251 réponses à ce sujet

[Ausstig]

MevenSelas wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

No, I would not care as it would show more backbone then caving to the 'fans' like they did. I was fine with things how they were, I dislike pointless change, espically change driven by baseless complaints based upon nothing more then the name!?. 

You didn't even know how things were. You only think you knew, based on what they said previously. You never saw what it was going to be.

And backbone? They've been pretty upfront about why they are doing this. THAT is backbone, to admit your mistakes and try to fix them. To be transparent and open.

And that's just a market economy, dude. If you don't like it, go to North Korea.

No having faith in your vision and sticking to it is backbone, there is a difference between admiting mistakes, and what happened. They just caved into the 'mob' for lack of a better term. They just caved no back bone, no admiting mistakes, they just went, "well these people are 'loud' give them what they want"

Also what do you mean by the 'market economy'? it is driven by supply and demand, also money. Are you saying poeple's demands are the market? If people were serious about their complaints then they would not buy, this would have driven change. EA is frightened by the ME3 reaction and has decided to either:

Give the Devs the time and money they need to make a good game

OR

Told the Devs to cave to the loud fans,

Maybe both.

 

[Iron Fist]

Ausstig wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

You didn't even know how things were. You only think you knew, based on what they said previously. You never saw what it was going to be.

And backbone? They've been pretty upfront about why they are doing this. THAT is backbone, to admit your mistakes and try to fix them. To be transparent and open.

And that's just a market economy, dude. If you don't like it, go to North Korea.

No having faith in your vision and sticking to it is backbone, there is a difference between admiting mistakes, and what happened. They just caved into the 'mob' for lack of a better term. They just caved no back bone, no admiting mistakes, they just went, "well these people are 'loud' give them what they want"

Also what do you mean by the 'market economy'? it is driven by supply and demand, also money. Are you saying poeple's demands are the market? If people were serious about their complaints then they would not buy, this would have driven change. EA is frightened by the ME3 reaction and has decided to either:

Give the Devs the time and money they need to make a good game

OR

Told the Devs to cave to the loud fans,

Maybe both.

Let me present you with your own hypocrisy, Ausstig.

Exhibit A:

Ausstig wrote...

Besides after ME3 I will assume the worst until proven otherwise. Do not be taken in by their promises, trust what you see and assume the worst of what you hear. That is what ME3 taught me.

Exhibit B:

Ausstig wrote...

No, I would not care as it would show more backbone then caving to the 'fans' like they did. I was fine with things how they were, I dislike pointless change, espically change driven by baseless complaints based upon nothing more then the name!?.

We only HEARD about the original human-only vision for the game, we never SAW it. 

We don't know exactly when that changed.

Modifié par MevenSelas, 15 août 2013 - 12:32 .

[Ziggeh]

Ausstig wrote...

No having faith in your vision and sticking to it is backbone

They are in a medium where their vision is determined by resources. How do you know that their original "vision" of a single race protagonist wasn't an imposition of available resources?

You're making assumptions about their development process when you've already established your understanding of it is reductive and flawed.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 15 août 2013 - 12:37 .

[Ausstig]

MevenSelas wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

MevenSelas wrote...

You didn't even know how things were. You only think you knew, based on what they said previously. You never saw what it was going to be.

And backbone? They've been pretty upfront about why they are doing this. THAT is backbone, to admit your mistakes and try to fix them. To be transparent and open.

And that's just a market economy, dude. If you don't like it, go to North Korea.

No having faith in your vision and sticking to it is backbone, there is a difference between admiting mistakes, and what happened. They just caved into the 'mob' for lack of a better term. They just caved no back bone, no admiting mistakes, they just went, "well these people are 'loud' give them what they want"

Also what do you mean by the 'market economy'? it is driven by supply and demand, also money. Are you saying poeple's demands are the market? If people were serious about their complaints then they would not buy, this would have driven change. EA is frightened by the ME3 reaction and has decided to either:

Give the Devs the time and money they need to make a good game

OR

Told the Devs to cave to the loud fans,

Maybe both.

