406 réponses à ce sujet

[ForceXev]

People using CoD as an example of how Bioware should do things with Inquisition makes my stomach twist into knots.  IMO, citing how CoD does things does not bolster any argument.  Please move on before someone suggests killstreaks for Inquisition multiplayer.

[DarthSliver]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Yes, we could have done the scene without Flemeth. That we didn't mostly just says "We wanted her to be the one because reasons (presumably because there's a degree of intrigue that she's saved not only the Warden, but Hawke as well."

For some, that it's Flemeth doing the rescuing IS what makes it more interesting. It's not just some random mage (unless you haven't played DAO). As such, it IS still Flemeth that saves the player, and as such played a part in Hawke's story.

If the issue is distilling down the requirements for what it means to be "essential" be careful that your consideration doesn't effectively make it applicable to any and all characters. For a lot of things in both games, we could have gone with a completely different character.


In any case, equating what Morrigan's involvement in the story is to Flemeth's is a conclusion drawn to by someone else.  It needn't be accurate.

I believe Flemeth plays a more important role in Dragon Age series than you let on, in both games she made it possible for our heroes we played as to fulfill their roles. I believe she wanted the Blight ended because she knew it came about unnaturally, Awakening showing us that one Darkspawn who could think trying to civilize them that woke up the Old God which caused the Blight. Also I think she knew what would happen if Hawke made it to Kirkwall, I dont think she simply helped Hawke to keep her existences about. But I completely understand I could be on the wrong track here, my point I am trying to get out here is she is playing a more important role than we are lead to believe. I believe your using the fact she has had little screen time on the games to lead us in thinking she isnt important, if it wasnt for her Blight would probably still be on the rampage and the Templars probably wouldve successfully Annulled all mages or something along those lines.

As for the Warden and Hawke, I dont know if they will be in game but I think we can expect some kind of cameo through a mention or a note we find while roaming the world of Thedas in Inquisition. I think Varric and Cassandra might play the role for Hawkes cameo as we probably will learn about Hawke from either character since they know what happen in Kirkwall and the events in Kirkwall lead to the chaos thats happening now. 

[Jerrybnsn]

LucianaIV wrote...

CoD games typically do not have one set protagonist, neither Roach nor Ramirez nor Soap is the sole protagonist of CoD MW2, The Inquisitor in DA:I IS the sole protagonist you are supposed to play as.

Dragon Age Origins and DA2 also switch characters for you to play.  Origins did it three times (one optional), and DA2 once.  They just might do it again in Inquisitions.  So that was what I was suggesting, not the half a dozen different perspectives needed to tell Modern Warfare's story.  Off topic, I think one of my favorites was playing one of the members of a gun ship in the first game. Boom! Boom! Boom! 

Some times a switch can be a nice change of pace and fun.  And that's what I've been saying about using the Warden and Hawke, because I'm against them being just cameos, it has to fit into the story or help it, plus it should fun.

I think switching from the Warden to whoever you had guarding the gates of Denerim wasn't so much fun, but it gave you more of a sense that there is a big battle going on and your Warden is playing only a part of it. Granted the most important part.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 août 2013 - 06:58 .

[Jerrybnsn]

ForceXev wrote...

People using CoD as an example of how Bioware should do things with Inquisition makes my stomach twist into knots.  IMO, citing how CoD does things does not bolster any argument.  Please move on before someone suggests killstreaks for Inquisition multiplayer.

It was brought up as an example of a toggle to skip a controversial scene.  For those that are adamant that they don't want to see their Warden or Hawke if Bioware writes a scene for their appearance. I used it because Allen Schumacer said that I tosse around "shouldn't be a problem" without givng thought to if it can actually be done.

I was never suggesting  follow CoD for anything gameplay or mechanical for DA, such as multiplayer for starters.  Yuch.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 août 2013 - 06:44 .

[Jerrybnsn]

DarthSliver wrote...

I believe Flemeth plays a more important role in Dragon Age series than you let on,................... But I completely understand I could be on the wrong track here, my point I am trying to get out here is she is playing a more important role than we are lead to believe..

I completely agree with you about Flemeth.  I see the first two games her role hasn't been much but as setting the stage and plot points to be carried forward to future games.  But for the entire series, she is essential and it's being build up slowly to some future game. 

