140 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunvi]

Annomander wrote...

Same deal with no incendiary ammo.

Platinum atlas.

120 FPS: atlas lost 10 bars of shield and 1 bar of armour to a single reegar clip

60 fps: atlas lost 10 bars of shield

30 fps: atlas lost 9 bars of shield

15 fps: atlas lost 2 bars of shield

nm I misread 15 as 5 >.<

Modifié par Dunvi, 12 août 2013 - 08:44 .

[BridgeBurner]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Confirmed. The reegar is indeed a frame rate dependent weapon, due to it's fire rate probably.

Used fraps to hard cap my FPS and tested versus atlas armour, using the same set up (lolcendiary).

120 FPS; reegar consistently burned through 10 bars of shield and 7 bars of armour in one clip, with little to no variance.

60 FPS; reegar burned through 10 bars of shield and 5 bars of armour in one clip, with little to no variance.

30 FPS: Reegar burned through 9 bars of shield in one clip, again with no variance.

15 FPS: Reegar burned through a measly 2 bars of shield in a single clip.

Maybe it's incendiary ammo glitch which is framerate dependent and not the reegar?

If that were the case, wouldn't each FPS do the same damage to shields, since there isn't a power in play to convert the incendiary ammo damage into something that can damage shields?

Even with no incendiary, the damage of the reegar is not consistent at different frame rates.

The 15 fps result is an obvious one; frame rates that low are bound to cause issues, and it seems to be with the reegar, there is a "breaking" point.

When you can 1 clip a boss' shields with the reegar, then your incendiary will kick in.

Using the setup I chose (no cloak) you cannot 1clip the shields on console (or at 30 fps) thus leading to drastically reduced TTK, as you miss around 11k worth of incendiary ammo armour damage.

Dunvi wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Same deal with no incendiary ammo.

Platinum atlas.

120 FPS: atlas lost 10 bars of shield and 1 bar of armour to a single reegar clip

60 fps: atlas lost 10 bars of shield

30 fps: atlas lost 9 bars of shield

15 fps: atlas lost 2 bars of shield

If
the atlas only has 10 bars of shield, then that's looking like
potentially a linear relationship with FPS, depending on how bad armor
damage is (too lazy to draw up the graph right now). Do primes have more
shields? We should probably fire up the memory watcher and get actual
values, the "bars" on the HUD aren't exactly precise.

True, but the bars represent enough to confirm that weapon fire rate is indeed frame rate dependent, but doesn't seem to be as severe until you dip below 30, then the fire rate rapidly drops off.

Similar to other UE games, it probably calculates your fire rate / your frame rate.





16 rounds per second at 120 fps gives you all the FPS you need to calculate those shots, as your 120 fps will practically always match up to the time stamps on the shots due to normalization.

At 30 FPS, the likelihood of the gun simply skipping a shot because the increased interval between each frame and causing them simply to not match up increases.

The interval between each shot stays consistent; 0.016 or 16 miliseconds.

The interval between each calculating frame (or logic thread computation, as it striclty is) increases as your frame rate drops, leading to the likelihood of the game simply skipping that shot.

At 15 fps, you have ~65 milisecond gaps in your logic thread's processes, hence why you are losing well over 75% of your RPM, as there simply is not a frame close enough to the time stamp of each shot to calculate them.

At 120 fps, you have 8.33 milisecond gaps in your logic thread's processes, less than half of the actual interval between each shot.

Similar to Unreal tournament, the game will register shots if it has a frame generated which matches up to the timestamp that the shot was fired in. No match = no shot.

Modifié par Annomander, 12 août 2013 - 09:00 .

[Dunvi]

@ishy i forgot

@anno, the hud bars are not precise or accurate. We should try and get actual values, find out what the mathematical relationship is.

Modifié par Dunvi, 12 août 2013 - 08:45 .

[Malanek]

Interesting. Is lag also likely to effect high fire rates in the same way?

[Dunvi]

Malanek999 wrote...

Interesting. Is lag also likely to effect high fire rates in the same way?

Only if the lag is hitting your framerates (v. possible).

[Ledgend1221]

This could be very interesting.

It could very well mean that the console Reegar is not the highest DPS weapon...

[BridgeBurner]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

This could be very interesting.

It could very well mean that the console Reegar is not the highest DPS weapon...

Don't fret yourself, it still is the highest burst DPS weapon by a significant margin, it's just not as ridiculous as it is on PC.

Modifié par Annomander, 12 août 2013 - 08:58 .

[Chromatix]

Does that frame rate thing affect PPR too? Csr? GPSMG? In other words, any other high-rof weapons. 

Modifié par Chromatix, 12 août 2013 - 09:01 .

[Dunvi]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

This could be very interesting.

It could very well mean that the console Reegar is not the highest DPS weapon...

Which is why we need actual numbers. If the gun was calibrated at 30fps and does the listed damage there, it's still astronomically OP on XBox at least.

I suppose we could guesstimate given that we know the health values of the enemies, but I'd rather get the memory values since we can.

[Dunvi]

Chromatix wrote...

Does that frame rate thing affect PPR too? Csr? GPSMG? In other words, any other high-rof weapons. 

Possible, but speculation is better left until we know what's causing it with Reegar. If it's related to the gun firing multiple pellets pepr ammo, after all, the same bug won't apply to those guns.

[megabeast37215]

Yay I was right! I'm not stupid!

Woooooohoooooo!

[oO Stryfe Oo]

DHKany wrote...

something to do with inferior frames probably.

