184 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Ideally I'd see completionism as possible, but with potential negative consequences if you push it past a certain point.

ie eventually people start turning up and saying "We really need your help now, Inquisitor!" and you can ignore them, but if you do it too long then when you do arrive more people would have already been eaten than otherwise, or some fights might be tougher or something.

Like ME2, but without the ability to just put off fetching the IFF forever.

Modifié par Wulfram, 16 août 2013 - 09:16 .

[Fast Jimmy]

EntropicAngel wrote...

That's why I made a thread recently about not liking all these "SAVE THE WORLD EVErYTHING IS FALLING" plots.

Although, from everything we've seen, Inquisition's entire plot premise is "Orlesian Civil War! Mage/Templar War! Secret Warden Agenda! Demons falling from the sky! Save us from everything falling apart, Inquisitor!"

Which would preclude, one would think, "yeah, sure... but what's up with this cave? I'm going to go spelunking for gold here for a few hours/days..." moments.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 16 août 2013 - 09:50 .

[Blazomancer]

The game will supposedly have large areas to explore but you can't because the sky is falling. Nice!

[legbamel]

I like the idea of having level-range areas that open up as you progress, or even that are open the whole time but which hand you your butt if you go too early. I also like the idea of "elites" in certain areas that present a major challenge or still offer interesting combat for the over-levelled completionist. The idea of gating off content based on level, however, I hate. If I want to go back to Orlais and show that monster in that cave who kicked my ass a thing or two, I should be able to do so.

[Fast Jimmy]

legbamel wrote...

I like the idea of having level-range areas that open up as you progress, or even that are open the whole time but which hand you your butt if you go too early. I also like the idea of "elites" in certain areas that present a major challenge or still offer interesting combat for the over-levelled completionist. The idea of gating off content based on level, however, I hate. If I want to go back to Orlais and show that monster in that cave who kicked my ass a thing or two, I should be able to do so.

But what if you are in Ferelden and it takes weeks/months to go back to Orlais? It honestly wouldn't make sense for your character to backtrack that much during a war/demonic invasion/crisis simply to cash in on some gold or settle a score with a Level 7 Angry Turtle or whatever.  I mean, how could you seriously justify that?

[LinksOcarina]

EntropicAngel wrote...

The enemies of a similar type could be reskinned, or something similar to reskins. XIII did this.

An early-game enemy with 7,400 HP:



A similar, later-game enemy with 39,700 HP:




However, if it didn't FORCE the plot, but rather merely opened it up to you at that time (as ME2 did with the later missions--though Horizon and the Collector Ship were forced) allowing you to do it--I like that idea. That basically requires you to spend time exploring, doing sidequests, etc.

Welcome to typical design101. This is nothing thats never been done before, since almost all story-driven RPGs do this deisgn aspect, including forcing the plot to move forward. Heck, Baldur's Gate did it a lot too. It's sort of part and parcel if you are telling a story.

[nightcobra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I like the idea of having level-range areas that open up as you progress, or even that are open the whole time but which hand you your butt if you go too early. I also like the idea of "elites" in certain areas that present a major challenge or still offer interesting combat for the over-levelled completionist. The idea of gating off content based on level, however, I hate. If I want to go back to Orlais and show that monster in that cave who kicked my ass a thing or two, I should be able to do so.

But what if you are in Ferelden and it takes weeks/months to go back to Orlais? It honestly wouldn't make sense for your character to backtrack that much during a war/demonic invasion/crisis simply to cash in on some gold or settle a score with a Level 7 Angry Turtle or whatever.  I mean, how could you seriously justify that?

Inquisitor: I am the main character, you kicked my ass, prepare to die.


seriously though, it could be justified if what's in that cave/location is important enough for you to consider backtracking , like a book with a new spell, a ancient suit of magic armor or more information about the big hole in the sky.

also, the inquisition could have a few small bases around the countries besides their main stronghold, precisely for that backtracking reason, why go all the way to the main fort when a small base is nearer to your position?

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 19 août 2013 - 04:58 .

[azarhal]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

That's why I made a thread recently about not liking all these "SAVE THE WORLD EVErYTHING IS FALLING" plots.

Although, from everything we've seen, Inquisition's entire plot premise is "Orlesian Civil War! Mage/Templar War! Secret Warden Agenda! Demons falling from the sky! Save us from everything falling apart, Inquisitor!"

Which would preclude, one would think, "yeah, sure... but what's up with this cave? I'm going to go spelunking for gold here for a few hours/days..." moments.

But that cave might have the solution to end the Demon Invasion!!!

[Fast Jimmy]

Hundreds, thousands could die with a delay lasting months. It think it would need to be something substantially more important than a new spell or set of armor.

And if it really would help with the demons pouring in from the Fade (or something similarly plot-key), I don't think the game would let you move forward to another country.

[nightcobra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Hundreds, thousands could die with a delay lasting months. It think it would need to be something substantially more important than a new spell or set of armor.

And if it really would help with the demons pouring in from the Fade (or something similarly plot-key), I don't think the game would let you move forward to another country.

an eluvian in each stronghold would come in really handy, interstate travel would be less of a hassle:wizard:

[Fast Jimmy]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Hundreds, thousands could die with a delay lasting months. It think it would need to be something substantially more important than a new spell or set of armor.

