251 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

MevenSelas wrote...

DAI is about the international community. The international community is heavily human-centric. Your place in society (background) is probably less significant than your race. Imagine being an elf and trying to convince the Orlesian people to help you fight demons. A human will definitely have better luck, considering that there is no intrinsic bias towards what THAT particular human should be in life. ANY elf is just an elf to these people. They are intrinsically viewed as tools, rather than equals. I can't imagine different human backgrounds having greater reactivity than racial differences.

Imagine a peasant human with no wealth or even a last name attempting to command nobles to cooperate. He would be laughed out of the castle. There very much is class bias in Thedas, no matter your race.

[Sylvianus]

Don't worry Austig, the inquisition will be independent from the chantry according to Mike and Darrah lol.

[Iron Fist]

Ausstig wrote...

Because they are changing their games to respond to a few people on the internt, and they are trying to be like Skyrim, with open world and mounts. If I want Skyrim I will play Skyrim ( or Oblivion if I am feeling cheap) this is what happened with ME3 they made it like COD, if I want COD I will play COD. When I buy a DA game I want to play DA mot Skyrim. 

I will remain unconvinced until I see actual in game footage (not pre-alpha), I was fooled leading into ME3, a lot of us were. So I will not let that happen again. 

You do know that Dragon Age is the spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series, the series that put BioWare on the map? The series that had at least 5 different playable races?

Restricting us to human in DA2 was nothing more than an attempt to turn it into a fantasy version of Mass Effect, which was already a first person shooter (like COD) by ME2.

[Iron Fist]

Zanallen wrote...

Imagine a peasant human with no wealth or even a last name attempting to command nobles to cooperate. He would be laughed out of the castle. There very much is class bias in Thedas, no matter your race.

Cassandra, a noble, could easily help you with that.

[Nefla]

MevenSelas wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Imagine a peasant human with no wealth or even a last name attempting to command nobles to cooperate. He would be laughed out of the castle. There very much is class bias in Thedas, no matter your race.

Cassandra, a noble, could easily help you with that.

Also by that time, you're the battle hardened elite warrior and leader of a powerful organization, your background is all but negated but your race isn't.

[Ausstig]

MevenSelas wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I would love for real reactivity, but I don't see how race choice is inherently any more reactive than background choice.

DAI is about the international community. The international community is heavily human-centric. Your place in society (background) is probably less significant than your race. Imagine being an elf and trying to convince the Orlesian people to help you fight demons. A human will definitely have better luck, considering that there is no intrinsic bias towards what THAT particular human should be in life. ANY elf is just an elf to these people. They are intrinsically viewed as tools, rather than equals. I can't imagine different human backgrounds having greater reactivity than racial differences.

But does that make sense?

I could not imagen a Jew (who the Elves are very much equivilant too) running around and uniting western Europe in the middleages. Could you?  

[Zanallen]

MevenSelas wrote...
Cassandra, a noble, could easily help you with that.

She could do the same for an elf or a dwarf. She is from the royal family of Nevarra and has close ties to the Divine. I would imagine she would have a lot of sway regardless of your PC choice,

[Sylvianus]

Ausstig wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I would love for real reactivity, but I don't see how race choice is inherently any more reactive than background choice.

DAI is about the international community. The international community is heavily human-centric. Your place in society (background) is probably less significant than your race. Imagine being an elf and trying to convince the Orlesian people to help you fight demons. A human will definitely have better luck, considering that there is no intrinsic bias towards what THAT particular human should be in life. ANY elf is just an elf to these people. They are intrinsically viewed as tools, rather than equals. I can't imagine different human backgrounds having greater reactivity than racial differences.

But does that make sense?

I could not imagen a Jew (who the Elves are very much equivilant too) running around and uniting western Europe in the middleages. Could you?  

If the world is going to be destroyed... if the world is close to its end... I'm fairly certain they will accept anyone able to..  you know save them from the demons, to lead them, with the necessarily strength, intelligence and skills to impress them at the same time...

