406 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I have to say at this point, that this reminds me about a year and a half ago when I was pushing for Morrigan to return and was receiving just as much negativity on the matter. And now here we are, with an article coming out that quotes David Gaider as saying that essentially, Inquisition is Morrigan's story.

What?

(Emphasis mine)

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

There's no way to do it without fan rage or dissapointment. 

And hopefully I addressed the majority of those issued that could cause fan rage or disappointment of the former protagonists making an appearance. From how they would appear, what interaction in the game plot they would have, actual conversations and possibly some more choices, how they would look, how you control them and not bioware as npc, how you can use a default character instead to keep the headcanon, etc., etc.,
 

[Jerrybnsn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

.....saying that essentially, Inquisition is Morrigan's story.

What?

(Emphasis mine)

A paraphrase on what Inquisition is "essentially" in regards to the article about Morrigan and her story to tell.  Not a suggestion that she is the main protagonist or antagonist.  But at the same time, it was stated that she wasn't suppose to have some meaningless cameo, she's suppose to be more involved in this game's plot.

If we have another Flemeth cameo-like appearance with Morrigan and that's it, that would be very disappointing.

[Wulfram]

There's a big middle ground between it being "Morrigan's story" and it just being a cameo. Like her stuff could be a significant branch of quests but still only part of the bigger story. Or she could have a recurring role helping out the inquisitor.

[Allan Schumacher]

A paraphrase on what Inquisition is "essentially" in regards to the article about Morrigan and her story to tell. Not a suggestion that she is the main protagonist or antagonist. But at the same time, it was stated that she wasn't suppose to have some meaningless cameo, she's suppose to be more involved in this game's plot.

You said that Inquisition is Morrigan's story. Do you haev the link/reference handy?

[Jerrybnsn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

You said that Inquisition is Morrigan's story. Do you haev the link/reference handy?

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/08/12/dragon-age-inquisition-s-morrigan-past-and-present.aspx

 Inquisition is her chance to return to glory.........Morrigan’s fate is being teased for Dragon Age: Inquisition, and the anticipation of her role is keeping fans on the edge of their seats...... Although, she won’t be cast as one of the followers, her role is important. “It’s not a cameo. She plays a significant role,” Gaider teases. .....They’ve been building up her return for some time now. “The kernel of Inquisition’s story we knew from about midway through Dragon Age: Origins. The story has been in the making for a very long time,” Laidlaw says. “The story of Inquisition is [Morrigan’s] moment, which is a good way to think about it.”  

So if Morrigan's is not essentially involved in the plot at all, and if you can cut all her parts out and not replace it with anything and the Inquisition's story is uneffected. like you could with Flemeth's in DA2, then there is an expectation out there that I (maybe others) need to curtail.  Using Morrigan's appearance in the trailer probably didn't help.

Is Morrigan's role non-essentail to Inquisiton?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 10:50 .

[BioFan (Official)]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A paraphrase on what Inquisition is "essentially" in regards to the article about Morrigan and her story to tell. Not a suggestion that she is the main protagonist or antagonist. But at the same time, it was stated that she wasn't suppose to have some meaningless cameo, she's suppose to be more involved in this game's plot.

You said that Inquisition is Morrigan's story. Do you haev the link/reference handy?

All that's been said is that she'll play a big part, she's not just a minor cameo. 

[Jerrybnsn]

Wulfram wrote...

There's a big middle ground between it being "Morrigan's story" and it just being a cameo. Like her stuff could be a significant branch of quests but still only part of the bigger story. Or she could have a recurring role helping out the inquisitor.

Very true, but I did say in "essence" as in her spirit, her agenda, her whatever, is essential to the Inquisition plotline. Because if she isn't, and she's just a "quest giver" and not a prominent catalyst that drives the story or effects the story, than I'll retract my statement and say "Inquisition is not essentially Morrigan's story.  Any npc can play her part in the story."

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 10:59 .