This. I know that at certain FPS, certain guns shoot blanks. Maybe the Reegar is no different.

Edit: Oh...should've read the rest of the thread. At least I was close.

Modifié par oO Stryfe Oo, 12 août 2013 - 09:13 .

[BridgeBurner]

Actually, I'm tempted to start with the typhoon and the spitfire first.

Both have a listed fire rate of 650, yet the spitfire seemed to only shoot 600 RPM according to peddro's tests. Providing peddro was playing at 60fps, I think it may well be the good old fashioned unreal engine tick rate biting us in the ass.

I'm assuming the engine is calculating shots per frame, which would give you 10.8333 shots per second @60 fps. I'm also guessing that the unreal engine will still round this down to 10 shots per second and normalise it across 60 fps to give 1 shot every 6 frames roughly.

Fixed grammar fails.

Modifié par Annomander, 12 août 2013 - 09:31 .

[Tybo]

Dunvi wrote...

Also, the problem may definitely be framerate dependent. I haven't looked at the Reegar yet (I was too scared) but depending on how the damage is calculated, it very well may be losing shots simply because there's too many to process for a single frame (just in terms of number of pellets to calculate). Basically, if it's not combining pellets within a single frame (which I doubt it is doing) then at half the framerate it's calculating 2ce as many bullet impacts - too many may simply just be getting lost or forgotten or overwritten or what-have-you - I don't know the engine well enough yet to say for sure.

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but when using the admittedly not super precise timer functions on MHS, shotguns will show all pellets hitting at +0 ms, vaguely indicating they are being processed on the same frame.

[Dunvi]

tyhw wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Also, the problem may definitely be framerate dependent. I haven't looked at the Reegar yet (I was too scared) but depending on how the damage is calculated, it very well may be losing shots simply because there's too many to process for a single frame (just in terms of number of pellets to calculate). Basically, if it's not combining pellets within a single frame (which I doubt it is doing) then at half the framerate it's calculating 2ce as many bullet impacts - too many may simply just be getting lost or forgotten or overwritten or what-have-you - I don't know the engine well enough yet to say for sure.

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but when using the admittedly not super precise timer functions on MHS, shotguns will show all pellets hitting at +0 ms, vaguely indicating they are being processed on the same frame.

8 pellets * number of ammo consumed per frame?

how does the timer function work?

i'll take a look. tonight. maybe.

[landylan]

Has no one tested how high the RoF has to be for the frame rates to affect it?

[MaxCrushmore]

pppfh! You PC/Xboxers have it easy .. fps my butt ...

On PS3 we can actually experience spf ... makes combat interesting "Oh no! 1 frame per 5 seconds .. aagh!!"

[Dunvi]

landylan wrote...

Has no one tested how high the RoF has to be for the frame rates to affect it?

it's a relationship - one RoF will have a different framerate trigger than another. and yes, i think we have, although this was a while back, before we had some of the tools we have now.

[Arctican]

Wow, everything makes sense now. And here I thought I was terrible at using the Reegar.

[BridgeBurner]

MaxCrushmore wrote...

pppfh! You PC/Xboxers have it easy .. fps my butt ...

On PS3 we can actually experience spf ... makes combat interesting "Oh no! 1 frame per 5 seconds .. aagh!!"

It's a trade off. The reegar might deal more damage at higher frame rates, but then again, so do the enemies...



This is the variable that makes it more "fun" to play versus AI at 60 fps than at 30 fps... the AI is updating player locations every 0.33 seconds instead of every 0.66 seconds, making the enemy twice as responsive and twice as accurate when at 60 fps than at 30 fps.

Modifié par Annomander, 12 août 2013 - 10:32 .

[capn233]

^Now with red boxes.

[BridgeBurner]

capn233 wrote...

^Now with red boxes.

I realised that not everyone would link the 20.0 float variable with meaning every 20th frame.

Plus, I f*ckin' love Redboxes.

[capn233]

Annomander wrote...

capn233 wrote...

^Now with red boxes.

I realised that not everyone would link the 20.0 float variable with meaning every 20th frame.

Plus, I f*ckin' love Redboxes.

Yeah it is a beauty.

[Tybo]

Dunvi wrote...

tyhw wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Also, the problem may definitely be framerate dependent. I haven't looked at the Reegar yet (I was too scared) but depending on how the damage is calculated, it very well may be losing shots simply because there's too many to process for a single frame (just in terms of number of pellets to calculate). Basically, if it's not combining pellets within a single frame (which I doubt it is doing) then at half the framerate it's calculating 2ce as many bullet impacts - too many may simply just be getting lost or forgotten or overwritten or what-have-you - I don't know the engine well enough yet to say for sure.

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but when using the admittedly not super precise timer functions on MHS, shotguns will show all pellets hitting at +0 ms, vaguely indicating they are being processed on the same frame.

8 pellets * number of ammo consumed per frame?

how does the timer function work?

i'll take a look. tonight. maybe.

Timer function I've used counts ms between writes to the memory address.  I would expect that, at 60 fps and one pellet per frame, there would be a 16 ms delay roughly, which I'm pretty sure the timer can discern.  Lemme go check for some old data logs

[MaxCrushmore]

Annomander wrote...

capn233 wrote...

^Now with red boxes.

I realised that not everyone would link the 20.0 float variable with meaning every 20th frame.

Plus, I f*ckin' love Redboxes.

Sure, I crack a joke and there you go throwin down some technical whoopass ...

Highlighted: hehe that means two things