549 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Here's the bottom line -

Any kind of miracle preparation would be crap writing.

To you. Don't substitute your opinion as objective opinion.

That's really the end of it.So all these suggestions are moot. And that doesn't even touch how ridiculous implausible they would be.

That's your opinion. You're intentionally poking holes because you don't like something.

The Reapers have been extensively foreshadowed for two games as incredibly powerful. Anything less then the Reapers bulldozing the galaxy, at least at first, would be an utter cop out.

Not really. If we actually prepare for them and know they're coming, we can prepare some kind of countermeasure to curb their advance to make our miracle cure.

Really, you seem to be the only person against finding the solution at the end of ME2 and working towards it. 

It makes no difference from a meta standpoint anyway. The Alliance has 50 dreadnoughts? 1000 Reapers are going to invade. The Alliance prepares and has 500 dreadnoughts? 10,000 Reapers are going to invade. The Alliance has 5 million dreadnoughts? 100 million Reapers. You get the idea.

It's still better than the nothing that the alliance ended up doing.

[Steelcan]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The alliance also seemed to do a lot to prepare for the reapers before mass effect 3 and during the intro mission, its just thst their preparations weren't enough to counter the reapers and the bsd writting plauge. Its not like cerberus did a lot to prepare for the reapers outside of making a human husk hybrid, taking over omega and turning it into a death camp and resesrch facility, and making mass produced reaper implants. I'm on my phone right now but I can find some links later.

Also I remember the illusive man being none too happy when I destroyed the base, and more or less saying humanity could go **** itslef as long as cerberus was still around and thst I had no right to against his orders.

The Alliance prepared?  Why wasn't Hackett told?  He seemed to be totally taken by surprise by the attack.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Sounds like you're dismissing the idea because you don't like it. And being insulting. Feeling powerful?

Actually, I'm dismissing it because it's a really stupid idea.

So it does make you feel powerful?

Wonderful.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 16 août 2013 - 06:46 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Sounds like you're dismissing the idea because you don't like it. And being insulting. Feeling powerful?

Actually, I'm dismissing it because it's a really stupid idea.

To you. But that's a given. So why should we please you? I'm not seeing anybody else dismissing it as rubbish. 

[Sir DeLoria]

StreetMagic wrote...

The conventional victory would be better just for the fact that I could play through it. Instead of picking colors.

Yes, but with the way the Reapers were shown throughout the first two games, a conventional victory would seem unbelievable. Despite all that fighting in ME1&2 we could only kill one and a half Reapers.

[David7204]

An 11/10 jaw-dropping conventional ending would probably require some fairly serious tweaks to the Battle of the Citadel. But it could be done.

Modifié par David7204, 16 août 2013 - 06:51 .

[grey_wind]

CynicalShep wrote...
Yeah, but a conventional victory would rubbish something that has been stated or implied several times throughout the series - that Protheans were superior and still lost. Besides, I don't see any way short of jury-rigging major planets and nuking the Reapers that are stupid enough to park there. The unconventional method would still be a miracle solution, just like the Crucible. 

Depends how we're defining "conventional". I think what most people mean when they say "conventional" is that they wanted to beat the Reapers with this cycle's own strengths and innovations rather than some asspull handed to us by previous races who were just oh-so-much-better than us.

For example, had the Crucible been a superweapon that this very cycle designed after studying the remains of the Human Reaper and learning how relays like the Omega-4 relay work and can be manipulated from intel gathered from the Collector Base, then people would be complaining a lot less. We'd still have the superweapon that avoids cheapening the Reapers, but we would win the war on our own merits.

Modifié par grey_wind, 16 août 2013 - 06:52 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

An 11/10 jaw-dropping conventional ending would probably require some fairly serious tweaks to the Battle of the Citadel. But it could be done.

Not without serious retcons and re-writing ME3 and much of 2

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Conventional victory is completely unbelievable in my opinion. We'd need something to at least turn the tide. I think the idea of the Crucible itself works for that.

What the Crucible does and how it does it is bad. It was implemented badly and introduced badly. But the idea of what it could do is intriguing. I think the idea of using it as a weapon of our own creation, as Grey_Wind said would work best, and I do like the idea of using it with the Crucible.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 16 août 2013 - 06:55 .

[David7204]

Yes, rewriting the entire plot of ME 3 would indeed require rewriting the entire plot of ME 3. Surprise, surprise.

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Conventional victory is completely unbelievable in my opinion. We'd need something to at least turn the tide. I think the idea of the Crucible itself works for that.

