406 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Awakening directly continues the plot after the core game, and Golems of Amgarrak and Witch Hunt are both considered post-campaign in the plot.

But it's additional content. It isn't integral to the story.

Mass Effect 3 doesn't suddenly lack closure because the Leviathons exist and might take over again--they are independent of the main game, or rather the main game is independent of them.

It doesn't have to be. You're moving the goalposts.

You said that "it isn't the story". What you said is patently false, as shown by the 3 DLCs that directly continue the story.

[AresKeith]

EntropicAngel wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Awakening directly continues the plot after the core game, and Golems of Amgarrak and Witch Hunt are both considered post-campaign in the plot.

But it's additional content. It isn't integral to the story.

Mass Effect 3 doesn't suddenly lack closure because the Leviathons exist and might take over again--they are independent of the main game, or rather the main game is independent of them.

Please don't compare Dragon Age with Mass Effect

The Expansions and DLCs do continue the plot regardless if the Warden is alive or dead, or the other Warden Commander takes over

[Zu Long]

Korusus wrote...

Palidane wrote...

That seems to reflect more on your personal characters than all Wardens and all Hawkes. If you rolled an incompetent Warden that everybody will dismiss, good for you. But don't try to put my Warden in the same box.
 
To clarify my stance, I don't necessarily think the three of them should get together and adventure through out the whole game. I respect the Inquisitor and the amount of spotlight he will require in order to be a valid protagonist. However, my Warden didn't disappear down a black hole after the Blight. We know at least parts of DAI will take place in Ferelden, and we know the Grey Wardens will be involved. I don't see what's so wrong with The Warden Commander of Ferelden appearing and kicking ass for a while. The same is true of Hawke. If the Inquisitor goes to Andoral's Reach, I think my Hawke should be there, supporting the Mage rebellion. They don't have to play a major role, but I think they should at least exist.

Now, this of course assumes the "Disappearing Heroes" thread gets dropped or retconned. Even if it doesn't, the problem won't go away. Leliana is searching for the Warden, Cassandra thinks Hawke is the key to solving the war. So the Seekers are searching, the Grey Wardens will almost certainly be switching, Hawke and the Warden's respective love interests will be searching, Varric will probably be searching. When important and influential people disappear, people don't shrug their shoulders and move on.

I'm not saying the Warden was incompetent, far from it.  The Warden is just anonymous.  There's no reason to assume the Warden is some kind of celebrity in Thedas.  If the Inquisitor is Orlesian then there's no reason to assume she/he even cares about the now ancient history of the  Ferelden blight.  Cassandra thought Hawke was key...and was mistaken.  

While the Warden and Hawke are important to us as the players, they are mostly irrelevant to Thedas as a whole and BioWare essentially wrote them that way.  It's a play on the whole fulfillment of prophecy schtick...it's Gaider's cynical homage to black and white morality.  That's the joke...your heroes don't matter, they never did.  Despite all of your Warden's sacrifices, no one appreciates him/her for it.  That kind of harsh cynicism is what makes Dragon Age interesting to me.

Unless your Warden became Queen. Then she's kind of important to Ferelden, and Thedas as a whole. Or if your Warden followed Morrigan through the Mirror, it's going to be kind of weird for Morrigan, and possibly her kid, to show up without him. ("Who that guy? He just kind of wandered off one day. Let us speak no more of him.")

As for Hawke, the Chantry seemed to think he or she was important enough to send an army out to Kirkwall. Face it- for a number of scenarios, Bioware is going to have to address what happened to these two. Having them vanish off the face of the earth never to be heard from again makes far less sense then giving them a brief cameo showing what they're up to.

[Jerrybnsn]

EntropicAngel wrote...


But it's additional content. It isn't integral to the story.

The Stolen Throne and The Calling are additional content, yet it directly effects what happens in Dragon Age: Origins.  Just because we didn't play our Wardens when they were babies and grew up til the events that preceeded our game, doesn't mean that they didn't live or have stories.  Same with when the game is over, if they are still living that is.  Your's is dead.  And I forgot why you don't want anyone else to play their alive warden again?