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 18 août 2013 - 07:17 .

[LucianaIV]

DarthSliver wrote...

As for the Warden and Hawke, I dont know if they will be in game but I think we can expect some kind of cameo through a mention or a note we find while roaming the world of Thedas in Inquisition. I think Varric and Cassandra might play the role for Hawkes cameo as we probably will learn about Hawke from either character since they know what happen in Kirkwall and the events in Kirkwall lead to the chaos thats happening now.

What you describe here is not a cameo, NPC's mentioning Hawke or The Warden are a reference, like Merril in DA2 having a short convo about Mahariel with Anders.

A cameo, no matter how short it is, is an actual appearance of a character in some way, be it normal, flashback or as an actual temporary companion, ME3 used temporary companions quite a few times.

And honestly, I for one wouldn't complain if the appearance of The Warden were comparable to that of previous companions in ME3, like Grunt, Thane, Wrex or Jacob, a mutual objective to accomplish together, to then part ways again.

Modifié par LucianaIV, 18 août 2013 - 08:06 .

[Oasis_JS]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A post I can agree with, while like Jerry, I would very much like to see The Warden again, I do try to keep myself to the ground as best I can, simply because if you raise the bar too high, you will always end up disappointed, pretty much as you said in different words.

Personally I wouldn't find it a disaster if my Warden isn't in it at all, provided that it's explained before hand why he/she isn't in it, something like ''Listen up, The Warden will not be in DA:I, we know we kind of teased you guys with the Leliana thing in DA2, but plans have changed that didn't include The Warden, so that's that.'' and provided that The Inquisitor's story is good enough to make up for it.

I agree with this. The Warden and Hawke may or may not show up in DAI, and its certainly clear that some people really want them back, and it's also fair that BioWare painted themselves into this corner of expectation for some people, especially with Hawke. But I am very leery of the notion of having the past characters steal the focus from the main game without it just being some sort of hackneyed "Look it's you playing as your old character!" sequence that can still utterly bomb and make people pissed.


It is fun to bring Morrigan back because she's an interesting character, it fits well with where we're taking the narrative, and frankly she has a strong following. When I first saw the E3 trailer internally, I was all "Oooo, this will have a fun reaction! :D" Yes, not everyone will like it. Which is always going to be the case.

So going full circle, whatever decisions get made with respect to the Warden and Hawke, not everyone is going to like it. Given that those characters were the past players, this makes me much more guarded and cautionary.

sorry for this random reply.. It's just..you wrote something before and I forgot to reply. I just wanted to say that I also argee  the I feel hawke,  champion of kirwarlk arc came to a closed right when hawke walk away from kirwarlk. .

  that pretty much the ending of DA2 where  cass was looking for hawke was more of hints leading to a new arc that might have been  little bit of it for the expansion for da:2 "a search for hawke during first stage of the mage/civl war  or most likely going into da:3  starting a  new character who maybe will need hawke support to help calm things down.. but that hawke story starting the ripple effects was done  . and i was guessing big time da:3 will be a new character for sure. that it will start with this new character , arc dealing with what was left over from da:2 and what was started because of it.



i also feel the two dlc for da2.where hints of what is going down in da:3 . I also went furthre thinking that hints of the dlc with tails..was leading to orale doing something in da3 but also maybe the orale goverment going after hawke.. during the expansion which didnt come out but thats was fine =D.

any how.. that where my thought when i first beat the game after a good month of playing it. when it first came out^^  yes people it toke a month because I like to take my time and enjoy it ^^


also I love the dlc. i have to say da:2 was one of first games where i bought everything for it^^ because i want support staff and also it was fun to play and use the dlc.


@ Allan Schumacher

 no worries if you don't reply^^ just wanted to share my thought.  have a nice day^^   sorry if my english is bad =D

Modifié par Oasis_JS, 18 août 2013 - 11:26 .

[Spectre slayer]

A lot of fans do consider their playthroughs as head canon though and have some outrageous expectations or come up with a lot pre conceived notations that the warden, hawke, or the god baby are going to be the inquisitor or have a major role which could cause some problems.

As for me I don't consider anything as headcanon and don't really care that much if the Warden and Hawke don't appear as companions as long as we get some kind of closure due to many factors like the ending of DA2, if they are mentioned, have a small role or a cameo that would be fine but if not then people just need to deal with it.

