406 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

Morrigan isn't the big focus of the game.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Jerrybnsn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Her part is non-essential, like Flemeth's? Wow. That's not what I was expecting.

At this point I'm not actually sure what you're expecting, since you're doing a great job of misreading my posts (non-trivial is not non-essential), and I don't even know where Flemeth comes into play with your commentary, since I didn't mention her in my post.

If I miss read you then,  please, reiterate if she is essential to the plot or not.  Meaning essential defined; as the upmost importance to the plot, can't do without. As I said, if you stated the game wasn't in essence about her, meaning her role isn't needed for the Inquisition plot, then she is non-essential. 

Because when I said in "essence" this is Morrigan's story; meaning she is indispensible to it, she has to be in it, (because, yes that is what I believed)  and I even further question you, if you took her out of the game completely would it effect the plot.  So if she's not essential, than why are you getting mad at me for saying she is non-essential?

You seem to disagree with me saying that she is essential at one point and then disagree with me saying she is non-essential the next.  Because, yes, I want her to be a major part of the game.  But am I expecting too much from that.  Since you're the one who is trying to convey that I'm wrong about Morrigan,

Where Flemeth comes in because she was non-essential to the DA2 plot.  Which I was expecting Morrigan to have more of a role than she did.  Am I wrong on that.  I do want to know what the story is about before I make a decision to purchase it.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 17 août 2013 - 06:18 .

[Miltialdes]

Savber100 wrote:
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Morrigan isn't the big focus of the game.
Why is this so hard to understand?
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Because it is the story of Teldas and each charachters evolved evolve and will evolve do the event of the story. She is a character in this world. We know she has a plan. She can be the instigator of the event. She is connected via her morther to Varric and she is connected with the Warden and due to the oracle of her mother and herself about the chaos is coming, she is an important character.Let's Bioware tell the story and we will see.
For me you can take by default the appearance of Hawke and The warden. Like some actors play a role ( James Bond is an example)

[Taleroth]

Savber100 wrote...

Morrigan isn't the big focus of the game.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Claudia Black should be the focus of every game.

[Jerrybnsn]

Savber100 wrote...

Morrigan isn't the big focus of the game.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Can you answer the question on whether Morrigan is essential to the DAI plot?    That's what I want to understand.

[daveliam]

It sounds to me as if Morrigan will play a major role in DA:I, but isn't the protagonist. This isn't her story, but she plays a substantial role in it. At least that's how I read Allan's statement.

I would interpret this to mean that she is going to be involved directly in at least one of the major plot lines for the game. However, I wouldn't expect her to be a companion or love interest. I'm thinking similar to Arl Eamon in DA:O. He was an important NPC, but DA:O certainly wasn't his story.

[Jerrybnsn]

daveliam wrote...

It sounds to me as if Morrigan will play a major role in DA:I, but isn't the protagonist. This isn't her story, but she plays a substantial role in it. At least that's how I read Allan's statement.

I would interpret this to mean that she is going to be involved directly in at least one of the major plot lines for the game. However, I wouldn't expect her to be a companion or love interest. I'm thinking similar to Arl Eamon in DA:O. He was an important NPC, but DA:O certainly wasn't his story.

This how it basically all started:

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

.....saying that essentially, Inquisition is Morrigan's story.

What?

(Emphasis mine)

A paraphrase on what Inquisition is "essentially" in regards to the article about Morrigan and her story to tell.  Not a suggestion that she is the main protagonist or antagonist.  But at the same time, it was stated that she wasn't suppose to have some meaningless cameo, she's suppose to be more involved in this game's plot.

If we have another Flemeth cameo-like appearance with Morrigan and that's it, that would be very disappointing.

[Jerrybnsn]

further:

Allan Schumacher wrote...

You said that Inquisition is Morrigan's story. Do you haev the link/reference handy?

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/08/12/dragon-age-inquisition-s-morrigan-past-and-present.aspx

 Inquisition is her chance to return to glory.........Morrigan’s fate is being teased for Dragon Age: Inquisition, and the anticipation of her role is keeping fans on the edge of their seats...... Although, she won’t be cast as one of the followers, her role is important. “It’s not a cameo. She plays a significant role,” Gaider teases. .....They’ve been building up her return for some time now. “The kernel of Inquisition’s story we knew from about midway through Dragon Age: Origins. The story has been in the making for a very long time,” Laidlaw says. “The story of Inquisition is [Morrigan’s] moment, which is a good way to think about it.”  

So if Morrigan's is not essentially involved in the plot at all, and if you can cut all her parts out and not replace it with anything and the Inquisition's story is uneffected. like you could with Flemeth's in DA2, then there is an expectation out there that I (maybe others) need to curtail.  Using Morrigan's appearance in the trailer probably didn't help.

Is Morrigan's role non-essentail to Inquisiton?

[daveliam]

When you say: "....essentially, Inquisition is Morrigan's story.", you are indicating that, in essence, the story is about Morrigan. What I think you meant to say was that Morrigan was essential to the story. This is a different sentiment; same root word, but different meaning. I think it was just a misunderstanding.

