18 réponses à ce sujet

[Lokiwithrope]

What's the best build for a Two-Handed Warrior who's looking to crank out as much damage as possible?

[keeneaow]

I think re-spec it into anything else is the only way to go for large damage output,
like for example a dual-wield warrior on momentum.
Actually momentum runes will help rather a lot with dmg output,
but then you need 'awakening in the OC' mod, if you play origins.
http://dragonage.nex....com/mods/920/?

[Lokiwithrope]

keeneaow wrote...

I think re-spec it into anything else is the only way to go for large damage output,
like for example a dual-wield warrior on momentum.
Actually momentum runes will help rather a lot with dmg output,
but then you need 'awakening in the OC' mod, if you play origins.
http://dragonage.nex....com/mods/920/?

I play on the Xbox. And apparently having a two handed warrior is a wrong answer.

[Blazomancer]

Each point in STR and Berserker-Reaver.

Breastplate: WC, Gauntlets:Cailan's, Greaves: Cadash Stompers, Helmet: Helm of Honnleath
Belt: Andruil's B., Amulet: High Regard of House Dace, Rings: Key to the City & Harvest Fest Ring

Weapon: Dragonbone Cleaver/Starfang till you get Chasind Great Maul

Teammates: Two Bard rogues with as much CUNN as possible, and Wynne.

Sustainables(Warden): Precise Striking, Indomitable, Powerful Swings, Berserk, Blood Thirst, Aura of Pain


Another option is using double Haste and autoattacking predominantly, but you being in the Xbox, it might or might not be desirable considering how Haste screws up the aim time for bows and staves.

[dainbramage]

If the only thing you're after is damage, then 2H aren't the right build for that. Dual wielding will get you a hell of a lot more.

That's not to say it's at all bad. Their strength is walking into any amount of crap, taking it head on, then ****ing **** up. Their DPS isn't the best, but it's the most reliable in the game. They come with indomitable, and if you take templar it's very easy to be immune to magic as well. That means an exhaustive list of stuff that disables you is web, overwhelm and grab. Then you pick what you don't like, nail it with your choice of knockdown, and use sunders and crits to finish it. Then repeat on your next target.

Building them with 100% strength is not only viable, but IMO the best build. High damage means you kill faster, which means death blow fills up your stamina faster. Dead enemies also can't attack you. That means in long fights strength is actually going to mean you've got more stamina and hp than willpower or vitality respectively. Meanwhile your base defence will never be good enough for dex to make a real difference. And you wouldn't be taking magic or cunning anyway.

Perkwise, start with pommel strike and sunder armour. Cheap disable and cheap nuke - note that both sunders hit twice, so their main use is actually for damage rather than reducing attack or armour (but they're still good for those obviously). Take indomitable as soon as you can, because that's the main reason to play a 2H over DW or SnS. Precise striking is also great all the way from level 1 to 25. You aren't really fixed on much after that, but you want death blow and two-handed sweep as soon as you can take them (levels 12 and 10 respectively).

EDIT: Berserker might look like it's the best choice for damage, but it's bad for a two-hander. Contrast a flat 8 damage on a dual-wielder attacking 1.5 times per second, or 8 damage on a two-hander who attacks once every 2.5 seconds. Each of the other 3 specs are very useful though. Templar lets you use Knight-Commander's plate for magic resistance and has an stun+AoE knockdown (but a very expensive one, and after 3 perks of dubious quality). Reaver has a nice heal and single-target lockdown. Aura is OK, blood frenzy crap though. And Champion adds rally and warcry, both of which are great. The latter combines well with sweep, letting you keep a ton of mobs off their feet for a long time (as an aside, I've done a playthrough with 4 warriors. All 2h, all champion spec. Literally endless chains of sweep + warcry).

Modifié par dainbramage, 15 août 2013 - 01:33 .

[Blazomancer]

^Bad is too strong of a word you're using here mate. The damage bonus is still there. That it doesn't provide as better of a dividend as for other weapon types is irrelevant. Champion & Templar speaks for themselves, but they're still not for someone like the OP who's "looking to crank out as much damage as possible".

[Lokiwithrope]

Well, two-handed wielders are about taking damage and dishing out more right? That's what I'm going for. I just want to play a two-handed warrior, and I wanted to know what's the best way to build those guys.

[Blazomancer]

^Yeah that's the stereotypical role assigned to them. But you see, they can be superb off-tanks with some strong AoE's like 2H sweep, holy smite, warcry, blood fury; so you can essentially use them as tanks instead of Alistair or his kind, who are less effective in the damage dealing department.