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

There's no way to do it without fan rage or dissapointment. DA:A caused rage and dissapointment just by forcing the Warden to go back and work for the GWs.

I wasn't on this site back when Awakenings was released.  I wasn't aware that there was fan rage over the plot of assuming control over the establishment of the Grey Wardens at Vigil's Keep.  Couldn't they just have not played the game if they didn't want their warden being involved anymore?

Here's some of the concerns and rage I did find in the Awakenings forum.  Granted I only went through some thirty pages of threads out of 150, but these seem to be the reoccuring issues with the game.  I found no fan rage against going back to work for the GWs, and that's not to say it's not out there, just that it doesn't seem to be a reoccuring issue like these:

Wish for the Orleasian Warden to have a voice with an Orleasian accent.
Disappointment that the LI isn't along with you for the story.
Wish to be able to recruit more than just six followers; make it a real Grey Warden den.
Rage over no romances!
Disappointment over no Morrigan and OGB.
Astonishment over starting the game naked followed by rage over dlc imports.
Rage, rage and more rage about the Ultimate Sacrifice import and having to play a live warden.
Rage over devs response to having to play a live warden in Ultimate Sacrific import.
Rage over bugs and game freezes. (I can understand this one.  During my second playthrough with one of my wardens, everytime I loaded up the game, it came up "error".  this lasted for over four months before it was fixed).
Rage over no statue for Ultimate Sacrifice import.
Rage over lack of conversation options.
Disappointment in abrupt ending.

[Black Jimmy]

DLC where you play as them that takes place during the events of the main game.
Finished them first then merging the saves of new game of the main game results in extra quests and a possible appearance of one or the other based on your choices in said DLC.
Bioware fans will explode at them regardless, but giving us control will result in less moaning from us.

[esper]

I don't want my characters back because they mean a lot to me.

The best emotion they could conjure up in my was indifference, because the characters claiming to be Hawke and the Hero of Fereldan so obviously is not (At least not the ones belong in the worlds I played in) and thus they would mean obsolutely nothing to me.

The worst emotion they could conjure up was getting me to rage quiet because their fate has been handled in such an atroicious way that I do not want to even get the least bit attached to my new PC in the fear that it was handled the same way.

Between the two extremes is every degree of irriation, and then we are not even getting into the fact that a former PC return would steal focus from the new PC:

[Magdalena11]

No LI? When did this happen? I thought in a DG interview he said that romance would play as much a part of DA:I as it had in the other two games.

Edit:  Sorry this is off-topic - I reacted to what else had been posted.

Modifié par Magdalena11, 16 août 2013 - 12:26 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Reidbynature wrote...

I'm also leaning towards a separate CC if people want to import their Warden and/or Hawke. I expect with the new engine it would probably be best. Plus I imagine it may have more options available than the previous two games CC which I think some might appreciate some new details that weren't previously available.

In Dragon's Dogma, you create two characters at the start.  One for your protagonist and one for the pawn that follows you.  I don't see why you couldn't just pop out three characters.   More customizating characters the better.

[Jerrybnsn]

esper wrote...

Between the two extremes is every degree of irriation, and then we are not even getting into the fact that a former PC return would steal focus from the new PC:

No more stealing focus than the time you took control over Leliana and Morrigan when they rescued the Warden. Or when you took Morrigan into the fade and had conversations.  Or when you played Sten defending the gates in Denerim while the Warden was after the archdemon.  Or when Varric single handly cleared out the same mansion that was cleared out over and over again in DA2.

[Miltialdes]

Do you know in DAO, you cannot invite in your group Leilanna if you want? Do you know if you want don't invite Sten?etc...

If someone won't such charachter or other, ok he is free, if Bioware is abble to include in the story Hawke and The Warden optionally let's other player enjoy that, and keep your vision of the Theldas for yourself, A lot of players has not the same vision than your. I accept that you won't the return of the two heroes and in other topic some don't want the return the old companions but news. Let's Bioware tell the story and we will know in one year what will happen.

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

esper wrote...

