406 réponses à ce sujet

[JoltDealer]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Your analogy on a game being judged like a food dish with ingrediants is spot on.  However, instead of saying that people don't like a dish because they added vegetables to it, because, as you say, it's too complicated and expensive to add anymore to this game, a better analogy with ignoring the Warden and Hawke's issue would be by saying they decided not to add the right amount of salt.  Salt is only a small part of the ingrediants as a whole, but to leave some of it out will be noticable and have a big effect on how you enjoy your meal.

We agree that the analogy is appropriate, but I disagree that it'd be like adding salt.  Adding salt is not expensive, nor is it complex.  The amount of salt added by a cook is a matter of taste, not any sort of limitation as it is rather abundant.  It'd be more like making another side dish that compliments the meal well.  It's not necessary, but its inclusion would likely be better for your guest's collective pallete.  Once you take into account that you have to make several versions of the same side dish to accommadate every individual's own uniques tastes, then you begin to see the amount of work that would be required to bring the Warden and Hawke back.

[PJRobinson]

Just wondering what this quest as the warden or Hawke or a default would even be. What has Hawke got to do that is so vital? What quest would all wardens do? (other than their calling)

[Jerrybnsn]

Crimson Sound wrote...

We agree that the analogy is appropriate, but I disagree that it'd be like adding salt.  Adding salt is not expensive, nor is it complex.  The amount of salt added by a cook is a matter of taste, not any sort of limitation as it is rather abundant.  

Alright, then how about it's like not adding the rosmary and thyme.  That stuff is expensive . But I can't believe that following my suggestion is like making an extra side dish.  Didn't they say that the disappearance about the Warden and Hawke is tied to what's happeing in this next game.  So, therefore, the Warden and Hawke issue needs to be address as it is part of the plot and therefore part of the main dish.

It seems to me that this whole issue of having the Hawke and Warden return rest then on how much time with them can we afford in money and resources.  I'm thinking, all total, no more than a couple of hours worth of gameplay, probably wouldn't even come to that really.  So a couple of hours for a game that, if it lives up to Origins standards, will be seventy to eighty hours worth of game play.

[Jerrybnsn]

PJRobinson wrote...

Just wondering what this quest as the warden or Hawke or a default would even be. What has Hawke got to do that is so vital? What quest would all wardens do? (other than their calling)

I haven't even offer one because I don't even know what the plot of the game and the dynamics of it all.  I was just offering up a suggestion on what they did for three seperate occasions in Origins and once in DA2 when you stoped playing the protagonist briefly and assumed control of another character.  I thought they worked great and were fun.  But instead of assuming some other npc, allow the gamers to assume their Warden and Hawke for that similar experience.

I trust the magic of Bioware's writing team to make it happen. 

But alas, as the Crimson Sound says, it's too complicated for Bioware's writers to do.  Too much money and resources.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 août 2013 - 09:59 .

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
I trust the magic of Bioware's writing team to make it happen. 

But alas, as the Crimson Sound says, it's too complicated for Bioware's writers to do.  Too much money and resources.

You could do it for Hawke - you'd just have to get Jo Wyatt and Nick Boulton back - but the Warden is dead in the water without entirely revamping the game.

And the other problem is how you handle that for whatever player is new to the game. Why are you suddenly this person? Why should you care? Why is their path important? 

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...


And the other problem is how you handle that for whatever player is new to the game. Why are you suddenly this person? Why should you care? Why is their path important? 

Big problem with making a series of video games.  That's why the opening monologue is so important in catching everybody up to speed.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 août 2013 - 11:43 .

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...


And the other problem is how you handle that for whatever player is new to the game. Why are you suddenly this person? Why should you care? Why is their path important? 

And I wonder how many new players wondered why this guy was so important in DA2.

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

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 15 août 2013 - 11:47 .

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Big problem with making a series of video games.  That's why the opening monologue is so important in catching everybody up to speed.