If damage dealing is on top of your priority list, as I mentioned in my first post, I believe Berserker-Reaver, full STR, two CUNN rogues for SoC stacking, Wynne for healing-buffing, and spamming talents predominantly is the way to go. You'll end up criting more than once in twice by endgame, & that's pretty juicy in my book. Believe me when I say a properly set-up Wynne can keep you from KO'd. If you are having trouble keeping your warden alive, you can always swap one rogue for Alistair or Shale, & build him/her proper like, for a dedicated tanking role.

You don't really need AoEs for your damage dealer if you don't really need them..duh. Think of it this way - don't you feel like killing your warden if s/he's busy showing off his/her deathblow animation on a critter level foe when all you want is to move on to the next target? What is best will depend on what you want - if you want crow control and complete spell resistance respectively, Champion and Templar are quintessential. So, you decide - play mix-match or min-max, your call.

[dainbramage]

Blazomancer wrote...

^Bad is too strong of a word you're using here mate. The damage bonus is still there. That it doesn't provide as better of a dividend as for other weapon types is irrelevant. Champion & Templar speaks for themselves, but they're still not for someone like the OP who's "looking to crank out as much damage as possible".

Is 8 damage going to increase your damage output more than 10 attack would? Or more than resisting a paralyze rather than being disabled for 10 seconds? And while I usually don't recommend it, 8 damage per ~2.55 seconds is less than aura of pain against a single target, let alone its aoe.

And for that matter, on PC the stamina drain is equivalent to one sunder for every ~6 attacks. If you're low on stamina then the reduced talent spam means it could actually be costing you damage. (EDIT: Since OP is on console this is moot - with constraint berserk actually increases your stamina regen slightly)

So sure I guess +8 damage is never bad, but it's certainly not nearly as good as the alternatives.

Modifié par dainbramage, 16 août 2013 - 04:55 .

[Fallstar]

2H warriors are inferior to DW warriors in both their DPS role and their offtank role. DW warriors are either auto attack dual dagger build, which has a very high dexterity, or dual full size talent spammers, who also have 36/50 dexterity in Origins/Awakening respectively. This gives them a solid defensive rating in addition to their increased DPS.

However, 2H warriors can still perform both roles excellently, so if you like playing them, don't worry about it. I believe the general build in terms of attributes is ~ 20 constitution then max strength.

Yrkoon was the go to guy for 2H builds, here's an example of one of his characters at the end of Origins:

http://social.biowar...na_id=217826496

And here's one after Awakening/DLCs:

http://social.biowar...na_id=217826496

Aim for those and you won't go far wrong.

[Blazomancer]

dainbramage wrote...
Is 8 damage going to increase your damage output more than 10 attack would?

In majority of cases, yes. Even elite bosses like the High Dragon and Archdemon has low defense making attack rating a non-existent issue. But all this doesn't really matter here since the party setup that I'm suggesting gives the warden more Attack rating than one would need - stacked SoCs and Heroic Offense.

dainbramage wrote...
Or more than resisting a paralyze
rather than being disabled for 10 seconds? And while I usually don't
recommend it, 8 damage per ~2.55 seconds is less than aura of pain
against a single target, let alone its aoe.

That's a fair point but practically it would only affect a hair-brained fool who rushes mindlessly to a mage. You know as well as I that there are other effective ways of dealing with mages; 100% spell resistance is only a luxury. I'll admit that rushing a mage and beating the hell out of it is pretty badass, but not everyone is after badassery.
One would use autoattacks only about a couple of times between cooldowns - why would autoattack speed matter for a talent spammer? Also, it's 2.295 s with Blood Thirst and 1.6575 s with Haste. Not that it matters though, the 2H talents have pretty low cooldown anyway.

dainbramage wrote...
And for that matter,
on PC the stamina drain is equivalent to one sunder for every ~6
attacks. If you're low on stamina then the reduced talent spam means it
could actually be costing you damage. (EDIT: Since OP is on console this
is moot - with constraint berserk actually increases your stamina regen
slightly)

Oh come on, you know stamina is not a concern for a warrior stealing most of the killing blows. The warden will have a positive stamina regen anyway. And then there's Wynne to keep everyone rejuvenated. Why would -1 hit to stamina regen matter.

dainbramage wrote...
So sure I guess +8 damage is never bad, but it's certainly not nearly as good as the alternatives.