[LucianaIV]

Spectre slayer wrote...

A lot of fans do consider their playthroughs as head canon though and have some outrageous expectations or come up with a lot pre conceived notations that the warden, hawke, or the god baby are going to be the inquisitor or have a major role which could cause some problems.

As for me I don't consider anything as headcanon and don't really care that much if the Warden and Hawke don't appear as companions as long as we get some kind of closure due to many factors like the ending of DA2, if they are mentioned, have a small role or a cameo that would be fine but if not then people just need to deal with it.

And if their role is bigger, those that don't want it will just have to deal with it as well.

[canarius]

I think Bioware is making a mistake with different protagonists. They say this is the story of Thedas which is a good thing but they can do that with only one character. I think we should have had The Warden for both DA2 and DA:I. I know its too late for that but I think Bioware should consider using The Warden as protagonist for games after DA:I especially if the Inquisitor is a boring character like Hawke.

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote..

I agree with this. The Warden and Hawke may or may not show up in DAI, and its certainly clear that some people really want them back, and it's also fair that BioWare painted themselves into this corner of expectation for some people, especially with Hawke. But I am very leery of the notion of having the past characters steal the focus from the main game without it just being some sort of hackneyed "Look it's you playing as your old character!" sequence that can still utterly bomb and make people pissed.

Sure, but isn't Dragon Age all about the world and not any one character? I get that bringing back an old PC would be difficult but I think it would be a tremendous waste of potential for the series if you have it where narratively these old PCs are possibly still alive and kicking but yet they're pidgeon holed into a narrative twilight zone of having simply "vanished" for no reason, other than to make way for the new one off PC.

Allan Schumacher wrote..
It is fun to bring Morrigan back because she's an interesting character, it fits well with where we're taking the narrative, and frankly she has a strong following. When I first saw the E3 trailer internally, I was all "Oooo, this will have a fun reaction! :D" Yes, not everyone will like it. Which is always going to be the case.

I think the catch with Morrigan too is that for many people, she was last seen going off hand in hand to Eluvian Land with the Warden, who is also possibly father to her kid. That's not fanfiction or headcanon, that was in the game. That's all on BioWare, in terms of setting expectations. So when you show Morrigan again, I think its pretty natural and should be completely expected that as soon as you bring Morrigan back, people will wonder about their Warden too. If there is a decent explanation to be had, then great. But you NEED some kind of explanation there that doesn't immediately reek of just waving hands and having old PC's nerfed in terms of significance just because they're not the PC in the new game, or that they simply "vanished." That was part of the problem with Leliana in DA2 if you killed her- you didn't have any in game explanation as to how she seemingly came back from the dead.

Those sorts of things aren't fan made abstractions, those are corners that BioWare got themselves into and I think its owed to the fans to have at least some plausible narrative explanation to get out of them. Especially BioWare of all developers whose identity is tied so much to narrative and story.

[wwwwowwww]

For the record I could care less about whether or not the warden shows up in the game.

[Erhank]

It could be great. Even a small mission would be good. Even off screen. Examples: Fireteam choice in ME2, Old ME2 characters missions in ME3, or in some important event if we want their support. They can be there event that we can control them(figting or speaking(support)). Yes it is a fan service but I think it is important. Afterall we spent some time with them.

[septembervirgin]

Why focus on the Warden and Hawke? My head canon says the two were emblems of social forces and personifications of forgotten organizations, not actual individuals.

[JoltDealer]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Alright, then how about it's like not adding the rosmary and thyme.  That stuff is expensive . But I can't believe that following my suggestion is like making an extra side dish.  Didn't they say that the disappearance about the Warden and Hawke is tied to what's happeing in this next game.  So, therefore, the Warden and Hawke issue needs to be address as it is part of the plot and therefore part of the main dish.

It seems to me that this whole issue of having the Hawke and Warden return rest then on how much time with them can we afford in money and resources.  I'm thinking, all total, no more than a couple of hours worth of gameplay, probably wouldn't even come to that really.  So a couple of hours for a game that, if it lives up to Origins standards, will be seventy to eighty hours worth of game play.

Wow.  I take a break from the internet for a few days and damn.  I have a lot of new posts to read.