Did you see that kind of situation in the middle age ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 août 2013 - 02:48 .

[Ausstig]

MevenSelas wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Because they are changing their games to respond to a few people on the internt, and they are trying to be like Skyrim, with open world and mounts. If I want Skyrim I will play Skyrim ( or Oblivion if I am feeling cheap) this is what happened with ME3 they made it like COD, if I want COD I will play COD. When I buy a DA game I want to play DA mot Skyrim. 

I will remain unconvinced until I see actual in game footage (not pre-alpha), I was fooled leading into ME3, a lot of us were. So I will not let that happen again. 

You do know that Dragon Age is the spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series, the series that put BioWare on the map? The series that had at least 5 different playable races?

Restricting us to human in DA2 was nothing more than an attempt to turn it into a fantasy version of Mass Effect, which was already a first person shooter (like COD) by ME2.

So what if it's a spiritual successor to a game I never played, being a successor in the spiritual form does not mean it has to be exactly like the other game. 

Or it was needed in their attempt to tell a focused story about a family, that doesn't work if you can be an Elf. In general there is nothing wrong with a Fantsay version of Mass Effect, it was a series of very sucessful games. 

the Mass Effect series was never an FPS it was over the shoulder shooter. ME2 had more shooting, but still felt like an RPG, at least until the final convo with TIM (role playing lol more like railroading), ME3 was like a shooter with long cutscenes. 

Sylvianus wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I would love for real reactivity, but I don't see how race choice is inherently any more reactive than background choice.

DAI is about the international community. The international community is heavily human-centric. Your place in society (background) is probably less significant than your race. Imagine being an elf and trying to convince the Orlesian people to help you fight demons. A human will definitely have better luck, considering that there is no intrinsic bias towards what THAT particular human should be in life. ANY elf is just an elf to these people. They are intrinsically viewed as tools, rather than equals. I can't imagine different human backgrounds having greater reactivity than racial differences.

But does that make sense?

I could not imagen a Jew (who the Elves are very much equivilant too) running around and uniting western Europe in the middleages. Could you?  

If the world is going to be destroyed... if the world is close to its end... I'm fairly certain they will accept anyone able to..  you know save them from the demons, to lead them, with the necessarily strength, intelligence and skills to impress them at the same time...

Did you see that kind of situation in the middle age ? 

No but if you think the nobles would work witha 'christ killer' then you are wrong.  They would, as the saying goes hang speratly 

Nor do I see the  Nobles of Orlais working with an Elf if the Elves are rebeling.

I also got the feeling that Dawarfs were mostly in Ferldain, are they other large groups outside of there and Tevinter?

If the solution is just to have Cas deal with them then how is anything added by the races, over backgrounds? 

Modifié par Ausstig, 15 août 2013 - 02:59 .

[Ausstig]

double post

Modifié par Ausstig, 15 août 2013 - 03:00 .

[Iron Fist]

Ausstig wrote...

So what if it's a spiritual successor to a game I never played, being a successor in the spiritual form does not mean it has to be exactly like the other game. 

Or it was needed in their attempt to tell a focused story about a family, that doesn't work if you can be an Elf. In general there is nothing wrong with a Fantsay version of Mass Effect, it was a series of very sucessful games. 

the Mass Effect series was never an FPS it was over the shoulder shooter. ME2 had more shooting, but still felt like an RPG, at least until the final convo with TIM (role playing lol more like railroading), ME3 was like a shooter with long cutscenes. 

Did you ever stop and consider why they made DA2 a "more focused" story? EA rushed it into production, which is why it was released 7 MONTHS after DAO's Witch Hunt DLC. I guarantee you they had several other story ideas that were scraped in production. Just look at DA2's plot. It is essentially 2 or 3 different games mashed together (Hawke's rags to riches story, the Qunari invasion, and the escalation of the conflict between mages and templars). They didn't develop one story fully enough for the game.

And Mass Effect 2 is definitely a shooter, man. No amount of skill progression changes that, especially considering they removed so many things from Mass Effect 1.