I think it's fair to take from Allan's statement that Morrigan will play some role in the story, but she is not the primary focus.

[Jerrybnsn]

What is the kernal of the Inquisition's story that is Morrigan's moment and is the chance to return her to glory? Okay, if I'm reading in too much of this and this isn't essentially, Morrigan's story, then I'm wrong. But, boy, they sure are making it out like it is. She is after all the main feature of DA3 trailer that they showed.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 17 août 2013 - 06:40 .

[Toasted Llama]

esper wrote...

Sure they have the right. But tell me why I should care about the faith of these bioware NPC I don't know? Why should I be any kind of invested in their fate. These would be two characters might as well be random villager number 7 and 8.

That's how you see your Warden and Hawke if they ever returned, which is fine, but it won't stop Bioware from making them return if they really want to. (And even though I myself would really like it, I'm not expecting them
to do that though, I think they wouldn't want to risk another fan-rage
outbreak) And I'm just saying that because most people sometimes think they still "own" the Warden and Hawke even after the games, which would, in their eyes, give them the 'right' to complain if Bioware portayed them poorly.

So yeah, again, just sayin'.

[daveliam]

Yeah, I think you might be reading too much into it. I think they featured Morrigan in the trailer and the interview because she is a pretty popular character from the series and she was pretty much completely absent from the second game. I think it was a way to get people to become excited about how she's going to fit into the storyline, but I don't think their intention was to indicate that she's the primary focus of it.

I think, instead, that they mean that (one of?) Morrigan's defining moment/s (from a story stand point) will happen in Inquisition. Not the other way around (that Inquisition is ABOUT Morrigan's defining moment). At least that's how I read it.

Modifié par daveliam, 17 août 2013 - 06:46 .

[Jerrybnsn]

daveliam wrote...

When you say: "....essentially, Inquisition is Morrigan's story.", you are indicating that, in essence, the story is about Morrigan. What I think you meant to say was that Morrigan was essential to the story. This is a different sentiment; same root word, but different meaning. I think it was just a misunderstanding.

I think it's fair to take from Allan's statement that Morrigan will play some role in the story, but she is not the primary focus.

No, Allen is right.  I really thought that this was her story in essence.  That without her there was no story, that her role was crucial to the plot. Sort of that the Witcher 2's story was essentially the story of the socorreses' conspiracy.  So Morrigan would have been kind of like that, complete with spankings.  I believe Allen is saying that she isn't crucial like that and in essence she isn't the story because of that. So if I'm wrong, as he says I am,  I'll admit I read into Morrigan's return too much and that I'm wrong.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 17 août 2013 - 09:39 .

[Iron Fist]

Geez, I never would have guessed that Morrigan's return would cause such a fuss. I'm glad she's back, whatever her role might be.

Back on topic (handling the Warden's or Hawke's appearance), I do not support them actually appearing in the game. Mentions here and there are ideal.

Modifié par MevenSelas, 17 août 2013 - 06:55 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Oh, and as far as Allen stating that toggling are problems for game developers, I didn't realize that it was that big of an issue considering so many games have toggles for this and toggles for that, or even a toggle if you wanted to skip an entire scene that you didn't want to partake in. Like CoDs' being a terrorist and wiping out innocent people in an airport.

[Jerrybnsn]

MevenSelas wrote...

Geez, I never would have guessed that Morrigan's return would cause such a fuss. .

I just mentioned it off hand that this post reminds me of the ones where I participated against those who didn't want Morrigan to return.  Then I made the mistake of saying..."and look now,essentially Inquisiton is Morrigan's story."  Oops.

[Sanunes]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

daveliam wrote...

When you say: "....essentially, Inquisition is Morrigan's story.", you are indicating that, in essence, the story is about Morrigan. What I think you meant to say was that Morrigan was essential to the story. This is a different sentiment; same root word, but different meaning. I think it was just a misunderstanding.

I think it's fair to take from Allan's statement that Morrigan will play some role in the story, but she is not the primary focus.

No, Allen is right.  I really thought that this was her story in essence.  That without her there was no story, that her role was crucial to the plot.  I believe Allen is saying that she isn't crucial and in essence she isn't the story because of that. So if I'm wrong, as he says I am,  I'll admit I read into Morrigan's return too much and that I'm wrong.

Right now all I know about Morrigan in Dragon Age: Inquisition from what I have been reading is that she is going to be there and she isn't going to be a playable character and the choices made from Dragon Age: Origin will be included, but there is no word how big a role those choices will make.

I am trying to not read into what I am seeing with the Game Informer articles because not only is the game still over a year away, but its not going to be able to give the depth that would be required to make the logic jumps I am seeing on the BSN. This is what I do with most games I buy so I am not disappointed because its still a lot of money in an investment that I could easily ruin by expecting too much.

[Black Jimmy]

Question: What does all this have to do with the Warden and Hawke making a come back?

