91 réponses à ce sujet

[Morty Smith]

Is it groundhog day again?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Kroitz wrote...

Is it groundhog day again?

That's the thing about groundhog day, never ends.

[Ravensword]

David7204 wrote...

I can't help but be irritated that she's still painting the diversity of complaints about the ending as a good thing. As if it's a complex masterpiece that can be interpreted a thousand different ways.

No. No, it's not a 'cool thing' at all. The fact that players were so confused is not 'cool.'

It's not interpreted a thousand different ways because it's a masterpiece. It's not interpreted a thousand different ways because the developers did anything right. It's interpreted a thousand different ways because it's a mess. Because such a poor job was done, and because a lot of people were and are struggling to make sense of something they find repulsive and nonsensical.

People were and are complaining about a lot of problems because the ending, including the Extended Cut, has a lot of problems and failed to live up to various explicit and implict promises by BioWare.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[aznjoez]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Personally I'm just glad Bioware now views the response as overwhelmingly (or at least largely) negative.

Now?

She said in the interview they seen the negative responses before the game even released officially lol.

[Iakus]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Personally I'm just glad Bioware now views the response as overwhelmingly (or at least largely) negative.

Sadly, there still seems to be little sign they understand why the responses were so negative

And then there's still the "EC fixed everything" mindset.

[sadkouz]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Don't know how to take the fact people are still fuzzing over the ending.

Interesting video, though.

[Nashiktal]

David7204 wrote...

I can't help but be irritated that she's still painting the diversity of complaints about the ending as a good thing. As if it's a complex masterpiece that can be interpreted a thousand different ways.

No. No, it's not a 'cool thing' at all. The fact that players were so confused is not 'cool.'

It's not interpreted a thousand different ways because it's a masterpiece. It's not interpreted a thousand different ways because the developers did anything right. It's interpreted a thousand different ways because it's a mess. Because such a poor job was done, and because a lot of people were and are struggling to make sense of something they find repulsive and nonsensical.

People were and are complaining about a lot of problems because the ending, including the Extended Cut, has a lot of problems and failed to live up to various explicit and implict promises by BioWare.

Well said.

Whether or not you liked the ending... I can't help but feel that Bioware just did not know how to handle a trilogy of this scale. They over promised to their fans, underdelivered on said promises, and it felt like they had no idea how to handle the outcry. 

Maybe they just didn't know how to handle the scale? Maybe they were not used to working under a large publisher like EA? I just don't know.

I still have no idea what Casey Hudson was thinking when he promised there would not be an A.B,C ending. Was he that out of touch with the game development or was he trolling all of us?

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Don't know how to take the fact people are still fuzzing over the ending.

Well it was one of the most unique events in gaming history. As far as I know the largest fan fallout of any game (the only thing like it was the outcry to Fallout 3's ending... for different reasons) and had an actual official response from bioware via DLC and fan interaction.

I'm well past any emotional responnse from the ending personally. I've moved on. I'm done with Mass Effect at least for now, and the games are buried away in my game shelf somwhere. It had it's effect (where for me, the negative subdued or erased my enjoyment of the good) but I am no longer angry at Bioware. I just have a different view of them. They were my favorite developers and I was a major fan. Now i'm just a cynical consumer. I wait for reviews by other fans, I don't preorder their games, and I often wait for game of the year editions so I get all the DLC Bioware always releases (and I buy them at discounts)

Good for me and OK for bioware I guess.


Still this was a major event in gaming and bioware history. It will be talked about long from now and as a result of the fallout bioware's games will forever be compared to the disaster. Even if they somehow make another trilogy that does everything right and is hailed as the best games ever... They will still have this event in their history that WILL be talked about. Even if those talking have no personal stake or experience in the matter. Its that influential and important to the idustry at large.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 14 août 2013 - 02:56 .

[dorktainian]

iakus wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Personally I'm just glad Bioware now views the response as overwhelmingly (or at least largely) negative.

Sadly, there still seems to be little sign they understand why the responses were so negative

And then there's still the "EC fixed everything" mindset.

  the EC raised more questions than it answered.