Modifié par MevenSelas, 15 août 2013 - 03:04 .

[Ausstig]

MevenSelas wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

So what if it's a spiritual successor to a game I never played, being a successor in the spiritual form does not mean it has to be exactly like the other game. 

Or it was needed in their attempt to tell a focused story about a family, that doesn't work if you can be an Elf. In general there is nothing wrong with a Fantsay version of Mass Effect, it was a series of very sucessful games. 

the Mass Effect series was never an FPS it was over the shoulder shooter. ME2 had more shooting, but still felt like an RPG, at least until the final convo with TIM (role playing lol more like railroading), ME3 was like a shooter with long cutscenes. 

Did you ever stop and consider why they made DA2 a "more focused" story? EA rushed it into production, which is why it was released 7 MONTHS after DAO's Witch Hunt DLC. I guarantee you they had several other story ideas that were scraped in production. Just look at DA2's plot. It is essentially 2 or 3 different games mashed together (Hawke's rags to riches story, the Qunari invasion, and the escalation of the conflict between mages and templars). They didn't develop one story fully enough for the game.

And Mass Effect 2 is definitely a shooter, man. No amount of skill progression changes that, especially considering they removed so many things from Mass Effect 1.

I know DA2's plot was unfocused, that was the main flaw. Not the single race not the voiced pc, unfocused plot, I ahve said this in the DA2 fourms, but the first plot, only works if you are human. 

In ME2 I still felt like I was making choices and directing the game , much more then ME3, the dlc also gave me a hover tank. But by your logic isn't ME 1 a shooter? Isn't DA a hack and slash? What do you mean no amount of skill progresion?

[Iron Fist]

Ausstig wrote...

I know DA2's plot was unfocused, that was the main flaw. Not the single race not the voiced pc, unfocused plot, I ahve said this in the DA2 fourms, but the first plot, only works if you are human. 

In ME2 I still felt like I was making choices and directing the game , much more then ME3, the dlc also gave me a hover tank. But by your logic isn't ME 1 a shooter? Isn't DA a hack and slash? What do you mean no amount of skill progresion?

There were elven and dwarven refugees in Ferelden. It could have easily been a game about rebellion in Kirkwall. For elves, dwarves, or human peasants.

Mass Effect 2's combat is twitch-based (rather than skill-based). That's a shooter, my friend.

Modifié par MevenSelas, 15 août 2013 - 03:31 .

[Phoenix_Fyre]

I just found this out today

I was gonna play a human female warrior

but now my elven mage/warrior will strike again!

[Razored1313]

I am very happy with this news, as i can now have a protagonist of every (originally playable) race in my continuity (dwarf warden, human hawke, and elf inquisitor) however i hope we are not from Ferelden again, anywhere else would be nice.

[aMytallica]

This is pretty great news. Getting more and more excited about the release of this game.

Regardless of the amount of people that actually want to play as anything other than human, choice is never a bad thing. I always played as human in Origins, but only because I was never overly fussed at the elf and dwarf designs. However, they are looking pretty amazing if this vid is anything to go by.

[Rolling Flame]

I wonder if there will be a couple of backgrounds to choose from.

[Shadow Fox]

Ausstig wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

So he admits they caved to some loud whiny fans and it will cost them money they could have spent make a better game.

Good work fans<_<

While it's true that most people play as humans, the number of those who play the game as elves and dwarves are by no mean insignificant. It's a feature that add immersion to the game and to the role-playing experience. While I often play as humans in my first playthrough in any game that allow race customization, that doesn't meant that I couldn't be happy for those that have the race customization back. Race customization could be part of what make Inquisition game great. You can't tell at this point. 

Or it could detract from from the story, having it make less sense and taking some time/money away from inproving ALL of the game. 

I liked the races in DA:O, but I didn't miss them, they were part of the story in the first game, it was a quick way to build the world. Here we already know the world, it smacks of 'perfect entry for new players' like they called ME3. 