[Palidane]

Hey Entropic Angel, do me a favor and stop pretending your personal opinions on "What DAI is supposed to be about..." are fact.

[o Ventus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

It doesn't have to be. You're moving the goalposts.

You said that "it isn't the story". What you said is patently false, as shown by the 3 DLCs that directly continue the story.

I disagree. The story of DA:O was the Blight.

The Blight is over. By definition, the DLC are not the same story. The may be add-ons, but they are not about the Blight.

Awakening directly continues the main plot. Like, it literally move the plot forward past the base game.

You can disagree all you want, it doesn't make you right.

[Zu Long]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I honestly don't get the people who don't want Hawke or Warden to show up again. How is "And the legendary badass disappeared forever for no adequately explained reason" in any way a satisfying end to the Warden or Hawke's story?

DA:I doesn't have to be ABOUT them for them to play a role in what happens, and what the OP suggests is as good a way as I've seen to do it.

It depends on what matters.

Their story as it relates to a particular point in Thedas history (or, the main plots of the games) is important. The rest really isn't.

Given that Morrigan and Varric matter, that Lilianna matters, that Sten the Arishok probably matters, that Alistair may very well matter depending on whether he's king or not, and that Hawke mattered a great deal to the church the last time we saw him or her, it doesn't really make any sense that the Warden and Hawke just disappear without anyone caring.

"These two people who played pivotal roles in the two crises immediately preceding our current crises no longer matter. Let us speak no more of them." Sorry, it just doesn't ring true for me.

[Jerrybnsn]

Filament wrote...

If it's announced that you can play as the Warden and Hawke (...well, as the Warden) again in a minor capacity, people might very well be thrilled. I think they just don't like your tone.

My tone?  What part of my OP had a bad tone?

[Palidane]

EntropicAngel wrote...

We don't need any of this. Dragon Age is not the story of Hawke. Dragon Age is not the story of the Warden.

Dragon Age is the story of Thedas, and presumably the Dragon Age, though they may go beyond.

The Warden's story is over. He or she does not need to appear. We already have enough "closure."

Hawke's story is over. He or she does not need to appear. We already have enough "closure."

You're first post in the thread good enough for you?

Modifié par Palidane, 14 août 2013 - 05:03 .

[The Hierophant]

I think that the most coverage the Warden, and Hawke might receive in DAI are a few lines regarding their past or current whereabouts.

On the flipside i hope Hawke is the main antagonist of DAI as he/she could make for an intriguing villain.

[Zu Long]

Filament wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Filament wrote...

If it's announced that you can play as the Warden and Hawke (...well, as the Warden) again in a minor capacity, people might very well be thrilled. I think they just don't like your tone.

My tone?  What part of my OP had a bad tone?

Given they've already explicitly said they're not going to do the things you've suggested, it comes across as a little whiny "but I wanna!!"

He didn't say make the Warden or Hawke the main character though. He said give them their own little vignettes not unlike the portions of previous games where we controlled a different character. At no point has Bioware said that the Warden and Hawke will definitely not be appearing in Inquisition, so how is the OP whining, exactly?

[Jerrybnsn]

Filament wrote...

Given they've already explicitly said they're not going to do the things you've suggested, it comes across as a little whiny "but I wanna!!"

Who explicity said that they weren't going to do what.  My OP didn't suggest  hawk or the Warden as companions, or pcs, or npcs.   I suggested that they do what they did for Morrigan and Varric in the last two games. 

[Palidane]

EntropicAngel wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Awakening directly continues the main plot. Like, it literally move the plot forward past the base game.

You can disagree all you want, it doesn't make you right.

You're right, it does--but it is not the plot of the game. It is, as you said, a continuation. An extension. It is not the Blight, but what happens after the Blight. Not DA:O's plot.

Were you around for ME2's dlc? Do you recall the (minor) outrage when it was discovered that Arrival would be a canon DLC? There was (minor) outrage because the rest of the DLC were not canon.

I'm working off of the assumption that Bioware is continuing the trend of DLC not being "canon." And if DLC are not canon, they are not the story, like I mentioned in the first post you responded to.

