406 réponses à ce sujet

[Avaflame]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

... tells me you didn't read my op.

Well I sure won't in future, since you seem to not be reading my responses properly.

[Jerrybnsn]

Wulfram wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

 2) she didnt' look like Leliana

What?  Leliana in DA2 looks almost exactly like DA:O leliana.  She's about the only "import" that really worked.

Just think how she can look with the new graphics and engine.
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

[Jerrybnsn]

Avaflame wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

... tells me you didn't read my op.

Well I sure won't in future, since you seem to not be reading my responses properly.

I got it .  You were just joking around with the 'you'll need a helmet to hide their poorly imported faces" responses.  It's just the fact that those were even getting posted in the first place that made me wonder if they or you even read my op that dealt with brand new customization.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 14 août 2013 - 05:03 .

[Frozenkex]

Warden wont appear. Hawke might appear with look similar to default face or not at all.

[Realmzmaster]

Zu Long wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Why would they mean much to me? They are pixel characters on a screen in a game I play for fun. I received my enjoyment from the game and I move on to other games like Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas. I have multiple playthroughs of them. Nothing to be sad about.
I have my wife of 31 years that I love and am very attached. I have my family to be attached. I have my new grandson to be attached. I have my cats to be attached.

I have no attachment to a character on a screen.

Sad it is then. For me, my characters are people that I go on an adventure with. I laugh at their jokes, cry at their pain, cheer at their victories. I know their stories and their personalities like the back of my own hand, because I was with them every step of the way. Even after the game is over, they live on in my imagination. To see them again, even briefly, is like having an old friend stop by for a visit.

I have family, friends and cats in the real world as well, but with each story I create, each game I play, I gain another new friend, while you do not. And that's why I'm sad for you.

Don't be I'm not. I am living a good fulfilling life. I am a happy man.

[JoltDealer]

It's not going to happen Jerry. Sorry. I mean, I get where you're coming from, but it would just be too complicated. No matter how you simplify it, there are too many questions that would need to be answered from a writing perspective just by even one of them reappearing in Dragon Age Inquisition. It would not be easy by any stretch of the imagination. The time and effort spent on just their reappearance alone could be spent on polishing the rest of the game.

Just for the sake of it, I'll elaborate. If the Warden appears, what do you expect? What happens if his or her appearance does not live up to your expectations? What has he or she been doing for ten years? Why did he or she disappear? What happened to your romance? What happened beyond the Eluvian Mirror? If even one of those questions is answered in a way you don't like, you will likely be just as unhappy or upset as you would've been had they left the Warden alone. And that's how much effort goes into the Warden, IF he survived. Then you have Hawke to do next.

Now just for the sake of it, let's say Bioware did it and reintroduced both Hawke and the Warden in a way that didn't massively ****** off the fanbase. Now you want to play as them and have them be an integral part of the story. Maybe not super big, but not as small as a cameo. Okay! What if your the class you played no longer exists in DAI? Problem. What if the closure they give you is not the kind you wanted? Problem. What if the story requires the Hawke or Warden to act in a way that goes against the way you envision they would act? Problem. You can see what I'm getting at here. It's one problem or another even if they do it right.

Fact is, if Bioware leaves them alone with their open-ended "disappearances," you can envision the end you wanted. Maybe there's not enough closure for your taste, but adding closure that you may not like could be potentially worse. It's too big of a risk for as much time and resources as it would require, especially when it could go towards making DAI, a better game.

Also, I read the OP. I understand it. Telling people they simply didn't read or understand the OP when they disagree with you, is not an effective way to argue.

[Jerrybnsn]

Crimson Sound wrote...

.......it would just be too complicated. No matter how you simplify it, there are too many questions that would need to be answered from a writing perspective....It's too big of a risk for as much time and resources as it would require, especially when it could go towards making DAI, a better game.

.

I could understand that there may not be enough time or resources to do this, but to say it's too complicated?  They've already said that they are going to take all the possible Morrigan's into account according to how gamers finished their playthroughs.  So, I believe that the writers would be capable of treating all possible Wardens and Hawkes (especially Hawkes) if they had the time and the resources. Heck, they've already done it for the Witch Hunt dlc.  As far as people's "head canon", David Gaider said, you may have them but they have plans for the Warden and Hawke of their own.