Jerry, what you're asking for would be making a side dish.  It compliments the flavors of the main dish, but it requires just as much work as the main dish in order to create.  That's what I've been trying to get you to understand once again.  The level of work, time, and resources required to implement anything even remotely similar to what you want/suggested, especially for 2-3 hours of a 70-80 hour game, does not make sense.  And yes, like I said multiple times before, even their appearance alone (no matter how brief) would take a ton of work to accomplish.

Now I don't think they'll just ignore the existence of Hawke and the Warden.  They'll acknowledge those two as well as their role in the story.  If anything, that's like adding or not adding spices to the dish.  However bringing them back, no matter how nice it would be, would not be worth the amount of time and work it would currently take to accomplish it.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

LucianaIV wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

A lot of fans do consider their playthroughs as head canon though and have some outrageous expectations or come up with a lot pre conceived notations that the warden, hawke, or the god baby are going to be the inquisitor or have a major role which could cause some problems.

As for me I don't consider anything as headcanon and don't really care that much if the Warden and Hawke don't appear as companions as long as we get some kind of closure due to many factors like the ending of DA2, if they are mentioned, have a small role or a cameo that would be fine but if not then people just need to deal with it.

And if their role is bigger, those that don't want it will just have to deal with it as well.

But their role probably won't be bigger. Bioware confirmed that the Warden's story is over and that Hawke story will only be continued through DLC.

[KennethAFTopp]

Rather it felt like DAII was an Epilogue for DA:O and a Prologue for DA:I. Rather strange as it does not seem to be able to stand on it's own. I am fine with never seeing Hawke again.

[LucianaIV]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

LucianaIV wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

A lot of fans do consider their playthroughs as head canon though and have some outrageous expectations or come up with a lot pre conceived notations that the warden, hawke, or the god baby are going to be the inquisitor or have a major role which could cause some problems.

As for me I don't consider anything as headcanon and don't really care that much if the Warden and Hawke don't appear as companions as long as we get some kind of closure due to many factors like the ending of DA2, if they are mentioned, have a small role or a cameo that would be fine but if not then people just need to deal with it.

And if their role is bigger, those that don't want it will just have to deal with it as well.

But their role probably won't be bigger. Bioware confirmed that the Warden's story is over and that Hawke story will only be continued through DLC.

I am not speaking of their own story, anyone that still deludes themselves into thinking their own stories aren't done, are fools.

Nobody has ever said that they don't have an important role to play in the story of our Inquisitor.

[Snypy]

Neither the Warden nor Hawke should make an appearance in DA3. The same should go for DA2 love interests. I would be fine, however, with NPCs, mentioning throughout the game what my previous two characters had done, i.e. their choices. But, it's not very reasonable to have them appear in the next game or to mention what happened to them after the events of the previous games.

Modifié par Snypy, 19 août 2013 - 07:04 .

[lady_v23]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A post I can agree with, while like Jerry, I would very much like to see The Warden again, I do try to keep myself to the ground as best I can, simply because if you raise the bar too high, you will always end up disappointed, pretty much as you said in different words.

Personally I wouldn't find it a disaster if my Warden isn't in it at all, provided that it's explained before hand why he/she isn't in it, something like ''Listen up, The Warden will not be in DA:I, we know we kind of teased you guys with the Leliana thing in DA2, but plans have changed that didn't include The Warden, so that's that.'' and provided that The Inquisitor's story is good enough to make up for it.

I agree with this. The Warden and Hawke may or may not show up in DAI, and its certainly clear that some people really want them back, and it's also fair that BioWare painted themselves into this corner of expectation for some people, especially with Hawke. But I am very leery of the notion of having the past characters steal the focus from the main game without it just being some sort of hackneyed "Look it's you playing as your old character!" sequence that can still utterly bomb and make people pissed.


It is fun to bring Morrigan back because she's an interesting character, it fits well with where we're taking the narrative, and frankly she has a strong following. When I first saw the E3 trailer internally, I was all "Oooo, this will have a fun reaction! :D" Yes, not everyone will like it. Which is always going to be the case.

So going full circle, whatever decisions get made with respect to the Warden and Hawke, not everyone is going to like it. Given that those characters were the past players, this makes me much more guarded and cautionary.