It's obvious that Champion and Templar are better for the typical warrior, but for optimizing damage, I believe Berserker's better, based on what I said above; and that is what Lokiwithrope asked. The health regen bonus is also not a bad thing when the warrior's losing health due to the sustainables. And notice how I suggested a build with a considerable crit chance (in the high 50's); every bit of damage bonus pays off in the end.

[Blazomancer]

DuskWarden wrote...

2H warriors are inferior to DW warriors in both their DPS role and their offtank role. DW warriors are either auto attack dual dagger build, which has a very high dexterity, or dual full size talent spammers, who also have 36/50 dexterity in Origins/Awakening respectively. This gives them a solid defensive rating in addition to their increased DPS.

However, 2H warriors can still perform both roles excellently, so if you like playing them, don't worry about it. I believe the general build in terms of attributes is ~ 20 constitution then max strength.

Yrkoon was the go to guy for 2H builds, here's an example of one of his characters at the end of Origins:

http://social.biowar...na_id=217826496

And here's one after Awakening/DLCs:

http://social.biowar...na_id=217826496

Aim for those and you won't go far wrong.

That's excellent, but messere I'm a better go to person.

http://social.biowar...na_id=769847118

And that too, when I wasted a few points in Willpower.


#Vanity

[Phoenix_Fyre]

I'm currently doing a TH build myself

me personally, I pour everything into STR, bit of CON to not die, use the Fade bonus points, and of course wear massive armor

Currently got my HN in the Keep armor + Starfang

Use a party of PC, Alistiar, and switch between mages and use Leliana and I seem to be doing ok

[dainbramage]

What's this? Dick-measuring contest?

http://i.imgur.com/Be177Yl.jpg

(my online profile has refused to update for the past ~2 years... dunno why)

Modifié par dainbramage, 16 août 2013 - 03:11 .

[Blazomancer]

^Who's better at button mashing contest.

Soloing not applicable.

[dainbramage]

I only noticed that you repleid directly just now...

Blazomancer wrote...

dainbramage wrote...
Is 8 damage going to increase your damage output more than 10 attack would?

In majority of cases, yes. Even elite bosses like the High Dragon and Archdemon has low defense making attack rating a non-existent issue. But all this doesn't really matter here since the party setup that I'm suggesting gives the warden more Attack rating than one would need - stacked SoCs and Heroic Offense.

High dragon/flemeth/archdemon have the lowest defence of any elite boss I think. What about Ser Cauthrien? She has over 100, and sunder arms, and a supporting mage with glyph and heroic defence. Revenants have like 120 at higher levels.

If you're using CGM and your hitrate is less than ~94%, Rally would be benefit you more (varies slightly depending on your damage, about 93% at level 15 to 95% at level 25). And I can tell from experience it's nowhere near that high until like the final battle when you're going up against the level 0 grunt mobs.

dainbramage wrote...
Or more than resisting a paralyze
rather than being disabled for 10 seconds? And while I usually don't
recommend it, 8 damage per ~2.55 seconds is less than aura of pain
against a single target, let alone its aoe.

That's a fair point but practically it would only affect a hair-brained fool who rushes mindlessly to a mage. You know as well as I that there are other effective ways of dealing with mages; 100% spell resistance is only a luxury. I'll admit that rushing a mage and beating the hell out of it is pretty badass, but not everyone is after badassery.
One would use autoattacks only about a couple of times between cooldowns - why would autoattack speed matter for a talent spammer? Also, it's 2.295 s with Blood Thirst and 1.6575 s with Haste. Not that it matters though, the 2H talents have pretty low cooldown anyway.

Rushing in against a mage lets you do more DPS compared to playing defensively. Even with haste, 8 damage per 1.6575s is still less than aura of pain would add. Of the talents, sunders have a 2.65s animation time; Pommel, mighty blow and critical strike are each 2.15s; sweep is 2.7s. Only the sunders (barely) get more dps from berserk than you'd get from aura of pain. The flat damage doesn't scale with crits

dainbramage wrote...
And for that matter,
on PC the stamina drain is equivalent to one sunder for every ~6
attacks. If you're low on stamina then the reduced talent spam means it
could actually be costing you damage. (EDIT: Since OP is on console this
is moot - with constraint berserk actually increases your stamina regen
slightly)

Oh come on, you know stamina is not a concern for a warrior stealing most of the killing blows. The warden will have a positive stamina regen anyway. And then there's Wynne to keep everyone rejuvenated. Why would -1 hit to stamina regen matter.