Let me present you with your own hypocrisy, Ausstig.

Exhibit A:

Ausstig wrote...

Besides after ME3 I will assume the worst until proven otherwise. Do not be taken in by their promises, trust what you see and assume the worst of what you hear. That is what ME3 taught me.

Exhibit B:

Ausstig wrote...

No, I would not care as it would show more backbone then caving to the 'fans' like they did. I was fine with things how they were, I dislike pointless change, espically change driven by baseless complaints based upon nothing more then the name!?.

We only HEARD about the original human-only vision for the game, we never SAW it. 

We don't know exactly when that changed.

Right we don't what changed, so I assume it will be for the worst, now follow the yatzee approach to 

I know what they said "Races choice", "Oppose the Chantry", "Based %100 on fan feadback".

Also there was no shortage of people whining about the game based on what they heard. So if they can be rewarded why not me?

Modifié par Ausstig, 15 août 2013 - 12:45 .

[The Elder King]

To be fair, Ausstig, Darrah and Laidlaw already told us last year that they wanted to bring back race options, but they couldn't for DAI for some reasons (time and budget restraints, probably). After the time extension, they decided to include them. And regardless of fan feedback, they explained in the video interview that creating various playable races, with all the differences between them, is interesting for them too.

[Ausstig]

hhh89 wrote...

To be fair, Ausstig, Darrah and Laidlaw already told us last year that they wanted to bring back race options, but they couldn't for DAI for some reasons (time and budget restraints, probably). After the time extension, they decided to include them. And regardless of fan feedback, they explained in the video interview that creating various playable races, with all the differences between them, is interesting for them too.

Where did you hear that ( the last year part?)

[The Elder King]

Ausstig wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

To be fair, Ausstig, Darrah and Laidlaw already told us last year that they wanted to bring back race options, but they couldn't for DAI for some reasons (time and budget restraints, probably). After the time extension, they decided to include them. And regardless of fan feedback, they explained in the video interview that creating various playable races, with all the differences between them, is interesting for them too.

Where did you hear that ( the last year part?)

Last year, there were some posts here after the announcement of the human-only PC. They said that they decided to not bring back race options for some reasons, but that they wanted to bring it back. Some people thought that they were only trying to calm down the fanbase with a future promise, but it was proven to be wrong, since they brought them back when they got a time extension.

Modifié par hhh89, 15 août 2013 - 12:59 .

[Ausstig]

hhh89 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

To be fair, Ausstig, Darrah and Laidlaw already told us last year that they wanted to bring back race options, but they couldn't for DAI for some reasons (time and budget restraints, probably). After the time extension, they decided to include them. And regardless of fan feedback, they explained in the video interview that creating various playable races, with all the differences between them, is interesting for them too.

Where did you hear that ( the last year part?)

Last year, there were some posts here after the announcement of the human-only PC. They said that they decided to not bring back race options for some reasons, but that they wanted to bring it back. Some people thought that they were only trying to calm down the fanbase with a future promise, but it was proven to be wrong, since they brought the back she they got a time extension.

hummm I will consider this. 

[Catroi]

OOOOOOH YEEEEEAH

[Dirgegun]

 Oh my, those character models. 

Now I have absolutely no idea what to play first. Human Mage, Dwarf Rogue or Elf Rogue. Decisions, decisions. 

[cjones91]

First character I will make is a elven mage who will enjoy seeing the racist humans grovel for her help.I'm glad race selection is back in since I've always liked playing as elves and the 'weird' races.

Modifié par cjones91, 15 août 2013 - 01:56 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Ausstig wrote...

No having faith in your vision and sticking to it is backbone, there is a difference between admiting mistakes, and what happened. They just caved into the 'mob' for lack of a better term. They just caved no back bone, no admiting mistakes, they just went, "well these people are 'loud' give them what they want" 

Are we talking about Bioware or Xbox?

