40 réponses à ce sujet

[ArmaVirumqueCano]

Is this the most unbalanced fight in the game?  I'm immediately bumrushed by 6-8 guys while archers fire paralyzing shots.  The fight literally doesn't last one minute.  I have 2 mages, Alistair and the Chantry girl, and even though A is wearing warden armor from the DLC and has a good weapon, he gets sliced down almost at once.  I've made it past Redcliffe, the Mage's Circle, and lots of other quests and am around level 12, so what am I missing here?

This is literally THE most frustrating experiences I've ever had with a game.  In order to trigger the fight you have to advance to a point where the archers can just nail you while the half dozen simply surround you and hammer away.  Any help would be welcome, esp. ones that suggest tactics sets.   

[KingEtzel]

Kite those thugs and staying out of the archers' range (once the fight is triggered?) Perhaps a Forcefield to save your scout? Boosting up everything you have in terms of enhancement spells? There's plenty of possibility even in the hardest fight.



If nothing helps, you can pull down the difficulty at last.

[Ethical Scabs]

Paralysis explosion on the archers. Have al chug potions until things get manageable.

[knownastherat]

You can also back up. The trigger is there for a reason, to put the player in disadvantage, retreating is not weak, but wise. In every alley it is possible to either gain tactical advantage or at least avoid the worst parts of the gang-bangs. Look around a bit and see if its possible to use terrain to your advantage.

[Addai]

I don't remember this one in particular, but a general rule for me with the Denerim alleys is to run back to the entrance area to limit the archers' ability to fire at you; have your mage hit the archers with something nasty; and just keep plugging away. No fight should end that quickly if you have your crew set to chug a health poultice at <50%, healer set to heal ally and self at <50%, and if you can manage some area-of-effect. Morrigan's Sleep spell is always nice, because unlike an elemental spell it won't cause all of the archers who survive to aggro the mage. Just make sure she doesn't follow it up by attacking one of the archers she had just put to sleep.

Modifié par Addai67, 18 janvier 2010 - 09:55 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

If you have to move forward to trigger the fight, try precasting some glyphs or large AoE DoTs (like Inferno or Blizzard) over the area before the fight starts. Then the archers will start taking damage immediately at the start of the fight.

[ArmaVirumqueCano]

Wow, thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, It seems I've entered this battle later in the game when the cpu has scattershot, and that makes a big difference (from what I've read online). As for talents/spells, I don't have forcefield and have very few bombs. Also, I do retreat to the entrance, but that makes no difference; the archers still have angles from up top. I've seen some videos of people getting through it, and it seems like console is MUCH easier than cpu -- the enemies seem less aggressive and less powerful. Maybe my setup is wrong (myself, a damager/healer; Wynn, a healer; Alistair, a tank; and the chantry girl, a rogue), but thugs in an alley? vs. a grey warden and friends? And there's no way to back out of the quest, either...argh...



Thanks again for the quick (and I mean QUICK) replies. This is a great forum, even if I feel like burning the game right now...

[ArmaVirumqueCano]

Also, don't have any glyphs and no area of effect spells. That will do it, right?



Ah well, back to a previous save file I suppose.



But I will say that for a game that just oozes production value and customer respect, this area feels REALLY cheap.

[beelzeybob]

I'm more bothered that the "Dark" Alley is so light coloured.

[Valmy]

You have two mages and no sleep spells? You need to knock out those archers.

[Ethical Scabs]

ArmaVirumqueCano wrote...

Also, don't have any glyphs and no area of effect spells. That will do it, right?

Ah well, back to a previous save file I suppose.

But I will say that for a game that just oozes production value and customer respect, this area feels REALLY cheap.

Does Leliana have Stealth IV?  You could do it all with her and some grenades.

Try changing your party up a bit.  throw shale in to tank as well, and pull your mages back so that they are out of the way of the stun.

[heretica]

13eelzebub wrote...

I'm more bothered that the "Dark" Alley is so light coloured.

Hahaha man. <3

[Sylvius the Mad]

What spells do you have?

[Coldcall01]

ArmaVirumqueCano wrote...