It's not about "getting it" in the sense that you don't understand who the character is or what's going on. It's caring. For new players, you're taking them away from their protagonist and throwing them in with someone they don't know, haven't interact with before, don't travel with ... to solve a plot they probably don't care about (because it wasn't part of the game up to that point). 

Don't get me wrong - it's totally possible to do a story with multiple protagonists, but that's a game you have to design from the ground up. It can't be like DA2's take-control-of-Varric-for-one-scene moment. 

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

And I wonder how many new players wondered why this guy was so important in DA2.

He wasn't, though. It was a random meeting with an NPC. And Alistair dissapears into the ether after that moment. 

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

It's not about "getting it" in the sense that you don't understand who the character is or what's going on.

Yes, there would have to be points in the game that would mention the Warden or Hawke and build up the suspense for the appearance of those characters.  As I understand it, if you're warden is dead than it is the Orleasion Warden from Awakenings that has gone missing that is so important. 

 For new players, you're taking them away from their protagonist and throwing them in with someone they don't know, haven't interact with before, don't travel with ... to solve a plot they probably don't care about (because it wasn't part of the game up to that point).

That could happen if it isn't handled correctly.  Good point. I don't know what the story is about and I really have no idea what is up with the "missing" hero thing.  I'm just suggesting a possible way on how to handle the demand for a warden and hawke appearance without causing "fan rage" or "fan disappointment".  Controlling them like in the scenarios I gave would be a good way. 

Don't get me wrong - it's totally possible to do a story with multiple protagonists,

I'm not talking about multiple protagonists.  I'm talking about a couple of certain points during a game where you would take over these overpowered characters and get a chance to interact with them to get closure. They would no more be protagonists in this game as it was when you did with Morrigan or Varric in their respective games.
But use the Morrigan model were you actually were able to have conversations besides the combat.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 12:00 .

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Yes, there would have to be points in the game that would mention the Warden or Hawke and build up the suspense for the appearance of those characters.  As I understand it, if you're warden is dead than it is the Orleasion Warden from Awakenings that has gone missing that is so important.  

Random gossip about characters doesn't built a connection. Did all the hype about Hawke somehow make you OK with not playing the Warden, who you're very attached to?

I'm just suggesting a possible way on how to handle the demand for a warden and hawke appearance without causing "fan rage" or "fan disappointment".  Controlling them like in the scenarios I gave would be a good way.

There's no way to do it without fan rage or dissapointment. DA:A caused rage and dissapointment just by forcing the Warden to go back and work for the GWs.

[ I'm talking about a couple of certain points during a game where you would take over these overpowered characters and get a chance to interact with them to get closure. They would no more be protagonists in this game as it was when you did with Morrigan or Varric in their respective games.

There's no closer if you've never played them before. It's a random and disjointed moment. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Zu Long wrote...

Dabrikishaw wrote...

If the Warden is dead, you can visit his/her grave.

If the Warden is King Consort/Queen Consort/Bann of the Elves/Counselor to Alsitair/Living in Denerim/When to his origin related home, have some NPC mention that.

If the Warden went into the Eluvian, have Morrigan elaborate on him.

If Hawke was Viscount or helped the mages, have Varric mention why they lost track of each other.

Except it's specifically mentioned that the Chantry was seeking out Hawke and the Warden for help, and they have vanished. it's clear that they still have the capacity to help in someone's mind. Why they aren't doing so, or more likely what is preventing them from doing so, should probably be addressed.

Well then

Plantiff wrote

1) Have them all die offscreen.

[phat0817]

I don't need to know see them but I'd like to know what happened to them

Modifié par phat0817, 16 août 2013 - 12:54 .

[LucianaIV]

From what I can see, OP wants it done like Leliana's DLC in DAO?

Where you delve into her past and she is your PC in the DLC?

I can agree to that, honestly, if Bioware had simply not touched The Warden at all in DA2, I would agree his/her story is concluded, but they themselves dragged The Warden back up again with this ''mysterious disappearance'' stuff and Leliana looking for him/her, presumably because his/her help, along with Hawke's is needed in the coming crisis.