What the Crucible does and how it does it is bad. But the idea of what it could do is intriguing.

A magic Reaper off button is intriguing?

Modifié par David7204, 16 août 2013 - 06:55 .

[wolfhowwl]

grey_wind wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
Yeah, but a conventional victory would rubbish something that has been stated or implied several times throughout the series - that Protheans were superior and still lost. Besides, I don't see any way short of jury-rigging major planets and nuking the Reapers that are stupid enough to park there. The unconventional method would still be a miracle solution, just like the Crucible. 

Depends how we're defining "conventional". I think what most people mean when they say "conventional" is that they wanted to beat the Reapers with this cycle's own strengths and innovations rather than some asspull handed to us by previous races who were just oh-so-much-better than us.

For example, had the Crucible been a superweapon that this very cycle designed after studying the remains of the Human Reaper and learning how relays like the Omega-4 relay work and can be manipulated from intel gathered from the Collector Base, then people would be complaining a lot less. We'd still have the superweapon that avoids cheapening the Reapers, but we would win the war on our own merits.

Unfortunately over half the players blew the collector base to smithereens.

It would have been better if the final choice of ME2 was to give the base to the Council (Paragon), Alliance (Neutral), or Cerberus (Renegade).

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 16 août 2013 - 06:56 .

[David7204]

grey_wind wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
Yeah, but a conventional victory would rubbish something that has been stated or implied several times throughout the series - that Protheans were superior and still lost. Besides, I don't see any way short of jury-rigging major planets and nuking the Reapers that are stupid enough to park there. The unconventional method would still be a miracle solution, just like the Crucible. 

Depends how we're defining "conventional". I think what most people mean when they say "conventional" is that they wanted to beat the Reapers with this cycle's own strengths and innovations rather than some asspull handed to us by previous races who were just oh-so-much-better than us.

For example, had the Crucible been a superweapon that this very cycle designed after studying the remains of the Human Reaper and learning how relays like the Omega-4 relay work and can be manipulated from intel gathered from the Collector Base, then people would be complaining a lot less. We'd still have the superweapon that avoids cheapening the Reapers, but we would win the war on our own merits.

Not good enough.

Modifié par David7204, 16 août 2013 - 06:56 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
Yeah, but a conventional victory would rubbish something that has been stated or implied several times throughout the series - that Protheans were superior and still lost. Besides, I don't see any way short of jury-rigging major planets and nuking the Reapers that are stupid enough to park there. The unconventional method would still be a miracle solution, just like the Crucible. 

Depends how we're defining "conventional". I think what most people mean when they say "conventional" is that they wanted to beat the Reapers with this cycle's own strengths and innovations rather than some asspull handed to us by previous races who were just oh-so-much-better than us.

For example, had the Crucible been a superweapon that this very cycle designed after studying the remains of the Human Reaper and learning how relays like the Omega-4 relay work and can be manipulated from intel gathered from the Collector Base, then people would be complaining a lot less. We'd still have the superweapon that avoids cheapening the Reapers, but we would win the war on our own merits.

Not good enough.

And what makes you qualified to judge? Why does your opinion matter again?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

wolfhowwl wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
Yeah, but a conventional victory would rubbish something that has been stated or implied several times throughout the series - that Protheans were superior and still lost. Besides, I don't see any way short of jury-rigging major planets and nuking the Reapers that are stupid enough to park there. The unconventional method would still be a miracle solution, just like the Crucible. 

Depends how we're defining "conventional". I think what most people mean when they say "conventional" is that they wanted to beat the Reapers with this cycle's own strengths and innovations rather than some asspull handed to us by previous races who were just oh-so-much-better than us.

For example, had the Crucible been a superweapon that this very cycle designed after studying the remains of the Human Reaper and learning how relays like the Omega-4 relay work and can be manipulated from intel gathered from the Collector Base, then people would be complaining a lot less. We'd still have the superweapon that avoids cheapening the Reapers, but we would win the war on our own merits.

Unfortunately over half the players blew the collector base to smithereens.

It would have been better if the final choice of ME2 was to give the base to the Council (Paragon), Alliance (Neutral), or Cerberus (Renegade).

You don't necessarily need the CB itself. I don't know, he didn't really explain how the CB would be implemented.

[David7204]

Tsk, tsk. What do you think Cerberus would say in response to such a question?

[CynicalShep]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Unfortunately over half the players blew the collector base to smithereens.

It would have been better if the final choice of ME2 was to give the base to the Council (Paragon), Alliance (Neutral), or Cerberus (Renegade).