In fights against mobs when you can regularly proc death blow it doesn't matter. But against, say, a high dragon...

And it's -3 with constraint on PC. +1 on console.

dainbramage wrote...
So sure I guess +8 damage is never bad, but it's certainly not nearly as good as the alternatives.

It's obvious that Champion and Templar are better for the typical warrior, but for optimizing damage, I believe Berserker's better, based on what I said above; and that is what Lokiwithrope asked. The health regen bonus is also not a bad thing when the warrior's losing health due to the sustainables. And notice how I suggested a build with a considerable crit chance (in the high 50's); every bit of damage bonus pays off in the end.

Oh, I definitely don't disagree with crit on a two-hander. Hell in the screenshot above you can see I still have precise striking on, and cailan's gauntlets. The solo forces some more defensive gear, but otherwise he'd probably have been wearing warden-commander's armour as well, and possibly cadash stompers. Health regen wouldn't be that important if you have a mage keeping you alive - otherwise it definitely is very nice (though again, spell immunity, devour and war cry would usually mitigate/heal more than the regen would)

As for optimizing damage, we're going to have to disagree. If you're hitting a sandbag with no defence that doesn't try to fight back, yeah berserk gives you a bigger boost than templar or champion (still not reaver though). Where you don't hit 100% of the time, or you're being debilitated, the reliability wins out.

[Blazomancer]

Revenants - 120 defense, do they now? The game is not really all Cauthriens and revenants, is it. With party support, it still doesn't seem attack rating is any issue in most cases. I don't know what defense rating the regular normal or elite creatures have, but surely it's not as high as Cauthrien's.

Rushing is not necessarily the only option. I generally use the rogue to pin or assassinate them, or crushing prison or stuff like glyph of paralysis or horror or something. I don't understand how rushing is related to dps. It's not like "enemy has been spotted, battlemusic begins, dps timer starts, go go go".

Might I ask from where you are getting the animation duration for the talents. And to be clear, I didn't compare berserk with aura of pain anyway. Reaver is my other spec and aura of pain is a permanent sustainable for me along with berserk.

I am sorry for claiming flat dmg scaled with crits and also for berserk's stamina regen penalty. The warden will have +ve stamina regen even then though, so it doesn't matter much. Also, your citation of the High dragon battle as an example doesn't hold because nothing's forcing me to use talents against it. Even auto-attacks will yield me more damage than champion or templar. And then there's rejuvenate, mass rejuvenation and spellbloom.

Berserk is also better when you are hitting a sand bag that is not cauthrien, fighting back or no; and i think most of the game is basically such sand bags, though I admit I don't know their exact defense rating - i'm not even sure where you got 120 for revenants. You don't get debilitated if your party helps you in keeping the element in check that can debilitate you. I guess you have done too much soloing to understimate the value of reliability that your teammates can bring. You also seemed to have missed my mentioning of stacked SoC's and heroic offense. Pausing the game, issuing commands & not playing in real time doesn't mean it's a hindrance to dps.

[Blazomancer]

By going for complete spell resistance, you are giving up Warden Commander chestpiece, high regard of house dace, & three rune slots, which might as well provide something of value to the Berserker-Reaver. So, it's not as simple as you'd want to believe.

[dainbramage]

Talent times are from here (further along in the thread, not in the OP): http://social.biowar...6/index/2761368

Revenants are I think the unit with the highest defensive stats in the base game. They also have around 40-50 armour (again at high levels). These numbers based on testing them myself (one of the black phials ones IIRC).

Party help definitely, well, helps. But to me opens a ton of variability. A heroic offense could have been a fireball or cone spell or something. Song of courage is always great (then again, so is rally... especially if we have two cun rogues), though Zevran I'm sure would much prefer to be a duelist (or leliana is pissed that her own SoC is overridden by a weaker one). Ultimately I just find that 3 characters supporting one selfish one (obviously the entirety of them isn't devoted to supporting, but still) is a weaker arrangement than 4 that either stand alone or are all party-friendly.

Magic immunity obviously costs you more than one specialization. It's still worth it IMO. Weapon runes aren't that strong for the same reason I think berserk isn't (as an aside, dwarves only need 2 weapon slots). High Regard is nice but other characters can make much better use of it (especially in a party with two bards). Warden-Commander's chestplate is the bigger bummer. However on my solos (never really bothered in bigger parties) KCP was switched out if I was facing tough non-magic-using enemies.

Modifié par dainbramage, 18 août 2013 - 10:09 .