[Allan Schumacher]

A post I can agree with, while like Jerry, I would very much like to see The Warden again, I do try to keep myself to the ground as best I can, simply because if you raise the bar too high, you will always end up disappointed, pretty much as you said in different words.

Personally I wouldn't find it a disaster if my Warden isn't in it at all, provided that it's explained before hand why he/she isn't in it, something like ''Listen up, The Warden will not be in DA:I, we know we kind of teased you guys with the Leliana thing in DA2, but plans have changed that didn't include The Warden, so that's that.'' and provided that The Inquisitor's story is good enough to make up for it.

I agree with this. The Warden and Hawke may or may not show up in DAI, and its certainly clear that some people really want them back, and it's also fair that BioWare painted themselves into this corner of expectation for some people, especially with Hawke. But I am very leery of the notion of having the past characters steal the focus from the main game without it just being some sort of hackneyed "Look it's you playing as your old character!" sequence that can still utterly bomb and make people pissed.


It is fun to bring Morrigan back because she's an interesting character, it fits well with where we're taking the narrative, and frankly she has a strong following. When I first saw the E3 trailer internally, I was all "Oooo, this will have a fun reaction! " Yes, not everyone will like it. Which is always going to be the case.

So going full circle, whatever decisions get made with respect to the Warden and Hawke, not everyone is going to like it. Given that those characters were the past players, this makes me much more guarded and cautionary.

[Jerrybnsn]

Black Jimmy wrote...

Question: What does all this have to do with the Warden and Hawke making a come back?

It unintentionally went off the topic. Morrigan isn't essential to Inquisition. Her role isn't what I thought it was, and Allen Shumacher wanted me to understand how wrong I was about her importance.  This will be the last I post of it.

[Jerrybnsn]

esper wrote...

Sure they have the right. But tell me why I should care about the faith of these bioware NPC I don't know? Why should I be any kind of invested in their fate. These would be two characters might as well be random villager number 7 and 8.

Select "NO" in the Warden/Hawke customization and you won't be subjective to their scenes. You'll just read about them in codex, and, or hear about them in passing dialogue and you can say, "Why should I care about reading about these two characters or hearing about them?"

[Jerrybnsn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

But I am very leery of the notion of having the past characters steal the focus from the main game without it just being some sort of hackneyed "Look it's you playing as your old character!" sequence that can still utterly bomb and make people pissed.

Why would a past character steal the focus from the main game?  The only reason I could think of is storywise, were their appearance wouldn't fit into the plot and basically be what a lot of people don't want, a meaningless cameo like Alistair was in DA2. This was in my OP:
Use the characters in a useful, important way.  No meaningless cameo. Having them stand around and ramble like Alistair or Zevern is lame.  What role could a level 23-28 character play in Inquisition?  Gee, I don't know?  How about using all that badassness and creating havoc through the enemy lines.  Remember the awe of playing Hawke in the prolouge where he was overpowered?  Well, imagine it the same with your Warden or Hawke somewhere in the middle of the game or towards the end, except it would be real.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 17 août 2013 - 09:02 .

[PJRobinson]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

esper wrote...

Sure they have the right. But tell me why I should care about the faith of these bioware NPC I don't know? Why should I be any kind of invested in their fate. These would be two characters might as well be random villager number 7 and 8.

Select "NO" in the Warden/Hawke customization and you won't be subjective to their scenes. You'll just read about them in codex, and, or hear about them in passing dialogue and you can say, "Why should I care about reading about these two characters or hearing about them?"

So not only have you agreed that this scene would be technologically impossible due to variations and you can't even think of an actual scene for the characters to have, you want to remove content from those who disagree that their characters would do those actions?

[Get Magna Carter]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

What is the kernal of the Inquisition's story that is Morrigan's moment and is the chance to return her to glory? Okay, if I'm reading in too much of this and this isn't essentially, Morrigan's story, then I'm wrong. But, boy, they sure are making it out like it is. She is after all the main feature of DA3 trailer that they showed.

The "return to Glory" is speculation from someone at Game Informer not information from Bioware so don't count on it to be accurate.

"Morrigan's moment" is ambiguous - it could mean that this is the moment fro Morrigan to do something significant (which does not exclude a lot in the game having nothing to do with her).

While I want to know more about my Warden's disappearance I worry that any reappearance would likely be a disappointment and I am better off just hearing an explanation.
And the whole customising of both Hawke and the warden sounds like too much hassle for a small and unimportant part of the game (and potentially odd for players who base their characters on themselves).

[Jerrybnsn]

PJRobinson wrote...

So not only have you agreed that this scene would be technologically impossible due to variations

 
Just how many Warden variations can Bioware's technology carry forward to DAI?

and you can't even think of an actual scene for the characters to have

I wouldn't dream of suggesting scenes for the Bioware writers.  They're too talented and much more far advance than my simplistic story telling goes.

, you want to remove content from those who disagree that their characters would do those actions?

But they said they didn't want that content.