219 réponses à ce sujet

[ZeshinX]

crimzontearz wrote...
your warden can survive without the dark ritual

By offering up Alistair/Loghain to make the final blow, sure.  I meant more of a "Happily Ever After" type ending where all in your party live.

[crimzontearz]

dragondreamer wrote...

My female Wardens would consider it the "Old God Nephew" regardless of its origin.  

entirely not the point...


 
Also I now trademark the "Old God Nephew"©

[CronoDragoon]

KainD wrote...

You want to get into my head like a psychologist? Alright, I do that myself all the time:

On the basis of nature - some organisms are better suited for survival than others, and they are because of being stronger and more capable. As someone that values romance it is important that time spent with the loved one is as prolonged as possible, thus the loved one would preferably be the one that is very capable in surviving. 


I also got a glimpse of your earlier post so I will reply to that as well as far as I remember it:

It is just that David said that he writes strong characters as someone who has greater values than romance. But strength of the character usually comes in a bundle, as such Morrigan is powerful and very capable of surviving. 
An example of a weak character is Orlanna that was saved by Feynriel. Now she fell in love with Feynriel completely, and all she cared about afterwards was finding him and being with him, but she was weak, as she couldn't fight the bandits on her own, so she had poor survival skills. 

I want to romance someone who is very strong, and has the priority for romance at the same time. I hope that makes sense. 

David was not using the word strong to mean physically competent or capable. If this was your objection to David's post then it is entirely semantic in nature.

[crimzontearz]

ZeshinX wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
your warden can survive without the dark ritual

By offering up Alistair/Loghain to make the final blow, sure.  I meant more of a "Happily Ever After" type ending where all in your party live.

if Loghain is not in the party by then he dies by your hand or Alistair's before so....might as well let him take the final blow

[Blessed Silence]

mannitt wrote...

Blessed Silence wrote...

Uh no offense, and if I am reading this right ...

DA:I won't give a flying you know what about our decision to KILL Morrigan at the mirror? Or this going to be some retcon it was just a "flesh wound"?

Cause I'm going to be kinda annoyed ....

EDIT:  Unless this topic/comment is all about JUST the OGB ritual.  But still, if Morrigan/OGB will be in DA:I that one choice will matter.  Because she was pregnant with the OGB at the time of the DLC, right?

It never said kill, just attack. Also she fell through the Eluvian so there is the possibility she didn't die. Also she had already birthed the child. She said he was somewhere safe. 

Well ... that is totally lame (and it has been some time since I played it so I don't remember it exactly in terms of what was said).

Kinda disappointed.  I disliked her.  Ah well.

[Taleroth]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Which is a waste, because that means that the plot thread will be inherently weaker, simply because it must be small in scale, because there isn't any alternative content that could be offered to players who did make the Sacrifice. Having a dead Warden is much less exciting than having a Living God. 

Agency necessitates the weakening of plot threads.

Roleplaying is a game of improv, after all. It should be more about creating interesting and creative interactions than interesting stories set in stone.

One man's death can be as powerful a force in the world as any god. As several religions can attest.

Modifié par Taleroth, 12 août 2013 - 08:46 .

[KainD]

CronoDragoon wrote...

David was not using the word strong to mean physically competent or capable. If this was your objection to David's post then it is entirely semantic in nature.

Alright. 

Please tell me an example of a physically weak, incompetent, perhaps not very inteligent but strong female character. 

[Fast Jimmy]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Having a dead Warden is much less exciting than having a Living God. 

But that was the scenario as presented at the time of choice. Clearly the prospect of a Living God worried such and such player more than it interested them.

And how many players would feel slighted that by their hero dying, they got no extra content in DA:I, but those who did the Ritual were treated to a three hour story arc dealing with the OGB and Morrigan?

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 12 août 2013 - 08:49 .

[crimzontearz]

Taleroth wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Which is a waste, because that means that the plot thread will be inherently weaker, simply because it must be small in scale, because there isn't any alternative content that could be offered to players who did make the Sacrifice. Having a dead Warden is much less exciting than having a Living God. 

Agency necessitates the weakening of plot threads.

Roleplaying is a game of improv, after all. It should be more about creating interesting and creative interactions than interesting stories set in stone.

A death can change the world the same as a god. As many religions can attest.

you have obviously never been a Storyteller/Dungeon Master/Narrator

[Fast Jimmy]

KainD wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

David was not using the word strong to mean physically competent or capable. If this was your objection to David's post then it is entirely semantic in nature.

Alright. 

Please tell me an example of a physically weak, incompetent, perhaps not very inteligent but strong female character. 

...Oprah?

[crimzontearz]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

KainD wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

David was not using the word strong to mean physically competent or capable. If this was your objection to David's post then it is entirely semantic in nature.

Alright. 

Please tell me an example of a physically weak, incompetent, perhaps not very inteligent but strong female character. 

...Oprah?

BA-ZING

[Taleroth]

crimzontearz wrote...

you have obviously never been a Storyteller/Dungeon Master/Narrator

If you think the job is one of railroading, I'd say that of you.