Yeah, like that mattered in ME3 
Cerberus still got their hands on the baby reaper and tech from the base, no?

grey_wind wrote...

For example, had the Crucible been a superweapon that this very cycle designed after studying the remains of the Human Reaper and learning how relays like the Omega-4 relay work and can be manipulated from intel gathered from the Collector Base, then people would be complaining a lot less. We'd still have the superweapon that avoids cheapening the Reapers, but we would win the war on our own merits.

I'll admit, that sounds better than what we've got but you'd still be making a giant microphone to kill all the Reapers. 

Modifié par CynicalShep, 16 août 2013 - 07:02 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Steelcan wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The alliance also seemed to do a lot to prepare for the reapers before mass effect 3 and during the intro mission, its just thst their preparations weren't enough to counter the reapers and the bsd writting plauge. Its not like cerberus did a lot to prepare for the reapers outside of making a human husk hybrid, taking over omega and turning it into a death camp and resesrch facility, and making mass produced reaper implants. I'm on my phone right now but I can find some links later.

Also I remember the illusive man being none too happy when I destroyed the base, and more or less saying humanity could go **** itslef as long as cerberus was still around and thst I had no right to against his orders.

The Alliance prepared?  Why wasn't Hackett told?  He seemed to be totally taken by surprise by the attack.

They worked with the turians in adjusting the dreadnought restrictions and began building more of them. They did joint training excercises in a ramped up rate which almost provoked a war with the terminus and batarian systems. They had projects designed to look into possible reaper influence in history, increased efforts into collecting and researching prothean technology as well as researching into the technology involved in relays before the research was erased by batarian agents. They also mobolized the fifth fleet around earth and mobolized forces under their control, and had multiple recruitment efforts to boost allaince numbers. In the end though the reapers managed to just steamrolled over them like the darkspawn did ostagar, with cerberus and TIM playing the part of loghain.

[Alien Number Six]

Alliance. I don't side with extremist groups who's methods are as bad as the Na+zis.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Tsk, tsk. What do you think Cerberus would say in response to such a question?

I think they would say that you're turning an argument around to be smug.

[grey_wind]

wolfhowwl wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
Yeah, but a conventional victory would rubbish something that has been stated or implied several times throughout the series - that Protheans were superior and still lost. Besides, I don't see any way short of jury-rigging major planets and nuking the Reapers that are stupid enough to park there. The unconventional method would still be a miracle solution, just like the Crucible. 

Depends how we're defining "conventional". I think what most people mean when they say "conventional" is that they wanted to beat the Reapers with this cycle's own strengths and innovations rather than some asspull handed to us by previous races who were just oh-so-much-better than us.

For example, had the Crucible been a superweapon that this very cycle designed after studying the remains of the Human Reaper and learning how relays like the Omega-4 relay work and can be manipulated from intel gathered from the Collector Base, then people would be complaining a lot less. We'd still have the superweapon that avoids cheapening the Reapers, but we would win the war on our own merits.

Unfortunately over half the players blew the collector base to smithereens.

It would have been better if the final choice of ME2 was to give the base to the Council (Paragon), Alliance (Neutral), or Cerberus (Renegade).

It's still canonical that EDI datamined the Collector Base, since Joker pulls up the Harbinger datapad at the end and Cerberus scientists are able to determine that the Collector General was being controlled by Harbinger.

The decision to save the Collector Base itself could have materialized differently in the game. For example, it could determine Cerberus' success at Sanctuary controlling Reaper forces; save the Base and the Alliance gains significant War Assets for the final battle by using the discoveries at Sanctuary but Cerberus is a much more difficult enemy to fight, or destroy the Base and deprive the Alliance of war assets but render Cerberus a weaker enemy.

Again, these are all only examples that I'm making up on the fly. I'm not saying this would 100% improve the current narrative, I'm just offering ideas for what alternatives to the current plot could be like..

Modifié par grey_wind, 16 août 2013 - 07:05 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Alliance. I don't side with extremist groups who's methods are as bad as the Na+zis.

Were the ****'s methods truly bad?

Their motivations perhaps, but is there ever a situation where their methods would be acceptable?

Where Cerberus' methods would be acceptable?

[David7204]

It's perfectly possible to introduce elements of a story used to defeat the antagonist in the last entry without being contrived. The Deathly Hallows themselves in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows are an excellent example, although the wand ownership stuff not so much. 

Modifié par David7204, 16 août 2013 - 07:05 .