115 réponses à ce sujet

[Belahzur]

JiM_13 wrote...

The Spitfire's RPM / overall performance and Harrier's cover / standing recoil switch also come to mind.

Definitely would be nice. I can get behind that.

Maybe Anno and Cinnoman can find fixes/changes they can agree on, or make a thread and ask for suggestions for coalesced fixes? I have the thread for the Harrier fix if anyone wants it.

[Dunvi]

Problem variable isn't marked config, we can't fix it with the coalesced. Patience.

Modifié par Dunvi, 13 août 2013 - 04:31 .

[Turian Master Race]

Element 0 wrote...

RTK2Lional wrote...

Strange, I can get 75 shotgun kills and 20 headshots shooting in the past ... perfectly viable on marksman kits without any hitscan power, and I play it off host.

 

Yeah, you can do that. But that doesn't mean it's suppose to be that way. It's not like the Javelin where the delay makes sense and is predictable. Or with a Graal or Kishock where the travel time is predictable.  

The Javelin's delay is much longer. The crusader's delay is so small IMO (!!!), that for all practical reasons it is non existent.   

If this is indeed a bug I wish this could the worst bug in ME3 multiplayer ...

[Ledgend1221]

RTK2Lional wrote...

Element 0 wrote...

RTK2Lional wrote...

Strange, I can get 75 shotgun kills and 20 headshots shooting in the past ... perfectly viable on marksman kits without any hitscan power, and I play it off host.

 

Yeah, you can do that. But that doesn't mean it's suppose to be that way. It's not like the Javelin where the delay makes sense and is predictable. Or with a Graal or Kishock where the travel time is predictable.  

The Javelin's delay is much longer. The crusader's delay is so small IMO (!!!), that for all practical reasons it is non existent.   

If this is indeed a bug I wish this could the worst bug in ME3 multiplayer ...

It's affected by FPS, so it's much greater on those peesees.

[Dunvi]

RTK2Lional wrote...

Element 0 wrote...

RTK2Lional wrote...

Strange, I can get 75 shotgun kills and 20 headshots shooting in the past ... perfectly viable on marksman kits without any hitscan power, and I play it off host.

 

Yeah, you can do that. But that doesn't mean it's suppose to be that way. It's not like the Javelin where the delay makes sense and is predictable. Or with a Graal or Kishock where the travel time is predictable.  

The Javelin's delay is much longer. The crusader's delay is so small IMO (!!!), that for all practical reasons it is non existent.   

If this is indeed a bug I wish this could the worst bug in ME3 multiplayer ...

The Javelin's delay is a charge function, which means it fires according to where you aim when it goes off. The Crusader saves the location you were aiming at and fires there after its delay. It's dumb.

I'm not completely positive that I found the fix, btw, just that I think I found the problem variable. We'll see.

[Caratinoid]

RTK2Lional wrote...

Element 0 wrote...

RTK2Lional wrote...

Strange, I can get 75 shotgun kills and 20 headshots shooting in the past ... perfectly viable on marksman kits without any hitscan power, and I play it off host.

 

Yeah, you can do that. But that doesn't mean it's suppose to be that way. It's not like the Javelin where the delay makes sense and is predictable. Or with a Graal or Kishock where the travel time is predictable.  

The Javelin's delay is much longer. The crusader's delay is so small IMO (!!!), that for all practical reasons it is non existent.   

If this is indeed a bug I wish this could the worst bug in ME3 multiplayer ...

If by all practical reasons you mean shooting at stationary or frozen targets then yes, it's freaking perfect.

[Dunvi]

Element 0 wrote...

RTK2Lional wrote...

Element 0 wrote...

RTK2Lional wrote...

Strange, I can get 75 shotgun kills and 20 headshots shooting in the past ... perfectly viable on marksman kits without any hitscan power, and I play it off host.

 

Yeah, you can do that. But that doesn't mean it's suppose to be that way. It's not like the Javelin where the delay makes sense and is predictable. Or with a Graal or Kishock where the travel time is predictable.  

The Javelin's delay is much longer. The crusader's delay is so small IMO (!!!), that for all practical reasons it is non existent.   

If this is indeed a bug I wish this could the worst bug in ME3 multiplayer ...

 

I'm not talking about the firing delay, I'm talking about the hitting delay. Javelin might have and 0.25 second charge up timer, but it will hit where you aim. Crusader fires instantly, but it will hit where your crosshairs were 0.2 seconds ago. So it shoots to the past and it's hard to adjust for, especially when firing quickly or when the enemy moves a lot or in CQC. That's why staggering powers are so good with Crusader. 

that's not actually true, I'll write ups a post explaining shot gun firing mechanics a little bit when I have time, I have a meeting or two this morning though

[capn233]

Belahzur wrote...

