162 réponses à ce sujet

[Iron Fist]

Nevermind

Modifié par MevenSelas, 15 août 2013 - 06:30 .

[Tarek]

some one like Steve

I would never stop playing

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think having the option for a black/asian PC would be great. If people identify with their character then it is a logical step to include these markets. From a commercial perspective it makes sense too. It's in line with the inclusiveness of a female PC and same-sex LIs already seen in BW's games. Add it to the lore and everyone is happy.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 août 2013 - 04:34 .

[ladyiolanthe]

I always thought that Liselle, the Orlesian perfume seller in the Denerim Market, looked slightly Asian - like she could have had an Asian parent and a Caucasian parent. I also remember a lot of dark-skinned NPCs throughout DAO, although I agree that the darker skin tones did not really mimic the beautiful tones we see in reality, and that their facial features still looked more Caucasian than anything.

My point is that I seriously don't think that having characters with Asian or African or Native American or any non-Caucasian facial features for that matter would destroy my immersion in DAI. I have trouble understanding how it would destroy anyone else's, either. The seeds are already in place from DAO; BioWare just needs to get some non-Caucasian features into the character creation system to implement it. And this would be totally, totally okay with me. I really hope it happens. It does not require a stretch. Orlais is a big place, a center of culture even (if you believe the Orlesians, anyway). Before it existed, there was the Tevinter Imperium which covered a very large part of Thedas. It's naïve to think that there would have been no migration of peoples who evolved in different geographic regions over the course of the thousands of years of history that we already know have taken place in the world of Thedas or that migration isn't still taking place - that everyone in Thedas should look Caucasian unless BioWare explains where these 'new' facial features came from.

Tevinter soldiers could have intermarried with people from anywhere the Imperium extended, especially if those people had magical talents, because for the Tevinters, it's really your magical ability that determines what socio-economic class you'll belong to. The descendants of those unions would be present in the rest of Thedas today. Merchants could have intermarried with anyone along the trade routes they used. The descendants of those unions would be present in the rest of Thedas today. Merchants in the PRESENT are migrating for better business opportunities (think of the Antivans and Liselle again, in Denerim - also, surface dwarves). It would be completely normal and natural for there to be a mix of facial features and skin tones in present-day Thedas, no explanation needed.

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 15 août 2013 - 04:46 .

[Fast Jimmy]

It's naïve to think that there would have been no migration of peoples who evolved in different geographic regions over the course of the thousands of years of history that we already know have taken place in the world of Thedas - that everyone in Thedas should look Caucasian unless BioWare explains where these 'new' facial features came from.

You completely contradict yourself there.

If its naive to think that there aren't people in Thedas who are from different geographical areas that could result in different appearances, why is it then wrong to ask that those areas be, at the least, named?

Otherwise, you are essentially saying people of varying racial appearances/backgrounds popped up out of the ground.

[mikeymoonshine]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It's naïve to think that there would have been no migration of peoples who evolved in different geographic regions over the course of the thousands of years of history that we already know have taken place in the world of Thedas - that everyone in Thedas should look Caucasian unless BioWare explains where these 'new' facial features came from.

You completely contradict yourself there.

If its naive to think that there aren't people in Thedas who are from different geographical areas that could result in different appearances, why is it then wrong to ask that those areas be, at the least, named?

Otherwise, you are essentially saying people of varying racial appearances/backgrounds popped up out of the ground.

While I kinda agree with that, That they should make it clearer at least a little bit I do think maybe the fact that there are actual other races like elves, dwarves, kossith ect maybe people in thedas are pretty indifferent to the racial trates of other humans. 

maybe there are no social problems that come with that (tell me if there is some lore that contradicts that) I don't mean like racism or anything just any kind of social seperation. So maybe it's not something they really care about or would talk about and make clear. 

[WardenMarcus]

Side tracked: ummm... aren't middle eastern, asians?

On topic: sure why not but let's just focus on the people of thedas' continent before we go elsewhere in another Age.