Is this the most unbalanced fight in the game?  I'm immediately bumrushed by 6-8 guys while archers fire paralyzing shots.  The fight literally doesn't last one minute.  I have 2 mages, Alistair and the Chantry girl, and even though A is wearing warden armor from the DLC and has a good weapon, he gets sliced down almost at once.  I've made it past Redcliffe, the Mage's Circle, and lots of other quests and am around level 12, so what am I missing here?

This is literally THE most frustrating experiences I've ever had with a game.  In order to trigger the fight you have to advance to a point where the archers can just nail you while the half dozen simply surround you and hammer away.  Any help would be welcome, esp. ones that suggest tactics sets.   

Tuck your group around a corner which forces the melee enemies to come after you, while giving you some cover  from the archer's line of sight. Then once you've killed the melee group, heal up fully and rush the archers one by one so they die very quickly.

But I think your problem may be your party. You've really only got one tank, that being Alistair. I prefer having 2 tanks to take the flak away from the mage or rogue in the group. Leli is good but more as a mobile backstabber who acts as support for the two tanks holding the line - if you will. Then the mage heals and does cc or aoe spells.

I think 2 mages in a party of 4 (unless perhaps one is a strong arcane warrior) means you lose overall balance.

[Coldcall01]

This reminds me of the fight in Denerim where the gate comes down behind you and leaves some or all the group cut off. Though that is a very easy fight considering the circumstances.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Having one tank isn't usually a problem with multiple mages. I don't think I ever had two tanks in a big fight in DAO (outside a failed Deep Roads experiment with Oghren and Shale).

But it sounds like these mages don't have any crowd control spells. No Sleep, Glyphs, Paralysis, Forcefield, or even Fireball.

[Creature 1]

ArmaVirumqueCano wrote...

Also, don't have any glyphs and no area of effect spells. That will do it, right?

You need crowd control.  I checked your mage, the upload is level 7 but it looks like you were mostly going primal, so I assume you continued on that route.  That puts you at a disadvantage in many respects.  My first mage was primarily primal but now I'm not taking more than two primal damage lines (either 3/4 or full electric and full cold, usually).  If you don't have blizzard or fireball and don't have any mass crowd control spells (paralyis explosion, mass paralysis, sleep, waking nightmare) you're going to have difficulties in this section of the game and others. 

But I will say that for a game that just oozes production value and customer respect, this area feels REALLY cheap.

It's difficult but not impossible if your team is designed correctly. 

[Creature 1]

Coldcall01 wrote...
But I think your problem may be your party. You've really only got one tank, that being Alistair. I prefer having 2 tanks to take the flak away from the mage or rogue in the group.

I run one tank routinely. 

I think 2 mages in a party of 4 (unless perhaps one is a strong arcane warrior) means you lose overall balance.

Only in the sense that you can make the game too easy! 

I usually use one tank, always at least one mage, and frequently two mages.  I ran my first archmage battle Alistiar plus a PC primal damage mage, Wynn specced for healing and defense, and Morrigan specced for spirit damage and debuffing.  

Even when I have only one mage present, I often have two dps rogues (PC dps rogue usually ran with Zevran, Alistair, and Wynn).  A second warrior is not necessary, and can slow things down. 

[Addai]

Yes, the archers do pursue you, so angling for position is not a fix-all. As you may have gleaned from the replies, AoE spells are pretty much mandatory in this game. Having fewer chains but at least one or two filled out is more effective than having lots of little spells you can lob at single targets.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Creature 1 wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...
But I think your problem may be your party. You've really only got one tank, that being Alistair. I prefer having 2 tanks to take the flak away from the mage or rogue in the group.

I run one tank routinely. 

I think 2 mages in a party of 4 (unless perhaps one is a strong arcane warrior) means you lose overall balance.

Only in the sense that you can make the game too easy! 

I usually use one tank, always at least one mage, and frequently two mages.  I ran my first archmage battle Alistiar plus a PC primal damage mage, Wynn specced for healing and defense, and Morrigan specced for spirit damage and debuffing.  

Even when I have only one mage present, I often have two dps rogues (PC dps rogue usually ran with Zevran, Alistair, and Wynn).  A second warrior is not necessary, and can slow things down. 

I spend as much time as possible with three Mages and a Rogue.  I only bring a tank if I need one for plot reasons.