I have the thread for the Harrier fix if anyone wants it.

Swapping the Harrier recoil values doesn't actually work that well.  It still behaves oddly mainly because it has bizarre variables all over the place.

Also not sure what thread you are referencing, but when I tested the fix proposed in one, it behaved very whonky, mainly because the recoil fade was causing your cursor to move way after you stop firing it.

The other problem with the Harrier is if you mod the recoil scales you need to keep in mind that the recoilyaw variable is pretty high on it (to go with all the other bizarre values), so if you don't fix that you will get a nice side to side recoil.

I screwed around with this gun for SP for a while.

Modifié par capn233, 13 août 2013 - 05:30 .

[Alijah Green]

RTK2Lional wrote...

Strange, I can get 75 shotgun kills and 20 headshots shooting in the past ... perfectly viable on marksman kits without any hitscan power, and I play it off host.

you will have to excuse her, she still needs to learn how 2 play

[Musketeer1970]

I use it all the time and like it.

[PyroByte]

There is an easy and quick fix for this:

Swap the crusader with claymore or raider and the delay will disappear, instantly

[Belahzur]

capn233 wrote...

Belahzur wrote...

I have the thread for the Harrier fix if anyone wants it.

Swapping the Harrier recoil values doesn't actually work that well.  It still behaves oddly mainly because it has bizarre variables all over the place.

Also not sure what thread you are referencing, but when I tested the fix proposed in one, it behaved very whonky, mainly because the recoil fade was causing your cursor to move way after you stop firing it.

The other problem with the Harrier is if you mod the recoil scales you need to keep in mind that the recoilyaw variable is pretty high on it (to go with all the other bizarre values), so if you don't fix that you will get a nice side to side recoil.

I screwed around with this gun for SP for a while.

http://social.biowar...ndex/16647311/1

I followed the numbers posted there ^

After changing them I did notice the Harrier would behave like the beam weapons on a drell firing does, it starts shooting the floor, or the recoil doesn't come back inline fast enough, I had to stop firing to let the gun come back to where it should be when not firing. Yes the variable are wonky, so I just 0'd them out as suggested and managed to replicate the video.

That allows the Harrier to fire normally when hip firing/ADS and with the added stability when firing from cover. Sniper accuracy.

Modifié par Belahzur, 13 août 2013 - 06:01 .

[PyroByte]

Element 0 wrote...

PyroByte wrote...

There is an easy and quick fix for this:

Swap the crusader with claymore or raider and the delay will disappear, instantly

 

I use the Claymore a lot. But I want a fixed Crusader too. 

It's a lost cause. Mabye in ME4.

I'ld rather see the community come up with a working lag compensation than wasting time and effort on trying to make a poor shotgun a little less disappointing.

[capn233]

Belahzur wrote...

http://social.biowar...ndex/16647311/1

I followed the numbers posted there ^

After changing them I did notice the Harrier would behave like the beam weapons on a drell firing does, it starts shooting the floor, or the recoil doesn't come back inline fast enough, I had to stop firing to let the gun come back to where it should be when not firing. Yes the variable are wonky, so I just 0'd them out as suggested and managed to replicate the video.

That was the one.

I run this in SP (original values in parenthesis):
Recoil 0.15 (4.5)
Recoil fade speed 0.1 (3)
recoilyawfrequency 0.5 (60)
recoilyawscale 0.3 (0.2)
recoilzoomfadespeed 0.35 (0.95)
Zoom recoil 0.65 (1.5)

I might tweak it some more though.

Modifié par capn233, 13 août 2013 - 06:50 .

[Belahzur]

capn233 wrote...

Belahzur wrote...

http://social.biowar...ndex/16647311/1

I followed the numbers posted there ^

After changing them I did notice the Harrier would behave like the beam weapons on a drell firing does, it starts shooting the floor, or the recoil doesn't come back inline fast enough, I had to stop firing to let the gun come back to where it should be when not firing. Yes the variable are wonky, so I just 0'd them out as suggested and managed to replicate the video.

That was the one.  Originals are in parenthesis.

I run this in SP:
Recoil 0.15 (4.5)
Recoil fade speed 0.1 (3)
recoilyawfrequency 0.5 (60)
recoilyawscale 0.3 (0.2)
recoilzoomfadespeed 0.35 (0.95)
Zoom recoil 0.65 (1.5)

I might tweak it some more though.