[Potato Cat]

Catroi wrote...

makes no sence logically since the climate is European

Fun fact! Black people in Europe can be traced back to the Roman Empire as they conquered the continents with a mixed race army. Henry VIII even had a balck man in his court,

[ladyiolanthe]

mikeymoonshine wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It's naïve to think that there would have been no migration of peoples who evolved in different geographic regions over the course of the thousands of years of history that we already know have taken place in the world of Thedas - that everyone in Thedas should look Caucasian unless BioWare explains where these 'new' facial features came from.

You completely contradict yourself there.

If its naive to think that there aren't people in Thedas who are from different geographical areas that could result in different appearances, why is it then wrong to ask that those areas be, at the least, named?

Otherwise, you are essentially saying people of varying racial appearances/backgrounds popped up out of the ground.

While I kinda agree with that, That they should make it clearer at least a little bit I do think maybe the fact that there are actual other races like elves, dwarves, kossith ect maybe people in thedas are pretty indifferent to the racial trates of other humans. 

maybe there are no social problems that come with that (tell me if there is some lore that contradicts that) I don't mean like racism or anything just any kind of social seperation. So maybe it's not something they really care about or would talk about and make clear. 

Yeah, I can sort of see the point you're making, but I disagree that I'm contradicting myself, Fast Jimmy. As mikeymoonshine wrote, I just don't think 'racial differences' have the same significance to the people of Thedas as they unfortunately have in the real world.  My pale-skinned Warden ran around in all sorts of situations with darker-skinned NPCs present, and there was never a dialogue option for "Say, you look different. Where are you from?" So, I honestly think it's not that big of a deal, which is as it should be.

I disagree that there have to be identified places from which different ethnic groups originated.  We know that the history of Thedas spans thousands of years. We know that the Tevinter Imperium covered a lot of the known world (at least on one continent) at one time. In the real world, we know that places can be subsumed into gigantic empires and their original names may be lost to the mists of time because of that. So it is not a stretch for me to think that if there were ever names for the places that different people came from in the Dragon Age universe, they might not exist any longer. I'm not saying they 'popped up out of the ground' - I'm saying that wherever any of the human phenotypes in Dragon Age may have come from originally, they have lived in the same spaces for so long that it really doesn't matter - no one (except some of the players, I guess) questions it.

For all we know, the pale-skinned people in Ferelden were not the people that were there originally, although they now appear to be in the majority... kind of like parts of North America, maybe? And that's fine for me, too.

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 15 août 2013 - 05:17 .

[Catroi]

Elfman wrote...

Catroi wrote...

makes no sence logically since the climate is European

Fun fact! Black people in Europe can be traced back to the Roman Empire as they conquered the continents with a mixed race army. Henry VIII even had a balck man in his court,

maybe linked to the fact that Rome conquered north Africa?
there also were roman ambassadors in the Han court in the late second century

In Thedas we have no reason to believe that an africa-like continent lies just a few kilometers away from the setting making trade and all possible.

[Das Tentakel]

WardenMarcus wrote...

Side tracked: ummm... aren't middle eastern, asians?

Geographically speaking. Culturally / genetically they're part of a regional western Eurasian continuum including Europe. In fact, recent research increasingly points to Europeans being to a large degree descended from relatively recent (Neolithic) immigrants from southwestern Asia.
So, in a sense, you could say Thedas is already full of Asians .
I don't think that's what the OP meant, though.

[Qyla]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If its naive to think that there aren't people in Thedas who are from different geographical areas that could result in different appearances, why is it then wrong to ask that those areas be, at the least, named?

Otherwise, you are essentially saying people of varying racial appearances/backgrounds popped up out of the ground.

Jimmy this idea pops out of nowhere. So you're telling me that if you find an Asian looking npc unless he/she says "I'm an immgrate" it would totally ruin your experience? I agree that since traveling in Thedas is not easy finding a many non Caucasican npc would not be fitting, but we don't need explaination for every non-caucasican npc exisisting

[ladyiolanthe]

Elfman wrote...

Catroi wrote...

makes no sence logically since the climate is European

Fun fact! Black people in Europe can be traced back to the Roman Empire as they conquered the continents with a mixed race army. Henry VIII even had a balck man in his court,

Exactly. More recently, let's not forget the Moors, who ruled most of what we now call Spain, Sicily and Malta as well as much of northern Africa.