As far as making DAI a bigger and better game, I believe there is a large amount of expectation out there that DAI is suppose to answer the issue of the Warden and Hawke.  The slipperly slope is how do they answer it?  If they do it wrong they could either enrage the fans or leave them very disappointment.  I gave the reasons for what would cause those cases, reasons beaten to death on this forum, and addressed them.  I believe my suggestion is probably the best of all scenarios in dealing with this issue,  and would make DAI a bigger and better game.  They've done it before, and they'll more than likely do it for this next game as well, so why not use your warden and hawke for those scenarios.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 14 août 2013 - 10:44 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Crimson Sound wrote...

 Telling people they simply didn't read or understand the OP when they disagree with you, is not an effective way to argue.

I never told people that they didn't read my op if they disagreed with me.  For instance, you stated that it would be better to just leave the Warden and Hawke's disappearance open ended so that the gamers can decide what happened to them.  We disagaree. Okay.

But, when I said that we wouldn't have to worry about importation of appearances to the new engine becaue we could customize are characters all over again; problem solved, and someone responds that it won't work because of the problem of importation of appearances to the new engine; however, the problem could be solved by just making the warden or hawke wear a helmet all the time,...that tells me they didn't read my post. Not that they disagree with me.

Or, the most frequent example, when I say we wouldn't have to worry about Bioware taking over our characters in action and dialogue because we could play them ourselves, problem solved, and the response back is that it won't work because people don't want the characters to be npcs were we can't control them, then that tells me they didn't read my post. Not that we are disagreeing.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Ideally they will not actually appear, and will just be handled via dialogue.

[Deverz]

I reckon Hawke's and the Warden's current whereabouts/adventures will not be mentioned. People will be up in arms screaming "my Hawke/Warden would never do that!". It is a waste of resources and significant effort for something fans will most likely hate. Acknowledge decisions made during DAO-DA2 but nothing afterwards.

The right thing to do is to just leave them be. Their stories are done, the rest is headcanon.

[Jerrybnsn]

Deverz wrote...

People will be up in arms screaming "my Hawke/Warden would never do that!". 

They wouldn't have to say "my Hawke/Warden would never do that!" if they are the ones deciding and controlling what they do for their brief  appearance.  If it's an issue of they wouldn't be involved in the Dragon Age world anymore, then select the default characters for those scenarios and be happy with your "head canon."

However, David Gaider did say that Hawke and the Warden are part of Thedas and they have plans for them, so perhaps those people should rethink their headcanon.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 août 2013 - 12:15 .

[JoltDealer]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I could understand that there may not be enough time or resources to do this, but to say it's too complicated?  They've already said that they are going to take all the possible Morrigan's into account according to how gamers finished their playthroughs.  So, I believe that the writers would be capable of treating all possible Wardens and Hawkes (especially Hawkes) if they had the time and the resources. Heck, they've already done it for the Witch Hunt dlc.  As far as people's "head canon", David Gaider said, you may have them but they have plans for the Warden and Hawke of their own.

As far as making DAI a bigger and better game, I believe there is a large amount of expectation out there that DAI is suppose to answer the issue of the Warden and Hawke.  The slipperly slope is how do they answer it?  If they do it wrong they could either enrage the fans or leave them very disappointment.  I gave the reasons for what would cause those cases, reasons beaten to death on this forum, and addressed them.  I believe my suggestion is probably the best of all scenarios in dealing with this issue,  and would make DAI a bigger and better game.  They've done it before, and they'll more than likely do it for this next game as well, so why not use your warden and hawke for those scenarios.

I never said it was impossible.  However, it is worth noting that from a creative standpoint, there are decisions that must be made when it comes to including or excluding potential content.  As a film student, I am greatly familiar with this.  More often than not, I'll have an idea that seems great in my head and would be brilliant, but ultimately it needs to be cut because it would be too much work in comparison to the outcome.  The amount of resources needed to bring back the Warden or Hawke, with playability and customization, wouldn't be worth the effort.  Even David Gaider has said on this forum that there are no current plans to bring back the Warden or Hawke for the same reasons I've given.