Bioware themselves proudly proclaimed their stories as over while dragging up The Warden again in DA2, so yes, I can very much understand and agree to wanting them both to have a meaningful role in DA:I.

Also, the people screaming the loudest that they don't want either in DA:I, are either people who don't give a damn about either, or people that killed The Warden and hated Hawke.

Modifié par LucianaIV, 16 août 2013 - 01:09 .

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

There's no closer if you've never played them before. It's a random and disjointed moment. 

You are pretty sure that Bioware wouldn't be able to set this up so that it would fit in seamlessly.  I feel my suggestion is actually giving continuity to the whole series by tying up loose threads in a meaningful way.  Assassin Creed had a lot of loose threads spead out for three games, so do you think those who played Revelations for the first game in the series were lost or didn't care about certain characters?  That's the problem with games that are spread out over a series with an overarching storyline.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 01:24 .

[Jerrybnsn]

LucianaIV wrote...

From what I can see, OP wants it done like Leliana's DLC in DAO?

Where you delve into her past and she is your PC in the DLC?

Sort of, although not as long, as it would only last one scene and the time for some carnage game play cutting a swath through the enemy.  Or not.  I have no idea what Bioware is up to.  Again, this is just a suggestion if they want to use them.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 01:31 .

[LucianaIV]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

LucianaIV wrote...

From what I can see, OP wants it done like Leliana's DLC in DAO?

Where you delve into her past and she is your PC in the DLC?

Sort of, although not as long, as it would only last one scene and the time for some carnage game play cutting a swath through the enemy.  Or not.  I have no idea what Bioware is up to.  Again, this is just a suggestion if they want to use them.

Depending on their role I wouldn't mind the same length.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

If the Warden and Hawke are in the game then I'd love the idea that once they enter the story we the player actually stop controlling the Inquisitor for a while and take control of the Warden and Hawke for a short time and then go back to the inquisitor. That way we wouldn't have to worry about how our character would act and react because it would be use controlling them again.

That would be so perfect for me at least.

[Brockololly]

I agree with just about everything the OP mentions.

Granted, I don't want to see Hawke or the Warden unless they have a role in the story. If something is going on in Kirkwall, then yeah, I'd rather have Hawke deal with it. If there is something brewing that calls for the Hero of Ferelden to be involved, then I'd want to see it from their POV. Just allow the player to create their likeness at the beginning if they want as an option or from within the game in some way (like somebody taking the description of a wanted poster or as a artist making a painting or statue of Hawke or the Warden).

As I've brought up before, it could be similar to A Song of Ice and Fire where you're seeing a common set of events from different points of view. Maybe the Inquisitor is investigating something regarding Kirkwall or the Wardens and we get a cutscene of them writing a letter to Hawke/ The Warden. Cut to an Indiana Jones style map overlay with the letter being delivered to Hawke/The Warden as the voice over is of the Inquistor reading the letter, then fade in to the letter being delivered to Hawke or the Warden and them reading it over. Then cut to control of Hawke/ The Warden being questioned by some NPC what the letter is about and go from there. Easy way to introduce them.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 août 2013 - 01:28 .

[KC_Prototype]

I agree. Make them have meaning in the story and let us customize them at least. The Warden is by far my favorite DA character.

[LucianaIV]

Brockololly wrote...

Granted, I don't want to see Hawke or the Warden unless they have a role in the story. If something is going on in Kirkwall, then yeah, I'd rather have Hawke deal with it. If there is something brewing that calls for the Hero of Ferelden to be involved, then I'd want to see it from their POV. Just allow the player to create their likeness at the beginning if they want as an option or from within the game in some way (like somebody taking the description of a wanted poster or as a artist making a painting or statue of Hawke or the Warden)

You know, I hadn't even considered this, but yes!

That is exactly what I would want too, if in DA:I something big happens in Kirkwall/The Free Marches or in Ferelden, I want to deal with it as Hawke or The Warden.