[Catroi]

ladyiolanthe wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Catroi wrote...

makes no sence logically since the climate is European

Fun fact! Black people in Europe can be traced back to the Roman Empire as they conquered the continents with a mixed race army. Henry VIII even had a balck man in his court,

Exactly. More recently, let's not forget the Moors, who ruled most of what we now call Spain, Sicily and Malta as well as much of northern Africa.

The Moors (early middle-age name for arabs) are an Altaïro subgroup unrelated to Africans

edit: anyways i'm not against having black/asian people I just want to know where they'd come from

Modifié par Catroi, 15 août 2013 - 05:28 .

[drake heath]

The fault in this is that BioWare never covered their bases when it came to world building.
When I make a fantasy world I try and get all my bases covered, to maximize the cultural diversity of the world and to make it feel larger, giving me more cultures to work with to enhance the story.

The problem with BioWare's building of Thedas was not "it's Europe" but making Thedas the only continent, and not expanding the world enough. Even in the Middle Ages people got around, an Italian living in Florence knew of more places then Europe, even far lands like Cathay, or Hindustan. The Steppe peoples got as far as Eastern Europe, and Huns were commonly used as mercenaries even in Italy, (Huns were probably a mix of Caucasian and Asian not really one or the other).

In Thedas even the most worldly of people seem to only really know Thedas, there are not other (known) continents or far off lands, which is the problem, and it leaves you with having this problem.

My recommendation? Make another continent, or have a far off land beyond the Donnarks, or Volca Sea, etc. what have you, where these people are from, have them have large enclaves in the Anderfells, or in Western Orlais.It's easy to retcon, or add in, whose to say Fereldens just aren't that knowledgeable about other lands, like the average Englishman in the 12th century might have been?

There's no sense in fighting about this, it's easy to add in and more options are always good.
And if BioWare doesn't want to do this? Well, then just add it in the CC, it's a CC, who really cares if your character makes sense?

Modifié par drake heath, 15 août 2013 - 05:29 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Qyla wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If its naive to think that there aren't people in Thedas who are from different geographical areas that could result in different appearances, why is it then wrong to ask that those areas be, at the least, named?

Otherwise, you are essentially saying people of varying racial appearances/backgrounds popped up out of the ground.

Jimmy this idea pops out of nowhere. So you're telling me that if you find an Asian looking npc unless he/she says "I'm an immgrate" it would totally ruin your experience? I agree that since traveling in Thedas is not easy finding a many non Caucasican npc would not be fitting, but we don't need explaination for every non-caucasican npc exisisting

First off, I'm not saying it would ruin my expereince. I'm saying it would weaken the narrative.

Second, I'm not saying they even have to be an immigrant neccessarily... but some attempt must be made to explain what is going on.

Third, this exact topic came up before and Gaider weighed in, supporting exactly what I'm saying. So for all of those people saying this is ridiculous or implying that I'm being racist, then you are saying essentially that Bioware is also being ridiculous and racist. Which is a fair enough opinion to have, but please do not just slough it off as the BSN being a bunch of ignorant Klan members, when in reality, I'm actually working to maintain the narrative integrity of the story.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 août 2013 - 05:32 .

[ladyiolanthe]

Catroi wrote...

ladyiolanthe wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Catroi wrote...

makes no sence logically since the climate is European

Fun fact! Black people in Europe can be traced back to the Roman Empire as they conquered the continents with a mixed race army. Henry VIII even had a balck man in his court,

Exactly. More recently, let's not forget the Moors, who ruled most of what we now call Spain, Sicily and Malta as well as much of northern Africa.

The Moors (early middle-age name for arabs) are an Altaïro subgroup unrelated to Africans

It's actually not a very good ethnographic term. I was going with it's catch-all use meaning Berbers, North African Arabs, Muslim Iberians, Malinese and Niger peoples who were absorbed into the Almoravid dynasty, and was trying to use it as another concrete example of how not everyone in medieval Europe was Caucasian (in order to support the argument that even if we hypothetically accept the assumption that Ferelden and Orlais are based entirely on Medieval Europe, there is nothing to preclude non-Caucasian people from being there).  Sorry for the confusion.