Of course, that could be false.

I'm not sure where you get this canon idea. If you do not complete Arrival, Hackett sends a bunch of marines to rescue Kenson. If you don't play LotSB, Liara eventually tracks him down and hires the Blue Suns to drop the hammer. If you didn't buy Overlord, Cerberus says 'screw it' and nukes the facility. None of them are more or less "canon" than the other.

The same justifications could be offered for the DAO DLC. If you didn't get Golems of Amgerrak, the dwarves eventually sent out another expedition. If your Warden didn't want to take over in Awakening, they send a Warden Commander from Orlais. If your Warden didn't care about Morrigan, maybe Ariane grabbed some more hunters from her clan to tracker her down. Or maybe the Warden-Commander decided she knew too much and came after her. 

Modifié par Palidane, 14 août 2013 - 05:19 .

[Zeldrik1389]

The way I see it is:

1, DA:I is by all mean, not the last DA games. This has been confirmed several times actually. So there's really no immediate need for "closure" in this game. As far as I concern, both the Warden and Hawke had served their purposes in their games. DA:I is about the Inquisitor, so I think they will just focus on that.

2, Since DA games aren't about them, but about the world of Thedas, I think let's just move on. Since there are bunch of potential tales, and characters in DA world that BioWare could explore in future games, I don't see any reasons for them to keep dwelling on the past instead of moving on to a new adventure.

3. Bringing up Hawke and The Warden again is, imo, like walking in a field full of landmines. They are both heavily customized by players, both in physical appearance, personalities, and decisions during their "adventure". And since players created and played them differently, covering all the possibilities that related to these 2 characters will require a huge amount of work. It will be a big risk to put that amount of work into these 2 characters, while still have to make sure the game is good, and at the same time risk facing the common complain "this is not my Warden / Hawke at all" from players (Which I think would happen anyway. If there's anything that I've learnt on forums, it's people demands are, in many cases, very unreasonable. Many people are just impossible to please). Imo, it's too much work, and too risky, for too little gain. I doubt they would go with this.

I think if they ever mention Hawke and The Warden again, they would play it safe and let other characters talked about them, or let them related to game's quests somehow (off screen cameos, etc...). It's easier and a lot less risky for them that way.

Modifié par Zeldrik1389, 14 août 2013 - 05:45 .

[Palidane]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Palidane wrote...

You're first post in the thread good enough for you?

I said that because I was under the impression that developers, Gaider among them, have said that--numerous times. I don't know where I would find a quote for that, but I don't think it's just my opinion. If it were just my opinion, believe me, I would say so.

All right, fair enough. Sorry for the accusation, I just haven't heard anything like that from a dev.

In fact, I think I remember David Gaider saying the disappearances were a plot point, and not a plot device to get them out of the way.

Modifié par Palidane, 14 août 2013 - 05:21 .

[Jerrybnsn]

EntropicAngel wrote...



I said that because I was under the impression that developers, Gaider among them, have said that--numerous times. I don't know where I would find a quote for that, but I don't think it's just my opinion. If it were just my opinion, believe me, I would say so.

David Gaider also said in this latest article that Inquisition is essentially Morrigan's story.  And my Warden you see before you stepped through the mirror with her to face the future together.  So the Inquisition, if they allow for player agency, will be essentially my story as well, whether my part is small or larger.  Am I the stay-at-home Warden?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 14 août 2013 - 05:25 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

The way I see it is:

3. Bringing up Hawke and The Warden again is, imo, like walking in a field full of landmines. They are both heavily customized by players, both in physical appearance, personalities, and decisions during their "adventure". And since players created and played them differently, .

Doesn't anyone read my original post?   You guys are killing me with this argument that wouldn't exist under my suggestion.

[Realmzmaster]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

 I see no reasons to waste resources on recreating Hawke and/or the Warden as NPCs. .

Wrong post.  This isn't the Hawke/Warden NPC post.

They need not show up in any capacity as far as I am concerned. Like the rest of my post said I have no problem with a codex entry saying how they did or the new portagonsist finding their bodies which would bring closure.