Between the two extremes is every degree of irriation, and then we are not even getting into the fact that a former PC return would steal focus from the new PC:

No more stealing focus than the time you took control over Leliana and Morrigan when they rescued the Warden. Or when you took Morrigan into the fade and had conversations.  Or when you played Sten defending the gates in Denerim while the Warden was after the archdemon.  Or when Varric single handly cleared out the same mansion that was cleared out over and over again in DA2.

Yeah. Those were a part of my group for da:o. That is completely different. They belonged with that PC.

There is a major different between intergrated member of the group and former PC: The last one is a spot light stealer.

[Jerrybnsn]

Miltialdes wrote...

Do you know in DAO, you cannot invite in your group Leilanna if you want? Do you know if you want don't invite Sten?etc...

If someone won't such charachter or other, ok he is free, if Bioware is abble to include in the story Hawke and The Warden optionally let's other player enjoy that, and keep your vision of the Theldas for yourself, A lot of players has not the same vision than your. I accept that you won't the return of the two heroes and in other topic some don't want the return the old companions but news. Let's Bioware tell the story and we will know in one year what will happen.

Which is why I suggested using default characters in the character creater that would not be Hawke or Warden, and have them play those role instead without any meaningful appearances.  It'll be an option.  In the example of Sten, if you have too many characters still with you, you'll have to choose who will defend the gates and eventually play it out.  However, from everything I've been reading so far, Bioware has plans for Hawke (who is alive for everybody) and a Warden (whether yours or the Orleasian), so these good folks who would rather not have anything to do with them again may have bigger issues than with what I'm suggesting.

[Fast Jimmy]

Which is why I suggested using default characters in the character creater that would not be Hawke or Warden, and have them play those role instead without any meaningful appearances. It'll be an option. In the example of Sten, if you have too many characters still with you, you'll have to choose who will defend the gates and eventually play it out. However, from everything I've been reading so far, Bioware has plans for Hawke (who is alive for everybody) and a Warden (whether yours or the Orleasian), so these good folks who would rather not have anything to do with them again may have bigger issues than with what I'm suggesting.

Then again, those plans could be killing those characters off screen in the opening credits.

[Jerrybnsn]

esper wrote...

There is a major different between intergrated member of the group and former PC: The last one is a spot light stealer.

Considering the average gamer will play between seventy to eighty hours of gameplay their first time through (if it is on the Origins' level), would an hour or so of content with two former pcs that doesn't necessarly effect the plot, really steal the spot light from your current Inquisitor who you'll be spending the other sixty-eight to seventy-eight hours with?

Do you have that little faith in your next character or the storyline that we'll receive? And you are controling all three of them?  Do  you suffer from multiple personality issues that are against each other?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 01:21 .

[LucianaIV]

scyphozoa wrote...

No thanks, this seems like it would be a tremendous amount of resources and effort in order to make two characters appear that I don't really want to see.

Furthermore, even if Bioware did invest all the resources to make both characters playable, voiced and customizable, people would still complain about anything else they want to. If it is not about the voice or the customization, it will just move on to a new thing to complain about, like the limited amount of time you get to play as that character, the limited amount of things you can say or do, or the fact that at some point, the player will have to give up control of these characters and return to the actual protagonist. Then you will just get a pissing match between 3 groups of people who each want to "support" their preferred protagonist.

That is the inherent problem with these 2 characters being involved at all, there is no right way to do it. There are ways that will make some happy and others angry. And frankly,  I don't think those characters are really that important. They had their entire game's worth of content, now the game world itself will reflect the importance of these characters and their actions, I don't need a cameo for that.

And what if both The Warden and Hawke are actually crucial to The Inquisitor's success? What if he/she actually needs the help of both of them to succeed in his/her own mission?

We all speak of cameos and ''stealing focus'', yet we don't even know a thing about how DA:I will go, for all we know The Warden and Hawke's individual adventures were only the first events leading up to the crisis in DA:I in which both would be needed again, and remember, even with ultimate sacrifice, there is still a Warden, if your DAO Warden died, then the DA A Warden Commander was an Orlesian, which will be the one to have disappeared then.