[cjones91]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

No having faith in your vision and sticking to it is backbone, there is a difference between admiting mistakes, and what happened. They just caved into the 'mob' for lack of a better term. They just caved no back bone, no admiting mistakes, they just went, "well these people are 'loud' give them what they want" 

Are we talking about Bioware or Xbox?

Probaly both.In Microsoft's case they had to make changes otherwise they would have lost money.

[Naitaka]

I still like to point out that Dragon's Dogma has some great technology when it comes to allowing armor/cinematic to accommodate different height and build of the PC. Seems like something Bioware can learn from.

[Jerrybnsn]

Naitaka wrote...

I still like to point out that Dragon's Dogma has some great technology when it comes to allowing armor/cinematic to accommodate different height and build of the PC. Seems like something Bioware can learn from.

Yes.  I don't see why bioware thought that "iconic armor" was innovated when it was actually a step backwards.

[Wolf]

Ausstig wrote...

No having faith in your vision and sticking to it is backbone, there is a difference between admiting mistakes, and what happened. They just caved into the 'mob' for lack of a better term. They just caved no back bone, no admiting mistakes, they just went, "well these people are 'loud' give them what they want"

Also what do you mean by the 'market economy'? it is driven by supply and demand, also money. Are you saying poeple's demands are the market? If people were serious about their complaints then they would not buy, this would have driven change. EA is frightened by the ME3 reaction and has decided to either:

Give the Devs the time and money they need to make a good game

OR

Told the Devs to cave to the loud fans,

Maybe both.

I don't know if you're aware of this seeing as how you're only argument is "I don't like X feature so it's pointless" but their plan was always to return to multiple playable races in future instalments after Dragon Age II. Mike himself made that statement plenty of times over twitter and even said that there was a lot of attention to the feature and it's absence.

By the by, the people's demands DO make the market. Demand means someone is seeking a specific product to purchase. Supply is the manufacturing and distribution of said product, which can be of varying quality and is affected by the needs (or in the case of games, wants) of the buyer. Money is merely the currency used in the deals made for said products. Also the one responsible for it's supply. 

And what you call "caving to the loud fans" has a name. It's called economic strategy and marketing. If people request feature A and the developers add said feature, the chances that somebody is willing to overlook something they may not enjoy in a game (if there is one) is much greater which leads to more sales and more money.

You also make a lot of assumptions of what was in the game before the decision to add multiple races back was made, as well as what the goings on at Bioware are like. Mind the following:

-They were scheduled to release this year. That means the content that was planned to be in-game was already defined, to a certain extent anyway;
-The one year (along with extra resources) that were granted to them are likely being used to add more content, be that the extra player races or something else they have not shown or mentioned;
-You don't know what they planned to do with backgrounds or whatever other content was planned in its stead, therefore claiming you know what would be best because A) you don't care for multiple races, and you believe the game should be designed a certain way when it was never a question of whether you, specifically approved of the direction of the game, but what many players (a big enough portion to garner attention, obviously) felt would improve their experience for the game;
-All the content you would have experienced and still can (minus the backgrounds as a human) is likely there. Big decisions like races are usually made well before any of us even know about the game's existence. So considering it was revealed this "late" it most likely indicates that what they actually meant for us to experience initially is mostly still there and is unaffected. 


TL;DR
Stop assuming so much and don't be selfish. More people play these things, you know. 

Edit: Got ninja'd by hhh89 but leaving it here as it's still relevant.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 15 août 2013 - 03:41 .

[Hazegurl]

Dirgegun wrote...

 Oh my, those character models. 

Now I have absolutely no idea what to play first. Human Mage, Dwarf Rogue or Elf Rogue. Decisions, decisions. 

I know! That elf model is looking hot. I was gonna play a human male first but I might have to have my gay elf run first

[Rockpopple]

This is like really, really good news.