So forgive me for not being swept up in the knee-jerk 180, you enjoy it. 

The world's tearing its self apart but the guys trying to stop it won't let possible help join because they're not human? How does that make sense?

[Melca36]

Faerunner wrote...

LupoCarlos wrote...

 http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/08/14/the-return-of-races-in-dragon-age-inquisition.aspx

This video thrills me on so many levels! Everything is good news!

"Bringing [race selection] back was 100% based on fan feedback."

Wow. Um... suddenly I feel very vindicated begging for race selection to come back all this time. I've suspected for months, but it feels weird being confirmed by a developer that this game feature would not have returned if people who loved it didn't request it. The extra time made it happen too (which I'm grateful for), but still...

"You don't need to go universal with it, but the one or two times (or four or five times) that someone reacts to the fact that you are an elf in a very specific and very poignant way... It's gratifying as a designer; I think it's gratifying as a player."

Yes, Mike Laidlaw. I can promise you, as a play, that is a very gratifying part of gameplay for many players. It's certainly a feature that I fell in love with in DA:O, and one that I'm also prepared to go to war over (right alongside the dwarf fans, heh).

"Playing an elf or playing a dwarf puts you in a very interesting situation."

Ah, music to my pointed ears.

"... Where you're less trusted, less able to build that trust... Definitely, in some cases, it is simply going to make things more difficult."
And that's what makes it all the more rewarding when we succeed! I leap to the challenge!

Hope this means this is the end of people bashing on the human characters and the people who play them and get as much enjoyment as they did with the other races

Modifié par Melca36, 15 août 2013 - 04:54 .

[Shadow Fox]

Ausstig wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Because they are changing their games to respond to a few people on the internt, and they are trying to be like Skyrim, with open world and mounts. If I want Skyrim I will play Skyrim ( or Oblivion if I am feeling cheap) this is what happened with ME3 they made it like COD, if I want COD I will play COD. When I buy a DA game I want to play DA mot Skyrim. 

I will remain unconvinced until I see actual in game footage (not pre-alpha), I was fooled leading into ME3, a lot of us were. So I will not let that happen again. 

You do know that Dragon Age is the spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series, the series that put BioWare on the map? The series that had at least 5 different playable races?

Restricting us to human in DA2 was nothing more than an attempt to turn it into a fantasy version of Mass Effect, which was already a first person shooter (like COD) by ME2.

So what if it's a spiritual successor to a game I never played, being a successor in the spiritual form does not mean it has to be exactly like the other game. 

Or it was needed in their attempt to tell a focused story about a family, that doesn't work if you can be an Elf. In general there is nothing wrong with a Fantsay version of Mass Effect, it was a series of very sucessful games. 

the Mass Effect series was never an FPS it was over the shoulder shooter. ME2 had more shooting, but still felt like an RPG, at least until the final convo with TIM (role playing lol more like railroading), ME3 was like a shooter with long cutscenes. 

Sylvianus wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

I would love for real reactivity, but I don't see how race choice is inherently any more reactive than background choice.

DAI is about the international community. The international community is heavily human-centric. Your place in society (background) is probably less significant than your race. Imagine being an elf and trying to convince the Orlesian people to help you fight demons. A human will definitely have better luck, considering that there is no intrinsic bias towards what THAT particular human should be in life. ANY elf is just an elf to these people. They are intrinsically viewed as tools, rather than equals. I can't imagine different human backgrounds having greater reactivity than racial differences.

But does that make sense?

I could not imagen a Jew (who the Elves are very much equivilant too) running around and uniting western Europe in the middleages. Could you?  

If the world is going to be destroyed... if the world is close to its end... I'm fairly certain they will accept anyone able to..  you know save them from the demons, to lead them, with the necessarily strength, intelligence and skills to impress them at the same time...

Did you see that kind of situation in the middle age ? 

No but if you think the nobles would work witha 'christ killer' then you are wrong.  They would, as the saying goes hang speratly 

Nor do I see the  Nobles of Orlais working with an Elf if the Elves are rebeling.