[Ecael]

I spend as much time as possible with three Mages and a Rogue.  I only bring a tank if I need one for plot reasons.

I agree. More Mages = Easier Game

I routinetly run with 3 Mages and 1 Rogue (Bard/Ranger), with Morrigan specialized for Arcane Warrior with Blizzard/Tempest. My PC Mage has most AoEs along with Spell Might, allowing for 2 Storms of the Century.

When it's a fight that's triggered by walking in, I cast in this order on top of the waiting enemies before triggering them:

0. Hold Position
1. Blizzard with Morrigan
2. Tempest (Spell Mighted) with PC Mage (Storm of the Century 1)
3. Tempest with Morrigan
4. Blizzard (Spell Mighted) with PC Mage (Storm of the Century 2)
5. Inferno with PC Mage
6. Death Cloud with PC Mage
7. Earthquake with Wynne
8. ***Send Leliana's bear into the crowd of enemies to die, enemies activate
9. Glyph of Repulsion with Wynne, Affliction Hex with PC Mage
10. Glyph of Paralysis with Wynne (Paralysis Explosion), Blood Magic/Blood Wound with PC Mage
11. Activate Miasma with Morrigan
12. Death Hex with PC Mage (Entropic Death)

Usually 9 through 11 is unnecessary, because most enemies are already dead 4 seconds after being activated. If the elite/boss enemy survives both Storms of the Century, Inferno, and Entropic Death while under Paralysis Explosion, Earthquake and Blood Wound, Morrigan activates all her sustainables and tanks with 100/100 mental/physical resistance and +75% elemental resistance.

All 3 Mages have Heal (Wynne with Group Heal) in the event that someone actually takes damage.

Modifié par Ecael, 19 janvier 2010 - 12:31 .

[Sidney]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Having one tank isn't usually a problem with multiple mages. I don't think I ever had two tanks in a big fight in DAO (outside a failed Deep Roads experiment with Oghren and Shale).
But it sounds like these mages don't have any crowd control spells. No Sleep, Glyphs, Paralysis, Forcefield, or even Fireball.

That'd be an issue, I'm not sure you can avoid those spells and be at a high enough leevl to face Scattershot.

I will agree with the OP that any fight with mutiple archers with scattershot is harder than almost any fight in the game.

[Ingahootz]

Fights with multiple mages are 10x more annoying than fights with multiple archers using scatter shot.



Just run in there with a Dex built Alistair and have him scream "I AM AMAZING!" over and over again. You'll slaughter everything, trust me.

[Walkure710]

It's all well and good to tell him to use spells and grenades he doesn't have, but maybe some help with getting by this with the group he's using.



First of all, if you don't have any big crowd control utility you should get some asap. Let this be a lesson to you if you don't before you get in too deep.



If you have Paralysis or Crushing Prison or Force Field, use all of them immediately to temporarily take out any archers in immediate range of your casters. If not, use them to hold up the Gang Leader and any other targets you can. Then have your casters join Alistair and Leliana in the corner. This is a good way to start shredding down some of the melee while cutting los from the back archers in addition to holding up a few single targets from the initial rush. This tactic will always help you get through the first important 10 seconds and set you up for success.



Once you're all in the corner make sure Alistair and Leliana are focus firing the same target. Pause the game as soon as one goes down and pick the next bloke. 2 mages helps a lot here with Mind Blast and Cone of Cold.



As soon as you see archers come around the corner Alistair should have things handled and you can used Leliana and the 2 mages to burn down the archers from range. If it's still a mess, you can have Alistair taunt and Force Field him. He'll hold aggro and take no damage while the other 3 pick off the ranged dps and a few more melee.



It's all about the first few moments. Don't be afraid to pause and micromanage everybody. Two mages alternating Cone of Cold is pretty stupid for the rest of the game. That tactic alone can make even some of the harder boss fights cheesefests. Make sure you use Whynn offensively at the start, otherwise she's just waiting to heal. Train her with some good crowd controls so she has something to do at the start of every fight.

[Sidney]

Ingahootz wrote...

Fights with multiple mages are 10x more annoying than fights with multiple archers using scatter shot.

You'd be right but I never face the volume of mages I do archers and the mages don't use their spells to the best effect IMHO while the archers actually do us etheir powers.