a dead Warden is much less exciting than having a Living God. 

But that was the scenario as presented at the time of choice. Clearly the prospect of a Living God worried such and such player more than it interested them.

[KainD]

CronoDragoon wrote...

On what basis do you form this opinion?

You want to get into my head like a psychologist? Alright, I do that myself all the time:

On the basis of nature - some organisms are better suited for survival than others, and they are because of being stronger and more capable. As someone that values romance it is important that time spent with the loved one is as prolonged as possible, thus the loved one would preferably be the one that is very capable in surviving. 


I also got a glimpse of your earlier post so I will reply to that as well as far as I remember it:

It is just that David said that he writes strong characters as someone who has greater values than romance. But strength of the character usually comes in a bundle, as such Morrigan is powerful and very capable of surviving. 
An example of a weak character is Orlanna that was saved by Feynriel. Now she fell in love with Feynriel completely, and all she cared about afterwards was finding him and being with him, but she was weak, as she couldn't fight the bandits on her own, so she had poor survival skills. 

I want to romance someone who is very strong, and has the priority for romance at the same time. I hope that makes sense. 

[mannitt]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Uh no offense, and if I am reading this right ...

DA:I won't give a flying you know what about our decision to KILL Morrigan at the mirror? Or this going to be some retcon it was just a "flesh wound"?

Cause I'm going to be kinda annoyed ....

EDIT:  Unless this topic/comment is all about JUST the OGB ritual.  But still, if Morrigan/OGB will be in DA:I that one choice will matter.  Because she was pregnant with the OGB at the time of the DLC, right?

It never said kill, just attack. Also she fell through the Eluvian so there is the possibility she didn't die. Also she had already birthed the child. She said he was somewhere safe. 

Modifié par mannitt, 12 août 2013 - 08:40 .