Can't speak for single player, never bought the weapon packs, but I assume it behaves the same way. Just change recoil to 0.45 and 0.0 for the rest and it should fix it.

[Saints]

PyroByte wrote...

Element 0 wrote...

PyroByte wrote...

There is an easy and quick fix for this:

Swap the crusader with claymore or raider and the delay will disappear, instantly

 

I use the Claymore a lot. But I want a fixed Crusader too. 

It's a lost cause. Mabye in ME4.

I'ld rather see the community come up with a working lag compensation than wasting time and effort on trying to make a poor shotgun a little less disappointing.

Implies that it's a bad gun in the first place? It's a nice gun.

[PyroByte]

Saints944 wrote...

Implies that it's a bad gun in the first place? It's a nice gun.

Claymore, Raider out perform it damage wise. It suffers from shieldgate but can't stagger like other projectile shotguns (Graal, GPS) and it's way to heavy to use on anything but gun classes (who are better off with claymore or raider).

I don't see the point of it or how it is anything else than a mediocre shotgun.

[Dunvi]

Okay.

So most of the non-shotgun non-projectile (read: normal) weapons in the game are true hitscan. When the game registers a "fire" action, it immediately extrapolates the impact location, and then calls the appropriate bullet impact functionality at that location. Cool. Fun.

Shotguns are weird. Instead of doing the impact logic immediately and inline, it has it all factored out into a separate function. Where it would be in the other weapons, shotguns save your current aim values, and then set a timer, for a future time of the maximum of 0.001, and LatentFireDelay/#pellets.

Why it does this? We're not entirely sure. Seems to me that they're trying to simulate a slower projectile speed without using actual projectiles. But for all I know, maybe it's actually an optimization by introducing asynchronicity. I don't know, I was drunk last night, I didn't look quite closely enough to see if there was a reason for it. The important part is that value, LatentFireDelay. It's defined in the base shotgun class as 0.1.

At 60 fps with 8 pellets, 0.1/8 is still less than a single frame. At 30 fps, it's not even half a frame. And besides, since the pellets spread, the effects of the firing delay is mitigated obvious.

With the Crusader, they forgot about this weird, pellet-count based math. So you don't get your shot until at least 0.1 seconds later.

[Dunvi]

PyroByte wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

Implies that it's a bad gun in the first place? It's a nice gun.

Claymore, Raider out perform it damage wise. It suffers from shieldgate but can't stagger like other projectile shotguns (Graal, GPS) and it's way to heavy to use on anything but gun classes (who are better off with claymore or raider).

I don't see the point of it or how it is anything else than a mediocre shotgun.

It's actually a pretty nice gun against armored bosses, especially if you're trying to conserve AP ammo or something. It's actually a gun that did not benefit from the HVB - while of course you should take the HVB on it, the HVB on any other shotgun trivializes the Crusader's talking points. The shotgun HVB broke what was arguably one of their most successfully balancing features, that you really have 3 mods you want to pick and you can only take 2.

Modifié par Dunvi, 13 août 2013 - 06:35 .

[Dunvi]

Element 0 wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Okay.

So most of the non-shotgun non-projectile (read: normal) weapons in the game are true hitscan. When the game registers a "fire" action, it immediately extrapolates the impact location, and then calls the appropriate bullet impact functionality at that location. Cool. Fun.

Shotguns are weird. Instead of doing the impact logic immediately and inline, it has it all factored out into a separate function. Where it would be in the other weapons, shotguns save your current aim values, and then set a timer, for a future time of the maximum of 0.001, and LatentFireDelay/#pellets.

Why it does this? We're not entirely sure. Seems to me that they're trying to simulate a slower projectile speed without using actual projectiles. But for all I know, maybe it's actually an optimization by introducing asynchronicity. I don't know, I was drunk last night, I didn't look quite closely enough to see if there was a reason for it. The important part is that value, LatentFireDelay. It's defined in the base shotgun class as 0.1.

At 60 fps with 8 pellets, 0.1/8 is still less than a single frame. At 30 fps, it's not even half a frame. And besides, since the pellets spread, the effects of the firing delay is mitigated obvious.

With the Crusader, they forgot about this weird, pellet-count based math. So you don't get your shot until at least 0.1 seconds later.

 

And that's why the Crusader is more popular on consoles. Because the delay is smaller. 

The delay is not smaller, unless there's a platform dependent difference in the code that I can't see (It's possible, but unlikely). The delay is less perceptable, though, since you're looking at 3-4 frames, and slower overall play (less precision in enemy movements and aim-assist friction).