Any case, I believe Bioware isn't just pulling things out of their ass or making the whole ''searching for Hawke and The Warden'' thing a big deal just because they thought it funny to troll their fanbase.

Modifié par LucianaIV, 16 août 2013 - 01:17 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...
However, from everything I've been reading so far, Bioware has plans for Hawke (who is alive for everybody) and a Warden (whether yours or the Orleasian), so these good folks who would rather not have anything to do with them again may have bigger issues than with what I'm suggesting.

Then again, those plans could be killing those characters off screen in the opening credits.

They could be dead already.
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No Lieutenant, your Warden is already dead.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 01:19 .

[Toasted Llama]

esper wrote...

I don't want my characters back because they mean a lot to me.

The best emotion they could conjure up in my was indifference, because the characters claiming to be Hawke and the Hero of Fereldan so obviously is not (At least not the ones belong in the worlds I played in) and thus they would mean obsolutely nothing to me.

The worst emotion they could conjure up was getting me to rage quiet because their fate has been handled in such an atroicious way that I do not want to even get the least bit attached to my new PC in the fear that it was handled the same way.

Between the two extremes is every degree of irriation, and then we are not even getting into the fact that a former PC return would steal focus from the new PC:

Well, sorry to tell you, but as has been said earlier, your characters are technically Bioware's NPCs again after you've finished the game. (Unless someone has stated otherwise in the past few pages that I didn't bother to read, lol)

Bioware has the right and the ability to do with them as they please. And you can always imagen by yourself that things happened otherwise or never even happened in the first place. (Considering how you imagened how your Warden/Hawke would behave, I think you can also imagen how they would've behaved otherwise or wouldn't appear at all if Bioware made them return.)

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

esper wrote...

There is a major different between intergrated member of the group and former PC: The last one is a spot light stealer.

Considering the average gamer will play between seventy to eighty hours of gameplay their first time through (if it is on the Origins' level), would an hour or so of content with two former pcs that doesn't necessarly effect the plot, really steal the spot light from your current Inquisitor who you'll be spending the other sixty-eight to seventy-eight hours with?

Do you have that little faith in your next character or the storyline that we'll receive?

There is no way to better kill a new story than to re introduce the last major character. Espically if they are there for pure fan service. As your 'not necessary effect the plot' thing suggest.

It ruins the returnings characters development, it makes it harder for the players to symphatise with the new PC because they have a stronger connection to the old, due to the fact that players have a pre-connection with the old PC, but only still building the new connection with the new PC.

Frankly if the former PC return for an hour or so content that doesn't necessary effect the plot, I think that the story line deserve me having little faith in it, since the writers obviously didn't think it could stand on its own.

[LucianaIV]

esper wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

esper wrote...

There is a major different between intergrated member of the group and former PC: The last one is a spot light stealer.

Considering the average gamer will play between seventy to eighty hours of gameplay their first time through (if it is on the Origins' level), would an hour or so of content with two former pcs that doesn't necessarly effect the plot, really steal the spot light from your current Inquisitor who you'll be spending the other sixty-eight to seventy-eight hours with?

Do you have that little faith in your next character or the storyline that we'll receive?

There is no way to better kill a new story than to re introduce the last major character. Espically if they are there for pure fan service. As your 'not necessary effect the plot' thing suggest.

It ruins the returnings characters development, it makes it harder for the players to symphatise with the new PC because they have a stronger connection to the old, due to the fact that players have a pre-connection with the old PC, but only still building the new connection with the new PC.

Frankly if the former PC return for an hour or so content that doesn't necessary effect the plot, I think that the story line deserve me having little faith in it, since the writers obviously didn't think it could stand on its own.

Or as I said, the return of the old PCs could have been planned storywise for years now, again, we know nothing of how The Inquisitor is to go about his/her mission or who he/she will need.