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No More Disappearing Heroes


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#76
Versus Omnibus

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LinksOcarina wrote...

Since you didn't even answer my question by stating what constitutes closure...let me rephrase it and ask again.

What, to you, is closure for your character? Specifically. Is it what you are told about the character? Epilogue screens? Known actions? Continued actions? Implied actions? Is it just the fact that they are alive over dead unless you choose that fate? 


To me closure is indictations of continued actions if the character is still alive. For example: The Warden could still be running the Wardens or traveled with Morrigan through the Elusivan. For Hawke, he/she has gone into hiding with his/her love interest (if romanced) or decided to help the Templars or Mages in the war. As many have said already: if those two characters are done, why make them disappear and make it seem like they plan on coming back?

#77
LucianaIV

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Versus Omnibus wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Since you didn't even answer my question by stating what constitutes closure...let me rephrase it and ask again.

What, to you, is closure for your character? Specifically. Is it what you are told about the character? Epilogue screens? Known actions? Continued actions? Implied actions? Is it just the fact that they are alive over dead unless you choose that fate? 


To me closure is indictations of continued actions if the character is still alive. For example: The Warden could still be running the Wardens or traveled with Morrigan through the Elusivan. For Hawke, he/she has gone into hiding with his/her love interest (if romanced) or decided to help the Templars or Mages in the war. As many have said already: if those two characters are done, why make them disappear and make it seem like they plan on coming back?


Personally, I like to believe that indeed, their stories are done, but that they still have a role to play in the world of Dragon Age, likely in The Inquisitor's story about this huge crisis spanning Thedas.

Also, am I the only one with the headcanon that my Warden went of to find their clan again? I know this headcanon kind of conflicts with DA2, but still.

Modifié par LucianaIV, 16 août 2013 - 06:21 .


#78
Versus Omnibus

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LucianaIV wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Since you didn't even answer my question by stating what constitutes closure...let me rephrase it and ask again.

What, to you, is closure for your character? Specifically. Is it what you are told about the character? Epilogue screens? Known actions? Continued actions? Implied actions? Is it just the fact that they are alive over dead unless you choose that fate? 


To me closure is indictations of continued actions if the character is still alive. For example: The Warden could still be running the Wardens or traveled with Morrigan through the Elusivan. For Hawke, he/she has gone into hiding with his/her love interest (if romanced) or decided to help the Templars or Mages in the war. As many have said already: if those two characters are done, why make them disappear and make it seem like they plan on coming back?


Personally, I like to believe that indeed, their stories are done, but that they still have a role to play in the world of Dragon Age, likely in The Inquisitor's story about this huge crisis spanning Thedas.

Also, am I the only one with the headcanon that my Warden went of to find their clan again? I know this headcanon kind of conflicts with DA2, but still.


I headcanon that my Mage Warden met up with my Mage Hawke to help Alistair with the events in the comics (and blush over how everybody "knows" Isabella. ;))

Based on the trailer, I'd say everybody has a least a small role in DAI. I simply don't want the Inquistor to vanish unless we know exactly what he or she is doing and for what reason.

#79
Zeta42

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I don't mind if the Inquisitor disappears, too... On one condition: in the next game, Bioware explain what happened to him, Hawke and the Warden, at last. They could even bring them back as powerful enemies to slay, in the shape of Revenants or other strong creatures.

#80
Mykel54

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For me closure means explaining what the PC is going to do after the game, DAO did this very well with the different dialogue choices at the ending and the epilogue. It doesn´t take a lot of resources, bioware simply needs to add some dialogue for the PC to express his/her postgame intentions, and then add some text that reflects that. The PC would keep doing that until something happened that would end his/her story, like dieing in a battle (again, shown in the background, not in the game).

These are characters on the background, that the game no longer needs to keep track of to appear in the game, so bioware can add several text outcomes. I don´t understand the expectation that the past PCs must appear in next games because they are important, i don´t think they should, i would rather they remain in the background (the codex) as doing things offscreen.