To compare a PC, like the Warden or Hawke, to Morrigan is like comparing apples to oranges.  Yes, they're all game characters that are affected by our choices, but PC's are considerably more complex in terms of programming and design.  Morrigan is affected by our choices, but for the most part can remain unchanged from a writing persepctive.  To put it simply, our decisions merely affect details rather than affect the execution of her role in Inquisition.  Who the Warden or Hawke is, is ultimately a result of our decisions.  Was he or she good or bad?  Was he or she violent?  Was he or she a man or a woman?  Unlike Morrigan, a pre-defined character who is changed by our decisions, the Warden and Hawke are the manifestions of our decisions, at least from a writing standpoint.  To have them appear means to import your custom look (either from a previous game or from what you suggested), as well as their personality being determined by a quick analysis of their decisions to determine the way you act when you're not in control of them.  Now I'm no game designer, but that would not be nearly as easy as you make it out to be.  

In regards to your second paragraph, I disagree once again.  The Warden and Hawke are not Shepard.  Dragon Age is not centered around any character.  It is about the world of Thedas.  Coming out of Dragon Age 2, I expected the next game to focus on the growing struggle between Mages and the Chantry.  And countless others were in the same boat as I.  Expecting a story about a world to focus on two individuals, no matter how important, is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Now I will admit, you have thought up one of the better solutions for the problems presented by bringing the Warden and Hawke back.  However, it is easy to think things up.  Making things a reality and subsequently implementing them is exponentially harder.  That's what I'm trying to explain to you.  Could it be done?  With tons of time and resources, yes.  Is it likely to be done when we're a year away from release?  No, it is highly unlkely.  While its not impossible, you shouldn't be expecting this sort of thing.  You also shouldn't judge the game for it should Bioware not include it.  It is a lot to ask for and more often than not, fans do not care for the trials and tribulations of content creators.  The general opinion amongst gamers is, "If something is possible, why hasn't it been done?"  

[Jerrybnsn]

Crimson Sound wrote...


The amount of resources needed to bring back the Warden or Hawke, with playability and customization, wouldn't be worth the effort. 

This is were we disagree. 

 

  Even David Gaider has said on this forum that there are no current plans to bring back the Warden or Hawke for the same reasons I've given.

1)Too complicated for the writers:  I don't know what to say.  I'm not a writer, a video game developer, or a film maker like yourself. Okay.  It's too complicated.
 
2) Too much to import:  Alright.  I don't know how hard that is as well.

3) Nobody wants bioware controlling them:  I covered this in my OP, but you and many others are pressing that issue.  I obviously can't change your minds it seems.

4) People prefer head canon:  My canon ended at the end of each game and dlc. 

5) Too expensive:  I don't know how expensive all of this would be be. Obviously cost was not part of my pitch other than they've done something similiar before and more than likely will be doing it again for Inquisition, so just use Hawke and the Warden instead.

6) Not enough time:  Roughly fourteen to fifteen months before release.  I won't argue with it because I don't know if there is enough time or not.

7) Most don't want the Wardens or Hawkes:  Matter of opinion.  I disagree.

You also shouldn't judge the game for it should Bioware not include it.

 

No, what the game is going to get judged on, is if and how they handle the Hawke/Warden issue.  Matter of opinion?  Maybe, but it is a hot issue that has been around for three years.  I've just made a suggestion on how they can handle it and avoid the extremes of enraged fans to disappointed fans.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 août 2013 - 01:02 .

[xnode]

http://social.biowar...x/17130247&lf=8

there u go answers to the whole discussion from dev's writing, topic nill if OP didn't know.

[Dabrikishaw]

If the Warden is dead, you can visit his/her grave.

If the Warden is King Consort/Queen Consort/Bann of the Elves/Counselor to Alsitair/Living in Denerim/When to his origin related home, have some NPC mention that.

If the Warden went into the Eluvian, have Morrigan elaborate on him.

If Hawke was Viscount or helped the mages, have Varric mention why they lost track of each other.

Modifié par Dabrikishaw, 15 août 2013 - 01:22 .

[Jerrybnsn]

xnode wrote...

http://social.biowar...x/17130247&lf=8

there u go answers to the whole discussion from dev's writing, topic nill if OP didn't know.