And if it really would help with the demons pouring in from the Fade (or something similarly plot-key), I don't think the game would let you move forward to another country.

an eluvian in each stronghold would come in really handy, interstate travel would be less of a hassle:wizard:

If they want to do so, they'd have a few narrative/lore hurdles to leap, but that could work. But will they want to is the question?

[nightcobra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Hundreds, thousands could die with a delay lasting months. It think it would need to be something substantially more important than a new spell or set of armor.

And if it really would help with the demons pouring in from the Fade (or something similarly plot-key), I don't think the game would let you move forward to another country.

an eluvian in each stronghold would come in really handy, interstate travel would be less of a hassle:wizard:

If they want to do so, they'd have a few narrative/lore hurdles to leap, but that could work. But will they want to is the question?

We could always recruit Feynriel, or another dreamer (if there is one) and have him help us traverse the fade into another location.

[nightcobra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

We could always recruit Feynriel, or another dreamer (if there is one) and have him help us traverse the fade into another location.

Your body stays in one location when you go into the Fade. you couldn't use it to magically teleport around.

Furthermore on the talk of eluvians--where are we getting that you can use them like portals between other eluvians? As far as I thought, they could be used for communication, but going THROUGH one led to some other dimension.

always thought that feynriel travelled to tevinter through the fade, if i was wrong thoufh, ah well...

on to the eluvians, if you can communicate to another location in thedas and connect it to pass throught to another dimension, i think it'd be possible to make it a portal to another location in thedas, provided there's an eluvian on the other end.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 19 août 2013 - 05:49 .

[Fast Jimmy]

^

You are correct about Feynriel, for what it's worth. If you save him from the demons, he uses his newfound powers to transport himself directly to Tevinter via the Fade through somniari magic.

[esper]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

We could always recruit Feynriel, or another dreamer (if there is one) and have him help us traverse the fade into another location.

Your body stays in one location when you go into the Fade. you couldn't use it to magically teleport around.

Furthermore on the talk of eluvians--where are we getting that you can use them like portals between other eluvians? As far as I thought, they could be used for communication, but going THROUGH one led to some other dimension.

always thought that feynriel travelled to tevinter through the fade, if i was wrong thoufh, ag well...

on to the eluvians, if you can communicate to another location in thedas and connect it to pass throught to another dimension, i think it'd be possible to make it a portal to another location in thedas, provided there's an eluvian on the other end.

Fenryel can transport himself, but there is no hint he can transport other people, in fact the girl he saves in act 3 he saves long distance.

[nightcobra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Whoa. I did NOT know that at all. You guys sure?


I'm pretty sure it says within one of the magic codexes that mages have never found a way to teleport themselves around.

and those codexes were written by people from thedas, so it would be wise as to not take all their information as granted.
it's a way for the writers to safely retcon anything in the world, they can just say the one who wrote the codex was wrong or didn't know enough that there could be an exception to the rule .

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 19 août 2013 - 06:08 .

[ScarMK]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Whoa. I did NOT know that at all. You guys sure?


I'm pretty sure it says within one of the magic codexes that mages have never found a way to teleport themselves around.

and those codexes were written by people from thedas, so it would be wise as to not take all their information as granted.
it's a way for the writers to safely retcon anything in the world, they can just say the one who wrote the codex was wrong or didn't know enough that there could be an exception to the rule .

Considering when Gaider tried to explain the teleporting mages, he didn't say that the codex was wrong, but merely tried to handwave it as the mages turning invisible and running really fast.  So I would take it as the codex still being correct.

[nightcobra]

ScarMK wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Whoa. I did NOT know that at all. You guys sure?


I'm pretty sure it says within one of the magic codexes that mages have never found a way to teleport themselves around.

and those codexes were written by people from thedas, so it would be wise as to not take all their information as granted.
it's a way for the writers to safely retcon anything in the world, they can just say the one who wrote the codex was wrong or didn't know enough that there could be an exception to the rule .

Considering when Gaider tried to explain the teleporting mages, he didn't say that the codex was wrong, but merely tried to handwave it as the mages turning invisible and running really fast.  So I would take it as the codex still being correct.

for now:devil:


and those mages weren't dreamers:whistle:

[legbamel]

Given how little BioWare games pay attention to travel time, I hardly think they'll make a fuss about it for this one example. You hoofed it back and forth across Ferelden--without mounts--to go from Orzammar to Denerim and back without concerning yourself in the least with the Blight that was eating the country alive. I'm not sure why you think I need to justify travel time for completionist purposes just because it's a nominally bigger distance.

However, if most of the plot revolves around events in the starting region there's likely to be reason to revisit the area throughout the game. That may apply less to the rest of Thedas but Orlais in particular could be a country we return to a few times.

[Navasha]

I would guess, as a completionist myself, that the game will proceed at the speed of plot like most every game out there. Things happen when you show up.

From a developer standpoint, its pretty bad game design to do it any other way. If you spend your development time creating 40 hours of content for a game, but your average player is only going to see 20 hours of it because you rushed them along, then people are going to complain about the SHORT 20 hour game.

A few timed missions are sometimes nice and thrown in there, but very rarely are you going to have an entire game where events just proceed without you because you took too long to get there. I never had a problem ever being "cut off" in Mass Effect either, since I always do all the tasks that are not following the main plot first.