The difference is that the player would have a bigger agency in what the past PCs was left doing, they wouldn´t just disappear out of the blue, introducing new questions in the game about it. They would remain as background characters that would eventually be killed off once bioware wnats to revisit that area.

So for example, if you have King Cousland, then he should reign Ferelden for several years, until the point bioware decides to do something with the political situation in Ferelden, and then King Cousland goes down (he dies), and the next game features a post King Cousland Ferelden, where the past PC could be referenced as past history, but it is not something relevant to the actual game.

I would rather have something like this, that hear at the end of DA2 that King Cousland suddenly "mysteriously disappeared", and left Ferelden to do something else. That intrudes into how the player defined the PC, what his priorities where, like "My Cousland would never leave his kingdom", and is just unnecessary: the PC already had his moment of glory on screen, there is no need to involve past PCs in mysterious new plots where they have stellar roles. Their time has passed, it is time for other protagonists to shine and let the past PCs fade in the background, until finally disappearing and becoming past history.

#81
Jessabeth

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crimzontearz wrote...

Jessabeth wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Jessabeth wrote...

I wouldn't mind my Inquisitor settling down with her love interest after saving the world. I mean, a nice, happy ending is in the cards eventually, right? xD

we said the same about ME3....

T.T
Don't remind me of my lack of a happy ending with my LI. 
My Shepard is buried under rubble, likely to suffocate before someone finds her. xD

so.....why trust Bioware again? simple answer? no reason....hence my new purchase policy



Because I still enjoy their games overall?
Just because I might wish for a happy, fluffy ending doesn't mean that I'll throw my hands up and jump off the nearest cliff when I don't get it. xD

#82
crimzontearz

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Jessabeth wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Jessabeth wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Jessabeth wrote...

I wouldn't mind my Inquisitor settling down with her love interest after saving the world. I mean, a nice, happy ending is in the cards eventually, right? xD

we said the same about ME3....

T.T
Don't remind me of my lack of a happy ending with my LI. 
My Shepard is buried under rubble, likely to suffocate before someone finds her. xD

so.....why trust Bioware again? simple answer? no reason....hence my new purchase policy



Because I still enjoy their games overall?
Just because I might wish for a happy, fluffy ending doesn't mean that I'll throw my hands up and jump off the nearest cliff when I don't get it. xD

uh...no, my new policy is no purchase until I have all the details......if I had such details now I would likely preorder

#83
TheInquisitor

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As much as I love Bioware, they aren't great at concluding stories. I'm left not knowing what has happened to my Warden, Hawke and Shepard.

This whole 'leaving it to your head cannon' is a pile of nonsense. Come on guys, learn how to conclude our characters story!

I mean, my Warden was in the eluvian with Morrigan. But now Morrigan isn't there anymore... So where is The Warden, and why did Morrigan abandon him?

Modifié par TristanHawke, 16 août 2013 - 07:47 .


#84
LucianaIV

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Mykel54 wrote...

For me closure means explaining what the PC is going to do after the game, DAO did this very well with the different dialogue choices at the ending and the epilogue. It doesn´t take a lot of resources, bioware simply needs to add some dialogue for the PC to express his/her postgame intentions, and then add some text that reflects that. The PC would keep doing that until something happened that would end his/her story, like dieing in a battle (again, shown in the background, not in the game).

These are characters on the background, that the game no longer needs to keep track of to appear in the game, so bioware can add several text outcomes. I don´t understand the expectation that the past PCs must appear in next games because they are important, i don´t think they should, i would rather they remain in the background (the codex) as doing things offscreen.

The difference is that the player would have a bigger agency in what the past PCs was left doing, they wouldn´t just disappear out of the blue, introducing new questions in the game about it. They would remain as background characters that would eventually be killed off once bioware wnats to revisit that area.

So for example, if you have King Cousland, then he should reign Ferelden for several years, until the point bioware decides to do something with the political situation in Ferelden, and then King Cousland goes down (he dies), and the next game features a post King Cousland Ferelden, where the past PC could be referenced as past history, but it is not something relevant to the actual game.