This is in regards to making Hawke and the Warden companions for the Inquisitor or making them equal PCs. Which is far from what I suggested.  They would no more be PCs than Morrigan or Varric were PCs in their respective games.

David Gaider "... putting them in the party would only open up calls for the player to roleplay them just as they roleplay the Inquisitor. Three PC's, in other words.

So, no. HELL no. Despite how awesome that might seem in your head, it would not be that awesome in practice."
"

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 août 2013 - 08:18 .

[Zu Long]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

If the Warden is dead, you can visit his/her grave.

If the Warden is King Consort/Queen Consort/Bann of the Elves/Counselor to Alsitair/Living in Denerim/When to his origin related home, have some NPC mention that.

If the Warden went into the Eluvian, have Morrigan elaborate on him.

If Hawke was Viscount or helped the mages, have Varric mention why they lost track of each other.

Except it's specifically mentioned that the Chantry was seeking out Hawke and the Warden for help, and they have vanished. it's clear that they still have the capacity to help in someone's mind. Why they aren't doing so, or more likely what is preventing them from doing so, should probably be addressed.

[JoltDealer]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
This is were we disagree. 

And that's fine.  I mean if I was purely a gamer, I'd say it was worth the effort.  However since I know enough about content creation and video game development to guess how much work it would take, it just doesn't make sense to do it.  This is doubly so when you consider the same amount of time and effort could be spent elsewhere to make the game stronger as a whole.

Jerrybnsn wrote...
1)Too complicated for the writers:  I don't know what to say.  I'm not a writer, a video game developer, or a film maker like yourself. Okay.  It's too complicated.

 
I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but it would be very complicated.  Writing one character is hard enough.  Writing one version for every possible permutation would be even harder.  The only truly canon thing about the Warden (aside from being a grey warden) is that he or she ended the Blight.  Every detail on the way is variable from who he or she recruited, to who he or she traveled with, and if he or she even survived the ordeal.  Then you also have to account for whether or not the player played the DLC and work accordingly.  Hawke would be a bit easier because he or she was more pre-determined, but aside from his or her origins and end, it was all variables.  It would require a lot of effort in terms of writing alone.

After a certain point, you'd write so many variations of the Warden and Hawke into the story, it'd be like you wrote ten or twenty new characters into the plot.

Jerrybnsn wrote...
2) Too much to import:  Alright.  I don't know how hard that is as well.

All those variations I mentioned above?  Well the game has to be able to tell which version of the character to import.  So imagine, if you will, having to design an importation system that takes all these variables into account in order to properly depict (i.e. dialogue, personality, race, and new/old customized appearance) your Warden or Hawke when they appear.  Even if you get it to work, you then need to QA test it to make sure the bugs are out and that it works properly.  Now I'm not sure how much you'd want these characters to return for, but for two to three hours of a game that is likely to be fifty hours long?  Several months of work for two to three hours (keep in mind, you need to pay the staff and actors for this time) of gameplay does not make a lot of sense.

Jerrybnsn wrote...
3) Nobody wants bioware controlling them:  I covered this in my OP, but you and many others are pressing that issue.  I obviously can't change your minds it seems.

Not sure where you got this from.  I went back and reread my post, but I saw nothing similar to this statement.  If anything, I disagree with this.  Bioware has to take control at some point and bottle neck the story.  If not, the tree that is the game will be crushed underneath the weight of its own story branches.

Jerrybnsn wrote...
4) People prefer head canon:  My canon ended at the end of each game and dlc. 

Well that's neat, but you are one person.  Now while I am in your boat, there are still countless others who have embraced head canon.  These same people would be pissed at Bioware if they did anything to negate that.  After the fiasco resulting from Mass Effect 3's ending, I don't think Bioware would be willing to take that chance.

Jerrybnsn wrote...
5) Too expensive:  I don't know how expensive all of this would be be. Obviously cost was not part of my pitch other than they've done something similiar before and more than likely will be doing it again for Inquisition, so just use Hawke and the Warden instead.

