8 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Allow the gamers to assume control of their Warden or Hawke:  This shouldn't be a problem at all because it was done in DAO and DA2 when we took over Morrigan and Varric.  Morrigan's part was more detailed, complete with converstation options, so more like her scenario.   Do this for The Inquisition. This allows some time for answering questions, having meaningful interaction, gameplay, some (possibly) more decision making, and, most importantly, closure. This would settle the big issue of gamers being concerned that Bioware would take over their characters personalities.


Allow gamers to customize their warden and hawk: Why would this be a problem?  Gamers can't complain that Bioware ruined their Warden's or Hawke's looks. And why would they complain if we have to customize our warden or hawke again?  You can give them a differnt hair style, cooler armor, tatoos, better looking mustaches. I don't think I ever met someone who plays rpg video games and says, I hate it when we have to customize our characters.  

edit: revised edit:  If  you don't want the Warden and Hawke scenes at all, just skip it .  In the character creator, after you made your "Inquisitor", it can then ask: RECREATE YOUR HAWK AND WARDEN?.  Yes means yes.  NO means no.  And then there'll be no Warden or Hawke at all for those that chose that option.


Use the characters in a useful, important way.  No meaningless cameo. Having them stand around and ramble like Alistair or Zevern is lame.  What role could a level 23-28 character play in Inquisition?  Gee, I don't know?  How about using all that badassness and creating havoc through the enemy lines.  Remember the awe of playing Hawke in the prolouge where he was overpowered?  Well, imagine it the same with your Warden or Hawke somewhere in the middle of the game or towards the end, except it would be real.

No NPCs:  The main gripe that everyone seems to agree to, whether they want the return of their Warden/Hawke or not, is Bioware would ruin their character that they cherish.  So turning them into an NPC where Bioware will be giving them dialouge and acting independently from the gamer would be a big mistake as far as fan acceptance goes.

We should Have this because of the Need for real closure:  People have a strong connection with their characters and need more than passing mention about their ends.  In proportion, if a sibling, parent or spouse past away, would you be content with reading a blurp in your local obituary?  Or having some stranger mention that they are dead and how they died?  Heck, even having a breakup with your girl or boyfriend needs more than just a brief mention.This is the "Closure" that everyone is talking about. When people's relationships ends there is the process of closure that they need to go through.  At least those whose Wardens had died are correct that they received closure.  They had a pretty good eulogy given in their honor.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 03:18 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I have to say at this point, that this reminds me about a year and a half ago when I was pushing for Morrigan to return and was receiving just as much negativity on the matter. And now here we are, with an article coming out that quotes David Gaider as saying that essentially, Inquisition is Morrigan's story.

What?

(Emphasis mine)

[Allan Schumacher]

A paraphrase on what Inquisition is "essentially" in regards to the article about Morrigan and her story to tell. Not a suggestion that she is the main protagonist or antagonist. But at the same time, it was stated that she wasn't suppose to have some meaningless cameo, she's suppose to be more involved in this game's plot.

You said that Inquisition is Morrigan's story. Do you haev the link/reference handy?

[Allan Schumacher]

Inquisition is her chance to return to glory.........Morrigan’s fate is being teased for Dragon Age: Inquisition, and the anticipation of her role is keeping fans on the edge of their seats...... Although, she won’t be cast as one of the followers, her role is important. “It’s not a cameo. She plays a significant role,” Gaider teases. .....They’ve been building up her return for some time now. “The kernel of Inquisition’s story we knew from about midway through Dragon Age: Origins. The story has been in the making for a very long time,” Laidlaw says. “The story of Inquisition is [Morrigan’s] moment, which is a good way to think about it.”

So if Morrigan's is not essentially involved in the plot at all, and if you can cut all her parts out and not replace it with anything and the Inquisition's story is uneffected. like you could with Flemeth's in DA2, then there is an expectation out there that I (maybe others) need to curtail. Using Morrigan's appearance in the trailer probably didn't help.

Is Morrigan's role non-essentail to Inquisiton?

I think you're reading a bit too much into the comment.

Morrigan plays a non-trivial part, but I wouldn't say the upcoming game is Morrigan's story. It's "Morrigan's moment" in that you get to see some of the results (aka loose ends and whatnot) for the types of things she's looking on doing, but there's swaths of the game where she's not a part of.

Be careful letting your imagination run with stuff that you really want (and then cascading that to other stuff that you really want) because on some level you'll end up creating a situation where "This isn't what my imagination told me I was promised." Inquisition follows the Inquisitor, not Morrigan.

[Allan Schumacher]

Her part is non-essential, like Flemeth's? Wow. That's not what I was expecting.

At this point I'm not actually sure what you're expecting, since you're doing a great job of misreading my posts (non-trivial is not non-essential), and I don't even know where Flemeth comes into play with your commentary, since I didn't mention her in my post.

No sale. I not looking for a different stand alone adventure like DA2. I prefer my series to have more continuity and familiarity.

Fair enough. Expect any future Dragon Age games to be somewhat distanced from the previous games as well. As I said in the other thread, you are letting your expectations and hopes run rather rampant at this point, and it's all run into a place where I wouldn't be convinced that even if we did detail out the stuff in your OP, that it still wouldn't fall short for you.

It's literally caused you to suggest multiple character generation sequences, complete with recording the voice overs for the variety of different voices you could use in DAO, while creating some level of significant content so that it's not just a cameo (and ideally not just someone that could have been done by anyone), complete with a plethora of toggles and assorted options for a gameplay sequence that may not even be that long, all the while opening up your explanations for wanting these factors with stuff like "This shouldn't be a problem."