I also got the feeling that Dawarfs were mostly in Ferldain, are they other large groups outside of there and Tevinter?

If the solution is just to have Cas deal with them then how is anything added by the races, over backgrounds? 

Elves and Dwarves can't have families?

Ignoring that the Chantry's most likely in shambles and that Elves and Dwarves can be Andrastian how would being human only help this?And they will if they don't want to die.
Yes
How is anything lost?

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 15 août 2013 - 05:22 .

[Ausstig]

[quote]Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

[quote]Ausstig wrote...

[quote]MevenSelas wrote...

[quote]Ausstig wrote...

Because they are changing their games to respond to a few people on the internt, and they are trying to be like Skyrim, with open world and mounts. If I want Skyrim I will play Skyrim ( or Oblivion if I am feeling cheap) this is what happened with ME3 they made it like COD, if I want COD I will play COD. When I buy a DA game I want to play DA mot Skyrim. 

I will remain unconvinced until I see actual in game footage (not pre-alpha), I was fooled leading into ME3, a lot of us were. So I will not let that happen again. 

[/quote]

You do know that Dragon Age is the spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series, the series that put BioWare on the map? The series that had at least 5 different playable races?

Restricting us to human in DA2 was nothing more than an attempt to turn it into a fantasy version of Mass Effect, which was already a first person shooter (like COD) by ME2.

[/quote]

So what if it's a spiritual successor to a game I never played, being a successor in the spiritual form does not mean it has to be exactly like the other game. 

Or it was needed in their attempt to tell a focused story about a family, that doesn't work if you can be an Elf. In general there is nothing wrong with a Fantsay version of Mass Effect, it was a series of very sucessful games. 

the Mass Effect series was never an FPS it was over the shoulder shooter. ME2 had more shooting, but still felt like an RPG, at least until the final convo with TIM (role playing lol more like railroading), ME3 was like a shooter with long cutscenes. 

[quote]Sylvianus wrote...

[quote]Ausstig wrote...

[quote]MevenSelas wrote...

[quote]Zanallen wrote...

I would love for real reactivity, but I don't see how race choice is inherently any more reactive than background choice.

[/quote]

DAI is about the international community. The international community is heavily human-centric. Your place in society (background) is probably less significant than your race. Imagine being an elf and trying to convince the Orlesian people to help you fight demons. A human will definitely have better luck, considering that there is no intrinsic bias towards what THAT particular human should be in life. ANY elf is just an elf to these people. They are intrinsically viewed as tools, rather than equals. I can't imagine different human backgrounds having greater reactivity than racial differences.

[/quote]

But does that make sense?

I could not imagen a Jew (who the Elves are very much equivilant too) running around and uniting western Europe in the middleages. Could you?  

[/quote]
If the world is going to be destroyed... if the world is close to its end... I'm fairly certain they will accept anyone able to..  you know save them from the demons, to lead them, with the necessarily strength, intelligence and skills to impress them at the same time...

Did you see that kind of situation in the middle age ? 


[/quote]

No but if you think the nobles would work witha 'christ killer' then you are wrong.  They would, as the saying goes hang speratly 

Nor do I see the  Nobles of Orlais working with an Elf if the Elves are rebeling.

I also got the feeling that Dawarfs were mostly in Ferldain, are they other large groups outside of there and Tevinter?

If the solution is just to have Cas deal with them then how is anything added by the races, over backgrounds? 


[/quote]Elves and Dwarves can't have families?

Ignoring that the Chantry's most likely in shambles and that Elves and Dwarves can be Andrastian how would being human only help this?And they will if they don't want to die.
Yes
How is anything lost?



[/quote]

Dawarves can't have mage sisters can they. Elves (actual Elves siince any interbreading results in humans:() can't be nobility. 

How do we know it is in Shambles? 

Did all the local churches fall? 

Did they lose all their belivers? 