See what happens when you have a nice long development cycle as opposed to a truncated one?

Good things.

[Shadow Fox]

Rockpopple wrote...

This is like really, really good news.

See what happens when you have a nice long development cycle as opposed to a truncated one?

Good things.

On the other hand:

Duke Nukem
Half Life 3

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 15 août 2013 - 04:21 .

[Vearsin]

I wish Mike would have been more specific about the whole race/class=backround thing. To me it would really suck if the inquisitor's entire pre-game existence was explained as some random "insert race" "insert class" who happened to be around when the veil tore open.

[Wompoo]

eye basher wrote...

I don't care about race i play human only frankly i think the whole race thing is a waste of time which they could use doing something else but got to make the fan service give the fanatics what they want so they don't have a hissy fit.

You and the Krogan obviously like taking dumps in children's lunch boxes as well.

Break down of what you said:

I don't care about race >>>> i play human only (if you don't care about race why select human only)

whole race thing is a waste of time >>>> i play human only (of course you don't care you got what you wanted)

got to make the fan service give the fanatics what they want >>>> i play human only (so you were always happy " i play human only"  and content for others to be less so... I hear a lunch box opening some where)

[Jerrybnsn]

Vearsin wrote...

I wish Mike would have been more specific about the whole race/class=backround thing. To me it would really suck if the inquisitor's entire pre-game existence was explained as some random "insert race" "insert class" who happened to be around when the veil tore open.

Struck by the Promeathan Artifact.  Now chosen one.

[Shevy]

The female dwarf concept looks awesome.

If I'm going to buy this game female dwarf will be the one.

[Chagrinned Goat]

Battlebloodmage wrote...
But then, I want a shaved dwarf. They better let me have a beardless dwarf, or Varric will pay. 

Yes, beardless dwarves are wonderful. But also . . .

bearded elves. BioWare. Please. I can't stand the poncey elves. Let's whip these dandies into shape, starting with their chins. We have race selection confirmed. That one silhouette looked to be wearing mage pants. All we need is glorious beard equality and the game is perfect.

maliluka wrote...

If I have to backfill the origins in my
head do be it. It's a lot easier to do that than play as a human and try
to convince myself that I am really an elf

There's some leeway there with half elves! They're effectively human, after all. I was planning on playing one myself, but going full elf so the game can react to that character's lineage is way better.

Ausstig wrote...

No having faith in your vision and
sticking to it is backbone, there is a difference between admiting
mistakes, and what happened. They just caved into the 'mob' for lack of a
better term. They just caved no back bone, no admiting mistakes, they
just went, "well these people are 'loud' give them what they want"

Where does the assumption come from that they're "not having faith in [their] vision"? Maybe this is something they wanted to do, but wanted to give credit to fan encouragement as a rallying cry? A lot of the more recent complaints about BioWare have been that they're straying too far from their loyal fanbase, after all. Maybe it's something they thought might be decent, and fan encouragement is what cemented the decision to make use of the extra time to implement it. Or maybe they still have faith in their vision but decided that race selection doesn't detract significantly from the work they've already completed, and what they gain in fan praise/loyalty, replayability, and reaction potential more than makes up for any loss.

Out of curiosity, do you think Origins would have been a better game without race selection? Not "would you enjoy it more", but "would it be better". I'll agree that there wouldn't be a significant difference outside of role play, but little change in gameplay does not mean better. I also don't think that the game would be significantly worse, either. For me, it would be significantly less enjoyable, but it would still be a great game.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Chagrinned Goat wrote... 

bearded elves. BioWare. Please. I can't stand the poncey elves. Let's whip these dandies into shape, starting with their chins. We have race selection confirmed. That one silhouette looked to be wearing mage pants. All we need is glorious beard equality and the game is perfect.

Is it actually part of the lore that elves can't grow beards? Fenris says they don't, but Hahren Sairel seems to be starting...