Those several months of work I mentioned before?  Imagine that you have to pay by the hour for every one who works on it.  Game developers under EA get paid hourly wages as well as benefits like health insurance and such.  Not cheap, but considering most devs don't even get that, I'd say they deserve it.  Voice actors get paid $120-200 an hour according to their standard union rate.  Then take into account the writers I mentioned before.  It'd easily make its way into the five digit range.  

Jerrybnsn wrote...
6) Not enough time:  Roughly fourteen to fifteen months before release.  I won't argue with it because I don't know if there is enough time or not.

Games are usually "finished" a few months before release in order to submit themselves for ESRB ratings and such.  Then you have advertising.  The only work done during this time is polishing and DLC.  Taking that into account, they'd have at most ten months to get this and everything else they had planned finished.  The only way they'd have enough time is if they pushed the game's release back then again.

Jerrybnsn wrote...
7) Most don't want the Wardens or Hawkes:  Matter of opinion.  I disagree.

Again, I'm not sure where you got this from.  It's not that I don't want to see them, but it'd be too much work just to satisfy a portion of the fanbase all while pissing off another.  That's where my problem lies.

Jerrybnsn wrote...
No, what the game is going to get judged on, is if and how they handle the Hawke/Warden issue.  Matter of opinion?  Maybe, but it is a hot issue that has been around for three years.  I've just made a suggestion on how they can handle it and avoid the extremes of enraged fans to disappointed fans.

Then please forgive me for my forthcoming crassness, but you're a damned fool if that's what you believe.  To judge an entire game based on the inclusion or exclusion of any one feature is ridiculous.  Dragon Age Inquisition still has a ways to go, but based on what they have shown so far, it looks promising.  I can tell you're a smart guy given how well you make valid points, so I'm surprised you'd judge anything as a whole based off of one aspect.  This goes double for when the aspect in question, would require the developers bending over backward to accomplish.  You're entitlted to your opinion, but I urge you to judge Dragon Age Inquisition based on its own merits when it is released.

Modifié par Crimson Sound, 15 août 2013 - 03:22 .

[Zu Long]

Crimson Sound wrote...

Then please forgive me for my forthcoming crassness, but you're a damned fool if that's what you believe.  To judge an entire game based on the inclusion or exclusion of any one feature is ridiculous.  Dragon Age Inquisition still has a ways to go, but based on what they have shown so far, it looks promising.  I can tell you're a smart guy given how well you make valid points, so I'm surprised you'd judge anything as a whole based off of one aspect.  This goes double for when the aspect in question, would require the developers bending over backward to accomplish.  You're entitlted to your opinion, but I urge you to judge Dragon Age Inquisition based on its own merits when it is released.

If they didn't want us making emotionally charged decisions like judging the game based on whether they deliver a satisfying conclusion to a cliffhanger fate for two characters we are heavily invested in, then they probably shouldn't have gone to all the trouble of getting us emotionally invested in the first place. Or for that matter, setting up a giant cliffhanger ending.

I freely admit that the incredibly disappointing ending of ME3 plays a huge part in how I judge that game. For all the magnificence of the first 99% of the game, that turd of an ending is impossible for me to get around.

This easily has the potential to do the same thing to DA:I if they don't come up with a satisfying solution, and I don't mind saying ignoring it or killing the characters off out of hand will NOT cut it, IMO.

Gaider and team brought this on themselves. I was fine with Alistair's joke about the Warden having a name and meeting her back in Ferelden. Disappointed by no cameo, but ultimately fine with it. Then they decided she's up and vanished somewhere that not even the love of her life Lilianna can find her. Damn right I'll judge them on how they resolve it.

[JoltDealer]

Zu Long wrote...

If they didn't want us making emotionally charged decisions like judging the game based on whether they deliver a satisfying conclusion to a cliffhanger fate for two characters we are heavily invested in, then they probably shouldn't have gone to all the trouble of getting us emotionally invested in the first place. Or for that matter, setting up a giant cliffhanger ending.

I freely admit that the incredibly disappointing ending of ME3 plays a huge part in how I judge that game. For all the magnificence of the first 99% of the game, that turd of an ending is impossible for me to get around.

This easily has the potential to do the same thing to DA:I if they don't come up with a satisfying solution, and I don't mind saying ignoring it or killing the characters off out of hand will NOT cut it, IMO.