[crimzontearz]

Taleroth wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

you have obviously never been a Storyteller/Dungeon Master/Narrator

If you think the job is one of railroading, I'd say that of you.

complete railroading? No. But some cornerstones of your plots are set in stone


 
Hence the parodistic meme we had in my group "tripfallsdies"

[jillabender]

KainD wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

David was not using the word strong to mean physically competent or capable. If this was your objection to David's post then it is entirely semantic in nature.

Alright. 

Please tell me an example of a physically weak, incompetent, perhaps not very inteligent but strong female character.

Personally, I'm a bit tired of the idea that every "strong" female character needs to be physically strong and able to kick butt, or even emotionally strong.

While it's great to see female characters who are strong people in a variety of ways, it can also be great to see interesting and flawed female characters who aren't what most people would consider strong people, but who are strong characters in the sense of having strong characterization and writing.

Modifié par jillabender, 12 août 2013 - 09:08 .

[Urazz]

crimzontearz wrote...

ok here is my problem with this

The OGB is something....BIG. Something big that directly involves a VERY prominent figure of the upcoming game.

You guys remember what happens when Bioware wants/needs something in their games but some player agency might have screwed with it?

Let me give you few examples...Council 2.0, Wreaw, Geth AI, Rachni queen 2.0, the resurrection of Oghren, the resurrection of Lelliana/retcon of her fate and so on

So.....something tells me that if there is no Old God Baby because the devs so not want to canonize it then there will be something to replace it along the line of The Old God Nephew or something like that....which to me is even worse than a canon.

Actually, they can just make the OGB an optional companion in a future Dragon Age game as an example of the OGB making quite the splash if they so desire.  That way he would have an effect on Thedas like they were saying but it would be on something that would happen regardless due to the player being the main one doing it.

Modifié par Urazz, 12 août 2013 - 09:04 .

[KainD]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

...Oprah?

Something deep inside tells me that you are correct. 

Yet I wonder what do you consider to be a strong person? And what does David consider to be a strong person? 

[Ryzaki]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

While it's entirely possible that Morrigan performed the ritual with someone else without the Warden's knowledge, if that happened then no one should die when the Archdemon is killed.

But someone does.

It might've given my warden a reason for wandering off though. Alas. Nope.

[Taleroth]

crimzontearz wrote...

 complete railroading? No. But some cornerstones of your plots are set in stone

Disagree. Being able to revise and let go of your supposed cornerstones is a strength of any good writer, let alone a good DM who must have a willingness to let go and the wit or foresight to come up with something new.

[KainD]

jillabender wrote...

...but who are strong characters in the sense of having have strong characterization and writing.

Can you elaborate on this? 

[Fast Jimmy]

Taleroth wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

you have obviously never been a Storyteller/Dungeon Master/Narrator

If you think the job is one of railroading, I'd say that of you.

Setting of a canon is, by definition, not railroading. It is saying "there were multiple outcomes, but this is what happened as far as this story is concerned." 

The current incarnations of the Save Import system is Railraoding - no matter what, the world is pretty much exactly the same, despite the gravity choices are presented with, aside from a cameo, Codex entry or one-line dialogue change b

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly? I hope so. It's too good a plot thread to be abandoned in so many characters' playthroughs.

Forcing a story on people who did not make that choice is stupid.

[crimzontearz]

Taleroth wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

 complete railroading? No. But some cornerstones of your plots are set in stone

Disagree. Being able to revise and let go of your supposed cornerstones is a strength of any good writer, let alone a good DM who must have a willingness to let go and the wit or foresight to come up with something new.

 
Yeah...no thanks, I'll take (even for myself) a modicum of railroading in favor of decent set pieces as opposed to 100% improv.


 
Not judging your style mind you, just my personal preference.

[jillabender]

KainD wrote...

jillabender wrote...

...but who are strong characters in the sense of having have strong characterization and writing.

Can you elaborate on this? 

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough. My intention wasn't to get into the question of what exactly strong characterization entails - what I was trying to get across was that I think there's sometimes a fear when presenting female characters that they won't be well received unless they're the kind of characters who can be seen as strong people and good role models. And I think that can be limiting - it can lead to creating so-called "strong" female characters who are all badass in the same cookie-cutter way. They may be physically and/or emotionally strong, but that doesn't necessarily make them interesting.

In short, it's great to see female characters who are physically and/or emotionally strong, when they're also complex and believable characters. But I also think that characters can be interesting precisely because of the ways in which they're not especially emotionally strong, and I appreciate it when writers give themselves the freedom to explore that with female characters.

I think that BioWare has done an excellent job with its female characters, especially in the Dragon Age series. And I think that's partly because they focused more on making them interesting people than on making them badass. I love the fact that some of them are badass, but I wouldn't enjoy them as much if being "strong" and badass was all they had going on (and fortunately, it's not).

Modifié par jillabender, 12 août 2013 - 09:25 .

[crimzontearz]

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly? I hope so. It's too good a plot thread to be abandoned in so many characters' playthroughs.

Forcing a story on people who did not make that choice is stupid.

and that why Inkeep saying if Bioware just Willy Nilly goes on retconning the outcome of some choices and/or rendering them pointless then I'd rather not be given the choice to begin with