I would rather have something like this, that hear at the end of DA2 that King Cousland suddenly "mysteriously disappeared", and left Ferelden to do something else. That intrudes into how the player defined the PC, what his priorities where, like "My Cousland would never leave his kingdom", and is just unnecessary: the PC already had his moment of glory on screen, there is no need to involve past PCs in mysterious new plots where they have stellar roles. Their time has passed, it is time for other protagonists to shine and let the past PCs fade in the background, until finally disappearing and becoming past history.


Honestly, for me, if they had just left The Warden alone in DA2 when it comes to potentially important stuff, someone like me wouldn't have an issue with not seeing my Mahariel again.

Now, any person can decide for themselves if it means anything at all, but to me, the kind of mentions made in regardence to The Warden in DA2 raised expectations again for me, things like Leliana looking for him/her, him/her having supposedly disappeared mysteriously, these things insinuate, even if only because a character like Leliana seeks their aid, that a character like my Mahariel still has a role to play in a future installment, ergo, DA:I.

Another thing is, I am not so much demanding I get to see my Warden, I want, before I decide how to obtain the game, have clarity on the Warden subject, I want to know in the coming year till release whether or not my Warden will appear and if she does, if she will have anything significant to add to the story, as these things can decide for me whether I pre-order, purchase on launch or wait for it to be in the bargain bin.

#85
crimzontearz

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TristanHawke wrote...

As much as I love Bioware, they aren't great at concluding stories. I'm left not knowing what has happened to my Warden, Hawke and Shepard.

This whole 'leaving it to your head cannon' is a pile of nonsense. Come on guys, learn how to conclude our characters story!

I mean, my Warden was in the eluvian with Morrigan. But now Morrigan isn't there anymore... So where is The Warden, and why did Morrigan abandon him?

precisely

#86
Versus Omnibus

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LucianaIV wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

For me closure means explaining what the PC is going to do after the game, DAO did this very well with the different dialogue choices at the ending and the epilogue. It doesn´t take a lot of resources, bioware simply needs to add some dialogue for the PC to express his/her postgame intentions, and then add some text that reflects that. The PC would keep doing that until something happened that would end his/her story, like dieing in a battle (again, shown in the background, not in the game).

These are characters on the background, that the game no longer needs to keep track of to appear in the game, so bioware can add several text outcomes. I don´t understand the expectation that the past PCs must appear in next games because they are important, i don´t think they should, i would rather they remain in the background (the codex) as doing things offscreen.

The difference is that the player would have a bigger agency in what the past PCs was left doing, they wouldn´t just disappear out of the blue, introducing new questions in the game about it. They would remain as background characters that would eventually be killed off once bioware wnats to revisit that area.

So for example, if you have King Cousland, then he should reign Ferelden for several years, until the point bioware decides to do something with the political situation in Ferelden, and then King Cousland goes down (he dies), and the next game features a post King Cousland Ferelden, where the past PC could be referenced as past history, but it is not something relevant to the actual game.

I would rather have something like this, that hear at the end of DA2 that King Cousland suddenly "mysteriously disappeared", and left Ferelden to do something else. That intrudes into how the player defined the PC, what his priorities where, like "My Cousland would never leave his kingdom", and is just unnecessary: the PC already had his moment of glory on screen, there is no need to involve past PCs in mysterious new plots where they have stellar roles. Their time has passed, it is time for other protagonists to shine and let the past PCs fade in the background, until finally disappearing and becoming past history.


Honestly, for me, if they had just left The Warden alone in DA2 when it comes to potentially important stuff, someone like me wouldn't have an issue with not seeing my Mahariel again.

Now, any person can decide for themselves if it means anything at all, but to me, the kind of mentions made in regardence to The Warden in DA2 raised expectations again for me, things like Leliana looking for him/her, him/her having supposedly disappeared mysteriously, these things insinuate, even if only because a character like Leliana seeks their aid, that a character like my Mahariel still has a role to play in a future installment, ergo, DA:I.