[Ruadh]

40 things wrong with the ending . . . and that was the short list? HA

[wrdnshprd]

StreetMagic wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...


its just a panel like at any other convention.. guess what, if you are going to a bioware panel at a convention.. WHICH IS OPEN TO ANYONE IN ATTENDANCE.. you are most likely a fan of bioware and their games.  is it really that out of reach that you are going to be "enthusiests"?  if you were at a convention, would YOU attend a panel where you had a dislike for a company or no interest in their game that they are presenting?  just a thought.

It sounds like you're making the same point I made.

not really.. my point was.. if you wanted, you could have attended that same panel.. all you would have had to have done was attend the convention.  its not  "exclusive" to a select group of fans.  if you would have attended the convention, you could have gone to the panel.  same with ANY convention bioware attends.

as an example, i attended pax prime in seattle during swtor development and was able to play a demo of the game, get a couple of exclusive t-shirts, and attend their swtor panel.  know what i had to do to get access?  attend pax and put up with standing in line.  THATS IT.    know what else?  they had Mass Effect 3 there as well.. if i wanted to, i could have played that game too.  and again, all i needed to do was stand in line.

Modifié par wrdnshprd, 14 août 2013 - 04:01 .

[Iakus]

Going to a convention can run you hundreds of dollars in travel and lodging expenses (depending on where it is), in addition to the cost to get into the convention itself. Plus arrangements to take time off of work or school.

Not everyone can swing that.

[AlexMBrennan]

Last convention I went to (OSCON) was $1000 plus a $1000 flight, so that's some seriously cheap stuff

[Iakus]

Well, I'm assuming conventions that are comparatively close by, as in driving rather than flying distances. And registering months in advance to get deals on hotels.

[wrdnshprd]

EntropicAngel wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

its just a panel like at any other convention.. guess what, if you are going to a bioware panel at a convention.. WHICH IS OPEN TO ANYONE IN ATTENDANCE.. you are most likely a fan of bioware and their games.  is it really that out of reach that you are going to be "enthusiests"?  if you were at a convention, would YOU attend a panel where you had a dislike for a company or no interest in their game that they are presenting?  just a thought.

Check out this video



at 45:30 or so. That's at a gaming convention where, presumably, there are only "enthusiasts" there.

no.  that is san diego comic-con.. the largest comic con in the US.  you, and anybody else could attend that convention and go to the panels.  they are not  "exclusive".  yes, you will have to pick and choose what panels you attend because the lines are RIDICULOUS, but thats about it.  which just reinforces my point.. would YOU attend a panel where you had no interest in the game or the developer? i know i wouldnt.  but i also know that if i WANTED to attend the panel, i could.

[Khayness]

That's not really how I remember it.

I remember that awesome "plz buy DLCs" sign as the final scene of a franchise beloved for 5 years, Artistic Integrity, "Hell yes proud!" from the PR, and eternal silence from Mac and Casey.

Good times.

[Modius Prime]

The problem with the game was more than just the ending (streamlining of the game), but that is way too much for BioWare due to budget concerns, and I think that the ending was, more or less, the tipping point for fans and gamers alike. Honestly. I believe the biggest problem with the game was the fact that it did not have the development time necessary to make the game that it was hyped to be. I still believe that BioWare's biggest mistake was getting acquired by EA; I think it took things like the Sims, EA's stock value drop, and Mass Effect 3's ending fiasco to finally have EA give BioWare what they needed for Dragon Age Inquisition: more development time. They're taking the time to listen to the fans and moderators are actively responding to the concerns of the public, so I think that, in a sense, that they have learned from their mistakes. I think it is really disappointing for BioWare to even have a situation like this come up - the ending; everything! - and I hope that Mass Effect 3 can be remembered as more than a 'mistake' by BioWare fans and the company itself, because the characters and the universe that they created deserve more than all of the negative feedback that they were bombarded by; I don't want to remember the trilogy for the ending, but I want to remember it for the story that BioWare told and the characters that some people grew to love. Ultimately, I think that everything said - whether negative or positive - was out of love for the game. No fan, or casual gamer, would go to the lengths that were done in criticizing BioWare, so I think BioWare should be proud that they have such avid fans that care so much about their games.