The top levels MAY be thined out a bit, but the grass roots should still be there, which is where you can get supourt and the Nobles are likely to be less hostile to someone of the same religion/race.

Is anything gained? Unless they want to record new lines for the three races (which would be nice but probs isn't happening to any great extent ie more the like 10[or maybe %10 and that is being super generious] lines through out the game) why do it? what is gained? why do fantasy games need to have race selection no one complained when Mass Effect made you play as a human? Being an Alien in SWTOR doen't effect the game in any major way and I think the same will be true here.

What is added?[quote]Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

[/quote]The world's tearing its self apart but the guys trying to stop it won't let possible help join because they're not human? How does that make sense?
[/quote]

You don't know anything about history do you? 

If you did you would know that pride has gotten a lot of people killed needlessly. Such as in the battle of Tanenburg (sp?) on the ww1 eastern front, the two Russian Generals hated each other so they marched seperatly and got destroyed. Or the Battle that established the Tokugawa Shoganate, the enemies of Tokugawa where divided and fell, also in the lead up to the third Cursade the Kingdom of Jeruslam was destoryed due to foolish pride of it's leaders. I am sure there are other examples but these spring to mind first. 

[Shadow Fox]

Do they need to?A mage can't either didn't stop Hawke.
Nothing more then what is gained from selectable classes,genders or any form of customization.
The Circles have collapsed.
The Templars have rebelled and are fighting an all out war with mages
The  veil is torn and demons are running amok and the Chantry can't  do anything about it thus has most likely lost a good deal of it's power and influence as a result of all this.
First don't be a dick second African Americans fought in The Revolutionary and Civil Wars and WW2 despite being heavily discriminated against during those times so yes in times of crisis people can put aside their prejudices if it means more arms.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 15 août 2013 - 06:19 .

[Mecha Elf]

Should bioware have cut being a Mage out of DA2 then? I mean it doesn't make any sense for knight commander Meredith to let a possible blood Mage run loose right? The fact is that this is also just a game and if people started to point out things that don't make any sense in video games it would be anarchy. Okay I'm exaggerating but still. The inquisition has respect mabye if you're an elf you don't have alot yet but you must earn it or prove it. If the warden was an elf you'd think the landsmeet wouldn't give them a time of day any day or any ferelden that you come across. But not all npcs are the same so they will act differently. People like to role play and being either a dwarf elf or human can be different experiences for different people... It's like saying have a rogue class when it's the same as being a warrior when involved in storyline or character interaction? Why have CHaracter Customization for hair and nose size etc etc, when it adds absolutely nothing to the story other than your own enjoyment? All these options are enjoyable to different people. Even in the video they said it was money worth spent. & personally when I played as the city elf in DA:O I did feel like the underdog which was awesome for me. It may not be awesome for some but it awesome for me. And that goes for people who like playing as other races. It's all about personal enjoyment.

[Shadow Fox]

Mecha Elf wrote...

Should bioware have cut being a Mage out of DA2 then? I mean it doesn't make any sense for knight commander Meredith to let a possible blood Mage run loose right? The fact is that this is also just a game and if people started to point out things that don't make any sense in video games it would be anarchy. Okay I'm exaggerating but still. The inquisition has respect mabye if you're an elf you don't have alot yet but you must earn it or prove it. If the warden was an elf you'd think the landsmeet wouldn't give them a time of day any day or any ferelden that you come across. But not all npcs are the same so they will act differently. People like to role play and being either a dwarf elf or human can be different experiences for different people... It's like saying have a rogue class when it's the same as being a warrior when involved in storyline or character interaction? Why have CHaracter Customization for hair and nose size etc etc, when it adds absolutely nothing to the story other than your own enjoyment? All these options are enjoyable to different people. Even in the video they said it was money worth spent. & personally when I played as the city elf in DA:O I did feel like the underdog which was awesome for me. It may not be awesome for some but it awesome for me. And that goes for people who like playing as other races. It's all about personal enjoyment.

Exactly my Elf brother/sister.