I do not mind if they do not appear in-game.  I just want closure.   closure!  May it be dlc, comics, codex, companion telling a story,etc.   Just give me closure! *shakes fist*

[Spedfrom]

LucianaIV wrote...

Ehh yeah guys, concerning Flemeth, do remember that the scene with Hawke plays DURING the blight, very likely, not even a day later Flemeth was killed by The Warden, leaving her essence in the amulet as the only piece left of her.

So yes, this was crucial to Flemeth, because she already expected The Warden would come for her head in Morrigan's name.

I haven't played DAO in sometime so bear with me: I remember completing Morrigan's personal quest, the one where she wants a book that Flemeth possesses. I remember Morrigan having it in her hands and thanking me for it. I also remember having searched for Flemeth and having not found her anywhere. I do NOT remember killing Flemeth.

Is it even possible for the Warden to kill Flemeth in the first game? Are my memories playing a trick on me? It would be lovely if someone could explain that in moer detail to me, lest I have to search it for myself on a wiki.

[LucianaIV]

Spedfrom wrote...

LucianaIV wrote...

Ehh yeah guys, concerning Flemeth, do remember that the scene with Hawke plays DURING the blight, very likely, not even a day later Flemeth was killed by The Warden, leaving her essence in the amulet as the only piece left of her.

So yes, this was crucial to Flemeth, because she already expected The Warden would come for her head in Morrigan's name.

I haven't played DAO in sometime so bear with me: I remember completing Morrigan's personal quest, the one where she wants a book that Flemeth possesses. I remember Morrigan having it in her hands and thanking me for it. I also remember having searched for Flemeth and having not found her anywhere. I do NOT remember killing Flemeth.

Is it even possible for the Warden to kill Flemeth in the first game? Are my memories playing a trick on me? It would be lovely if someone could explain that in moer detail to me, lest I have to search it for myself on a wiki.

Yes, it's possible, Morrigan will find out that Flemeth uses host bodies to prolong her life, typically women she raises as her daughters (I think), so Morrigan concluded she would very likely be next at some point.

At that point she asks The Warden to kill Flemeth, I think Flemeth can be found at certain moments, if you then stick with killing her, you get thrown into a boss fight with Flemeth in her dragon form.

[Spedfrom]

LucianaIV wrote...

Spedfrom wrote...

LucianaIV wrote...

Ehh yeah guys, concerning Flemeth, do remember that the scene with Hawke plays DURING the blight, very likely, not even a day later Flemeth was killed by The Warden, leaving her essence in the amulet as the only piece left of her.

So yes, this was crucial to Flemeth, because she already expected The Warden would come for her head in Morrigan's name.

I haven't played DAO in sometime so bear with me: I remember completing Morrigan's personal quest, the one where she wants a book that Flemeth possesses. I remember Morrigan having it in her hands and thanking me for it. I also remember having searched for Flemeth and having not found her anywhere. I do NOT remember killing Flemeth.

Is it even possible for the Warden to kill Flemeth in the first game? Are my memories playing a trick on me? It would be lovely if someone could explain that in moer detail to me, lest I have to search it for myself on a wiki.

Yes, it's possible, Morrigan will find out that Flemeth uses host bodies to prolong her life, typically women she raises as her daughters (I think), so Morrigan concluded she would very likely be next at some point.

At that point she asks The Warden to kill Flemeth, I think Flemeth can be found at certain moments, if you then stick with killing her, you get thrown into a boss fight with Flemeth in her dragon form.

Yup! I just remembered I fought her in her dragon form just outside Flemeth's hut on a small hill surrounded by shallow marsh water. Correct?

I also remember being conflicted about the decision because I found the character intriguing and mysterious and wanted to know more about her. It seems giving Hawke her "horcrux" just after she sent Morrigan with the Warden paid off nicely.

And I suppose the fact that in the same timeline she looks like an old hag to the Warden and a Dominatrix to Hawke underlines the fact that she's a shapeshifter that changes her appearance however she wants. Here's to hoping Flemeth has a new one in DAI, because variety is the spice of life! 

[Oasis_JS]

I forgot to add =D how i would handle if hawke would to pop out! I would have my inquisitor hug my lady hawke =P . although I don't think that option would be able, and i think hawke would be like why are you hugging me! ><

[x-aizen-x]

How could you all not want to see how your warden has become. I would love to have my warden as a companion