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 15 août 2013 - 05:39 .

[ladyiolanthe]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Third, this exact topic came up before and Gaider weighed in, supporting exactly what I'm saying. So for all of those people saying this is ridiculous or implying that I'm being racist, then you are saying essentially that Bioware is also being ridiculous and racist. Which is a fair enough opinion to have, but please do not just slough it off as the BSN being a bunch of ignorant Klan members, when in reality, I'm actually working to maintain the narrative integrity of the story.

Thanks for posting the link to what David wrote!  He's actually supporting what you and I are both saying, to varying degrees.  If East Asian-like peoples exist somewhere, I guess it is on another continent which we haven't heard of in-game, which makes sense to me.  It doesn't mean that there can't be any East Asian-looking people on the continent we're on, though.  There just wouldn't be very many at all due to the lack of trade/travel that David mentions. This also explains why, out of all the pixelated people I have seen in DAO and DA2 so far, only one made me think she looked vaguely East Asian.  

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 15 août 2013 - 06:02 .

[Aolbain]

Catroi wrote...

makes no sence logically since the climate is European

No, not really. Qunari-Land (can't recall the names at the moment) is obviusly tropical.

[L. Han]

Having other "races" in Mass Effect would work just fine, but I am fairly certain that BioWare wishes to keep Dragon Age's identity. So adding in various "races" without good lore or justification to back it up may be pretty bad.

Not picking sides, just a small conjecture by me.

[syllogi]

Aolbain wrote...

Catroi wrote...

makes no sence logically since the climate is European

No, not really. Qunari-Land (can't recall the names at the moment) is obviusly tropical.

I've always thought that the northern part of the map we've seen is actually near the equator of Thedas's world, and there may be a lot more of this continent, not to mention other land masses, that we haven't seen yet.

Also, even if Thedas was a strict Fantasy Medieval Europe clone, which it isn't, we still have the fact that Real Europe never has existed in a magical bubble that didn't allow travel by sea or land by those who are not white.

[mikeymoonshine]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It's naïve to think that there would have been no migration of peoples who evolved in different geographic regions over the course of the thousands of years of history that we already know have taken place in the world of Thedas - that everyone in Thedas should look Caucasian unless BioWare explains where these 'new' facial features came from.

You completely contradict yourself there.

If its naive to think that there aren't people in Thedas who are from different geographical areas that could result in different appearances, why is it then wrong to ask that those areas be, at the least, named?

Otherwise, you are essentially saying people of varying racial appearances/backgrounds popped up out of the ground.

While I kinda agree with that, That they should make it clearer at least a little bit I do think maybe the fact that there are actual other races like elves, dwarves, kossith ect maybe people in thedas are pretty indifferent to the racial trates of other humans. 

maybe there are no social problems that come with that (tell me if there is some lore that contradicts that) I don't mean like racism or anything just any kind of social seperation. So maybe it's not something they really care about or would talk about and make clear. 

Looking different in and of itself probably wouldn't mean much, but if there is a rough correlation between ethnicity/nationality in some places in Thedas, it would matter because nationality is totally used as a point of social seperation between humans.  Just look at the way Fereldens and Orlesians interact.  Heck, the principal antagonist of DAO justifies his crimes on the basis of "Those damned Orlesians!" 

Yeah but as some people have said before there is a massive history of people moving about and marrying from other parts of thedas. Ferelden was pretty mixed even if most of the characters looked white caucasion there was some veriety. 

thedas could just be quite a multicultural place when it comes to ethnicity I dunno really. 

[Caellis]

That would be really nice indeed !

[JWvonGoethe]

I hope so and I hope the lighting in the cinematics works for darker skinned characters. I play ME as a black person and in some cutscenes I'm afraid you can only see her eyes and teeth. That's on a fairly high brightness setting. It doesn't look good and it makes you think they only tested it with a white character in mind.