I understand that the Warden is very important to you. But the idea was never to make a game along the lines of say, Mass Effect, where we follow a single character along several stories. I can understand some need for closure (for both characters, really), especially in light of DA2 mentioning a disappearance (or things like Witch Hunt), and maybe the writers have cooked something up to try to address that stuff (I honestly don't know all the details of the story since I don't really work on the narrative specficially).

At this point though, if there isn't anything very concrete, for your own sense of sanity I encourage you to not get too hopeful about a lot of in depth stuff with the Warden, since there's a very good chance you'll end up disappointed if you just let your hopes and imaginations run wild without remaining somewhat grounded.

If the idea was to communicate that you'd really like content with the Warden and Hawke, then yes you've definitely done that. While the time extension does afford us the opportunity to add new things and change some existing stuff, the priority for the narrative will still be for trying to have it be a good story for the Inquisitor, much like how BioWare did for the Warden, lest the Inquisitor never have the opportunity to also be a character you really enjoy.


So yeah, if it's no sale, then that's fine. I think we can both agree, though, that if it came down to no sale vs. DAI failing to deliver on what you would like to see from the Warden (or even making it worse), at least you won't have wasted your money which would make the sting that much more painful for you.

[Allan Schumacher]

A post I can agree with, while like Jerry, I would very much like to see The Warden again, I do try to keep myself to the ground as best I can, simply because if you raise the bar too high, you will always end up disappointed, pretty much as you said in different words.

Personally I wouldn't find it a disaster if my Warden isn't in it at all, provided that it's explained before hand why he/she isn't in it, something like ''Listen up, The Warden will not be in DA:I, we know we kind of teased you guys with the Leliana thing in DA2, but plans have changed that didn't include The Warden, so that's that.'' and provided that The Inquisitor's story is good enough to make up for it.

I agree with this. The Warden and Hawke may or may not show up in DAI, and its certainly clear that some people really want them back, and it's also fair that BioWare painted themselves into this corner of expectation for some people, especially with Hawke. But I am very leery of the notion of having the past characters steal the focus from the main game without it just being some sort of hackneyed "Look it's you playing as your old character!" sequence that can still utterly bomb and make people pissed.


It is fun to bring Morrigan back because she's an interesting character, it fits well with where we're taking the narrative, and frankly she has a strong following. When I first saw the E3 trailer internally, I was all "Oooo, this will have a fun reaction! " Yes, not everyone will like it. Which is always going to be the case.

So going full circle, whatever decisions get made with respect to the Warden and Hawke, not everyone is going to like it. Given that those characters were the past players, this makes me much more guarded and cautionary.

[Allan Schumacher]

Yes, we could have done the scene without Flemeth. That we didn't mostly just says "We wanted her to be the one because reasons (presumably because there's a degree of intrigue that she's saved not only the Warden, but Hawke as well."

For some, that it's Flemeth doing the rescuing IS what makes it more interesting. It's not just some random mage (unless you haven't played DAO). As such, it IS still Flemeth that saves the player, and as such played a part in Hawke's story.

If the issue is distilling down the requirements for what it means to be "essential" be careful that your consideration doesn't effectively make it applicable to any and all characters. For a lot of things in both games, we could have gone with a completely different character.


In any case, equating what Morrigan's involvement in the story is to Flemeth's is a conclusion drawn to by someone else.  It needn't be accurate.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 18 août 2013 - 01:27 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Reidby, not only this, but you're also forgetting Flemeth gave Hawke a
particular item in this scene, an amulet with her essence in it. It can
be inferred Flemeth believed Morrigan and (possibly) the Warden would
track her down and kill her, so how else would she survive other than
giving a particular trinket to a particular Champion Flemeth saw destiny
in? To Flemeth's own character it was a vital scene.

Indeed.

@Allan. Don't get me wrong. I think it's interesting she appeared and I
liked her new look. I just think that she's too important to be wasted
on a fleeting cameo like that.

If we're talking about Morrigan, I would agree.  If we're talking about Flemeth, I'm less inclined to agree.  Flemeth's role in DAO is very similar to DA2, and aside from the part where you meet her, isn't featured all that much in the game aside from Morrigan's personal quest.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 18 août 2013 - 01:32 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Where would we be if I didn't single handly take on the task of begging for multi-races?

Adding player races back into the game.

Sort of like this post where I seem to be the only one who wants and is suggesting my Warden to reappear again to close some open plot points from Origins and Witch Hunt.

Well let me assure you that your position, and even the concept behind this thread, is not unique. Many of the suggestions themselves are not unique. You're not the first to suggest having chargen for the past PCs. You're not the first to say that a cameo would not be sufficient, and you're not the first to say that you'd like them to play key roles.


I remember you being very upset at the announcement of a lack of player races. And I have been very deliberate in focusing more on the Warden than Hawke since I know full well that the Warden is what is so important to you.

But everytime I see you bring up how you're fighting the good fight for the benefit of others, and it has happened a number of times now, I start to think you might actually believe it which is a great way to express lane yourself right into the bin marked "unreasonable." Which will only serve to undermine your efforts to shape DAI into the game Jerrybnsn wants.

And my Flemeth example is right there in my original question to him, so I have no idea why he asked where did Flemeth come from and he didn't mention her, when it was I that did:

Busted. I didn't actually read that entire post. I just quoted the whole thing. Which actually reinforces my previous point.