Also, another thing to remember is that Bioware, while having been very short and clear about the individual stories of The Warden (any Origin) and Hawke, they have in no way shape or form stated that either one of them doesn't have a role to play, be it small or huge, in the story of The Inquisitor, infact, from what I've seen, they have so far specifically avoided saying anything concrete about either Hawke or The Warden in regardence to DA:I.

Modifié par LucianaIV, 16 août 2013 - 02:00 .

[Jerrybnsn]

But the canon is that they are missing and that there is a reason why they are not saving the world like heroes do. So it won't be like they are hanging out in their respective domains for this game.

[Reidbynature]

I wouldn't mind if The Warden (and maybe Hawke) were crucial to the story at some point and not just a glorified cameo. I'd like their return to be important and maybe not just tied to Morrigan/OGB.

I'm also leaning towards a separate CC if people want to import their Warden and/or Hawke. I expect with the new engine it would probably be best. Plus I imagine it may have more options available than the previous two games CC which I think some might appreciate some new details that weren't previously available.

[Oasis_JS]

JFarr74 wrote...

I'm actually kinda surprised that people don't want to see their previous characters in it. I mean, it would be nice to see then again in my opinion. I would imagine that part of Inquisition's plot would be looking for Hawke and/or the Warden on order to put and end to the fighting. In terms of appearance, I imagine their facial appearances would be imported into Inquisition, or they would be given a default one, but your warden would keep his/her race and class (but would be given a default face and voice). I feel it would be easier for Bioware to bring Hawke back, what with him already having a voice and such. As for personalities, I guess that the choices made in each game by each protagonist would shape their personality, kinda like how Hawke could be diplomatic, sarcastic, or aggressive.

hey hey =D my friend.. i am one of the person who would love for them to pop out =D. I want my lady hawke to pop out! =D     Also since I'll start to play da2 pc version soon . I want my da:o city elf too =D. for my warden i am totally cool with non speaking cameo..

  but for my  Rogue lady hawke and her partner in crime Merrill, in my ps3 version. I would love for them to pop out. because i left my lady hawke with more kind comment and funny jokes. since it balance out at the end as the kind carrying version. If she does pop out.  i hope they have my hawke talk in that kind/carrying way tone, i will be happy ..
over all i would love for her to pop out^^.. heck she was stone throw into the pound..which started the ribble effects..of  how the mages can be free..   so she will be...a person needed..to help be the person of reason with the mages.

^^ i think she will pop out...maybe in dlc or some what in the middle of the stroy^^

Modifié par Oasis_JS, 16 août 2013 - 03:59 .

[Jerrybnsn]

In Exile wrote...

Random gossip about characters doesn't built a connection. Did all the hype about Hawke somehow make you OK with not playing the Warden, who you're very attached to?


 

But if they don't appear, isn't dialogue what every one is at least expecting to hear anyway?  "Hey, the Warden is missing", "Yeah, it's all good now, they found him at some point in this game.", "So that's it now?", "Yeah,  but I heard he's also dead now too.", "No way!", "Yeah.","Wow.", "Yeah."

As far as the hype build up of Hawke, that wasn't in the game that set the build up to play Hawke.  And he was announced as the main protagonist, complete with his face on the cover and we saw his face on this screen backdrop of the BSN site for a couple of years.  But regardless, their seems to be a "canon" that their is a Hawke and a Grey Warden, yours or an Orleasian, in the Age of Dragon of what this series is about. No one had an option of Hawke being dead at the end of DA2, and no one has control on if their is an Orleasian Warden or not, so a new gamer may have to deal with them in the near future.

If there is one thing about Bioware, is that everyone still trusts in their writing.  I'm sure if they did this option of having a more meaningful gameplay with the issue of the Warden and Hawke, they would be able to make it a more seamless part of the game for newcomers.  But there is only so much you can do considering it is the third game of a series.  I was somewhat confused on who people where in Halo 3 but I still enjoyed the game quite fine.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2013 - 09:21 .