Another thing is, I am not so much demanding I get to see my Warden, I want, before I decide how to obtain the game, have clarity on the Warden subject, I want to know in the coming year till release whether or not my Warden will appear and if she does, if she will have anything significant to add to the story, as these things can decide for me whether I pre-order, purchase on launch or wait for it to be in the bargain bin.


Agreed.

#87
MaraGriffyn

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It all boils down to that silly line of Leliana's at the end of DA2, about the Warden and Hawke ~mysteriously disappearing~. Either it's a dangling red herring that should never have been uttered, or the fates of the Warden and Hawke are somehow tied into events coming up in DAI. Obviously, I'm hoping for the latter.

#88
LucianaIV

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MaraGriffyn wrote...

It all boils down to that silly line of Leliana's at the end of DA2, about the Warden and Hawke ~mysteriously disappearing~. Either it's a dangling red herring that should never have been uttered, or the fates of the Warden and Hawke are somehow tied into events coming up in DAI. Obviously, I'm hoping for the latter.


As am I.

Silly eh, how one single line like that can immediately drag all the Warden debates back up, until I heard that part I was quite contend with how DA: A ended for my Warden.

#89
MaraGriffyn

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And really, all I'd want is a simple "yes, the fates of the Warden and Hawke will be dealt with in DAI" or "no they will not". I don't need detailed story spoilers.

#90
Versus Omnibus

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MaraGriffyn wrote...

And really, all I'd want is a simple "yes, the fates of the Warden and Hawke will be dealt with in DAI" or "no they will not". I don't need detailed story spoilers.


I also hope the Inquistor will have a more definitive fate unlike The Warden and Hawke.

#91
MaraGriffyn

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Versus Omnibus wrote...

I also hope the Inquistor will have a more definitive fate unlike The Warden and Hawke.


Eh, as far as I'm concerned, either the Inquisitor lives or dies and I'd rather they not mess with it beyond that. Let me decide the details after the game is over. I can give or take epilogues. And I wouldn't have minded the "Hawke ran off and vanished" thing (assuming a pro-mage ending anyway, where Hawke is now likely a wanted criminal and thus has good reason for wanting to disappear) if it wasn't for, again, Leliana's one little line.

#92
crimzontearz

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I find this lack of communication rather....disappointing

#93
Versus Omnibus

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crimzontearz wrote...

I find this lack of communication rather....disappointing


Give it time. Bioware will answer soon.

#94
LucianaIV

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The trend is that Bioware will give answers when it's a certainty.

They stated that even before E3 they had already decided on bringing races back, they just didn't mention it because they wanted it to be absolute first.

#95
Versus Omnibus

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LucianaIV wrote...

The trend is that Bioware will give answers when it's a certainty.

They stated that even before E3 they had already decided on bringing races back, they just didn't mention it because they wanted it to be absolute first.


I don't mean to sound rude when I ask this, but how could they not have an ending in mind already?

#96
crimzontearz

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Versus Omnibus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I find this lack of communication rather....disappointing


Give it time. Bioware will answer soon.

unlikely.....Marketing and Branding keeps them gagged on even purely technical features (and not just them pretty much any developer)

#97
David7204

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No, you have it backwards. They keep marketing and branding gagged.

#98
crimzontearz

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David7204 wrote...

No, you have it backwards. They keep marketing and branding gagged.

no...you have it backwards

#99
David7204

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You know what, it really doesn't matter.

The point is, this is a good thing. They've obviously taken a lot of criticism for releasing information beforehand on previous games that wasn't true. They're trying to make amends.

#100
Fallstar

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The ending to DA:O was good. It's the ending of the Warden's story - which is chronologically after Witch Hunt - that I have an issue with. That needs some more details - you don't to have everything wrapped up nicely, and I don't see anyone asking for that either, so not sure where that idea came from. But a general idea of what happened would be appreciated.

As for DA:2, I personally don't exactly care what happened to Hawke. But for those who did, I can see why they would be frustrated by that 'ending'.