Gaider and team brought this on themselves. I was fine with Alistair's joke about the Warden having a name and meeting her back in Ferelden. Disappointed by no cameo, but ultimately fine with it. Then they decided she's up and vanished somewhere that not even the love of her life Lilianna can find her. Damn right I'll judge them on how they resolve it.

Then judge the execution of it, not the entire game itself.  If you judged humanity by its best or worst, you'd either have a gross exaggeration or an abhorrent underestimation.  No matter how you justify it, you're acting like a child who found vegetables in his casserole.  Doesn't matter how good the casserole is, you're going to think and claim that it's awful because it merely has vegetables in it.  And this is why I get upset when I hear this.  It seems like you don't care about Dragon Age Inquisition being good or not.  All that matters is you getting what you want.

And this isn't to say they won't reference the Warden or Hawke, or possibly reveal more about their fates.  What I am saying to Jerry, is that what he wants has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.  By expecting this, he is likely setting himself up for disappointment and deciding the verdict on a game that hasn't even been released yet.  Doesn't matter if it's a good game or not.  No Hawke?  No Warden?  It's a garbage game.

[Plaintiff]

1) Have them die off-screen.

[Jerrybnsn]

Crimson Sound wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

If they didn't want us making emotionally charged decisions like judging the game based on whether they deliver a satisfying conclusion to a cliffhanger fate for two characters we are heavily invested in, then they probably shouldn't have gone to all the trouble of getting us emotionally invested in the first place. Or for that matter, setting up a giant cliffhanger ending.

Then judge the execution of it, not the entire game itself.  If you judged humanity by its best or worst, you'd either have a gross exaggeration or an abhorrent underestimation.  No matter how you justify it, you're acting like a child who found vegetables in his casserole. 

I guess I should have been more specific on that Inquisition will be also judged on how they handle the issue of the Warden and Hawke.  But judged on it they will be. Just like an excellent example you gave of Mass Effect's ending.  How important is an ending?  Apparently so important that it brought a game's enjoyment down from what should have been an average 9 or 10 to 4s and 5s.  It even ended up hurting the overall enjoyment of the series.

I'm not saying that the issue of the Warden and Hawke are as important as an ending; however, two combined polls conducted shortly after DA2's release showed that 75% of some 350 people preferred DA3 to go back to the Warden and the Origins' open plots rather than start another new story and protagonist.  So, there are "some" out there that are already disappointed with this game in that respect, but to completely ignore them further or spend very little time on them and their Warden again could have a bigger judgmental effect.  How big?  I guess we'll see.

Your analogy on a game being judged like a food dish with ingrediants is spot on.  However, instead of saying that people don't like a dish because they added vegetables to it, because, as you say, it's too complicated and expensive to add anymore to this game, a better analogy with ignoring the Warden and Hawke's issue would be by saying they decided not to add the right amount of salt.  Salt is only a small part of the ingrediants as a whole, but to leave some of it out will be noticable and have a big effect on how you enjoy your meal.

[djbc80]

would be interesting if we had the three players (inqusitor, the warden an hawke) in front of each chapter and a final chapter where their join forces to save thedas, because it seems absurd that a single character save the entire continent, when in foreplay only saved a country.

[Jerrybnsn]

djbc80 wrote...

would be interesting if we had the three players (inqusitor, the warden an hawke).

Even I wouldn't put Bioware through that.  They're just getting use to handling multiple races again. Rockstar is the only one who does three protagonist right now.

David Gaider--"...Three PC's, in other words.

So, no. HELL no. Despite how awesome that might seem in your head, it would not be that awesome in practice."

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

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 août 2013 - 05:05 .

[Kaidan Fan]

EntropicAngel wrote...

We don't need any of this. Dragon Age is not the story of Hawke. Dragon Age is not the story of the Warden.

Dragon Age is the story of Thedas, and presumably the Dragon Age, though they may go beyond.

The Warden's story is over. He or she does not need to appear. We already have enough "closure."

Hawke's story is over. He or she does not need to appear. We already have enough "closure."

This sums it up for me.  I loved my Wardens and Hawkes but Dragon Age is about Thedas and I have no problem with them not returning and actually prefer it that way.