[Cyberfrog81]

iakus wrote...

Sadly, there still seems to be little sign they understand why the responses were so negative

And then there's still the "EC fixed everything" mindset.

Sounds like I need not waste my time with this video.

[wrdnshprd]

iakus wrote...

Going to a convention can run you hundreds of dollars in travel and lodging expenses (depending on where it is), in addition to the cost to get into the convention itself. Plus arrangements to take time off of work or school.

Not everyone can swing that.

none of that is on bioware though.  as an individual, you have the ability to attend the panel as long as you go to the convention.. which, excluding cons like E3 (which are few and far between), you CAN attend as long as you can afford it.  thats the ONLY restriction. there is nothing "exclusive" about it.  end of story.

anyway..  in the end, i thought Jessica handled herself well during launch, and handled herself well in that interview.

edit:  why did i bring up the "exclusive" in the first place?  because of this post:

I don't know if it says a lot. Who goes to these type of functions? I've
been a gamer for almost 30 years, but never had the privilege to be at
anything like that. Maybe I would if I lived closer or someone invited
me, but in any case, it seems like a lot of these shows are full of
insiders and major enthusiasts.

my point was, its usually just full of fans of the game just like you and me.  lets be honest.. WE are "enthusiasts" just as much as that audience is.. we have a bioware forum account and are posting and talking about the game on a bioware forum.. do you really think we are the majority??  i would hope not. 

Modifié par wrdnshprd, 14 août 2013 - 10:48 .

[Femlob]

Khayness wrote...

That's not really how I remember it.

I remember that awesome "plz buy DLCs" sign as the final scene of a franchise beloved for 5 years, Artistic Integrity, "Hell yes proud!" from the PR, and eternal silence from Mac and Casey.

Good times.

QFT.

[Mark of the Dragon]

David7204 wrote...

I can't help but be irritated that she's still painting the diversity of complaints about the ending as a good thing. As if it's a complex masterpiece that can be interpreted a thousand different ways.

No. No, it's not a 'cool thing' at all. The fact that players were so confused is not 'cool.'

It's not interpreted a thousand different ways because it's a masterpiece. It's not interpreted a thousand different ways because the developers did anything right. It's interpreted a thousand different ways because it's a mess. Because such a poor job was done, and because a lot of people were and are struggling to make sense of something they find repulsive and nonsensical.

People were and are complaining about a lot of problems because the ending, including the Extended Cut, has a lot of problems and failed to live up to various explicit and implict promises by BioWare.

I dont feel like this myself. I think she meant the random theories fans created were cool. For example, the indoctrination theory. The fact that people had thought something so detailed to explain the ending was awesome.

If anything she comes off as a dedicated community manager. I mean all the time she spent observing feedback is proof of that dedication. I mean I havent sent 1,000 tweets total on my twitter. Sending that many in one day is crazy.

However in the end I didnt the ME endings were that bad. I can see why some people were upset though. I think most my problems were solved with the extended cut. Could they have been better? YES. But I can respect Bioware trying to do something different. My only hope is that Bioware learned from their mistake and give their future games endings the time they need. Endings can totally destroy a great game. Im sure they realize that now.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

aznjoez wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Personally I'm just glad Bioware now views the response as overwhelmingly (or at least largely) negative.

Now?

She said in the interview they seen the negative responses before the game even released officially lol.

She saw the first victims of what would become a pandemic.

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Don't know how to take the fact people are still fuzzing over the ending.

Time isn't alchohol.  It won't make something that's ugly look prettier the more you get of it.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 15 août 2013 - 01:36 .

[voteDC]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Don't know how to take the fact people are still fuzzing over the ending.

For the same reason people still discuss Sherlock Holmes, because they really enjoy the characters and stories.

People wouldn't still be discussing the endings if they hadn't enjoyed the rest of the franchise.