549 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathScepter]

Karlone123 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Karlone, you would fit in with Cerberus a great deal. We have great deals on new employees.

Many of us in Cerberus don't like Alliance as a Government.

Will I need a reference on my CV?

yes.and there are jobs for all moral preference.  Yes we do pay well and we are never boring. As long as you are effective, Your methods are up to your personal choice.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

DeathScepter wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Karlone, you would fit in with Cerberus a great deal. We have great deals on new employees.

Many of us in Cerberus don't like Alliance as a Government.

Will I need a reference on my CV?

yes.and there are jobs for all moral preference.  Yes we do pay well and we are never boring. As long as you are effective, Your methods are up to your personal choice.

Of course you'll have to sign a few wavers that might or might not have something to do with indoctrination and huskification...

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Cerberus is a tiny group of well intentioned extremists. I doubt their overall competency and efficiency, as well as their motives. They claim to have slaughtered a colony and a marine unit on Akuze as a method of experimenting on Thresher Maws. Y'know, there are easier (and safer) ways to test military technology. They differ vastly from the STG and the Spectres, in that the STG and the Spectres are dedicated to preserving the peace. The Council has kept the peace for thousands of years. Thousands. Humanity has been around the galactic block for a couple of decades. We have no idea how things work, and we have no right to interfere. Not only did Cerberus inflict injury and damage on allies of humanity, they inflicted countless casualties on their own species. You can't rationalise the pain and suffering that Cerberus has inflicted. Not when they produced so little to show for it. Sure, they get one tortured and broken biotic out of a hundred slaughtered children. Sure, they get humanity a few tech upgrades and some combat specs at the expense of dozens of dead aliens. Big deal. The Alliance got a prototype stealth warship by deciding to let old wounds heal and reaching out to the turians. Guess which one paid off more in the long run.

Overall, it is best to sum up what effect it would have had if Shepard had left Cerberus at the start of ME2. It would have taken longer for the Alliance to respond to the Collectors, however the population of the outer Alliance colonies is statistically worthless compared to the main human population. Given that the Collectors only possessed one single ship, it would have only been a matter of time before the Alliance defeated them by weight of superior numbers. The trade off? Humanity would have lost more colonies, but then those colonies would not have been used as cannon fodder by Cerberus. That is actually an acceptable sacrifice (coming from a guy who looks for ways out of sacrifices), as it means Cerberus is not able to split the war effort in ME3.

Frankly, once the Reaper War is over, my Shepard would liked very much to have Miranda and the other heads of Cerberus rounded up for trial. Nothing personal against Miranda, it's just that the amount of innocent people she's bound to have killed or supervised the killing of as TIM's second in command is unacceptable. The victims of Cerberus deserve justice.

You're trying to bait me, aren't you?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 août 2013 - 08:26 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Karlone, you would fit in with Cerberus a great deal. We have great deals on new employees.

Many of us in Cerberus don't like Alliance as a Government.

Will I need a reference on my CV?

yes.and there are jobs for all moral preference.  Yes we do pay well and we are never boring. As long as you are effective, Your methods are up to your personal choice.

Of course you'll have to sign a few wavers that might or might not have something to do with indoctrination and huskification...

Don't be stupid about it. You can avoid it easily enough.

[Xilizhra]

You're trying to bait me, aren't you?

No, disagreements are not baiting.

[Karlone123]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Karlone, you would fit in with Cerberus a great deal. We have great deals on new employees.

Many of us in Cerberus don't like Alliance as a Government.

Will I need a reference on my CV?

yes.and there are jobs for all moral preference.  Yes we do pay well and we are never boring. As long as you are effective, Your methods are up to your personal choice.

Of course you'll have to sign a few wavers that might or might not have something to do with indoctrination and huskification...

I'll sign it off as "self improvement". I tend not to judge people who have undergone huskification. I respect all of a life's choices. I have experience in catering so I look forward to working in the Cooking cell.

Modifié par Karlone123, 17 août 2013 - 08:41 .

[wright1978]

Astartes Marine wrote...

If I was able to take full control of the organization? Cerberus from ME2. I answer to no one and have a great many resources to call upon.

That could also swing the Alliance's way though as they have potentially greater resources but you have to answer to the politicians and public opinion...really limiting when you have a war to prepare for.


If the choice was just which one to be subservient to? Neither. The Alliance, especially it's leadership is hopelessly stupid and I'd trust the Illusive Man as much as I'd trust the Salarians not to meddle in other races' development.

Yep if my Shep and or Miranda was in control then for sure ME2 Cerberus would be my first preference.
Being a free agent would be my 2nd preference.
Having to deal with incompetent Alliance probably marginally above untrustworthy TIM.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

You're trying to bait me, aren't you?

No, disagreements are not baiting.

It's an in-joke; You wouldn't understand.

Trust me, I can almost guarantee Made Nightwing is trying to bait me personally.

I'm going to kick his ass on the next XBL mission...

That said, you get upset whenever anyone disagrees with you.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 août 2013 - 09:01 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

wright1978 wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

If I was able to take full control of the organization? Cerberus from ME2. I answer to no one and have a great many resources to call upon.

That could also swing the Alliance's way though as they have potentially greater resources but you have to answer to the politicians and public opinion...really limiting when you have a war to prepare for.


If the choice was just which one to be subservient to? Neither. The Alliance, especially it's leadership is hopelessly stupid and I'd trust the Illusive Man as much as I'd trust the Salarians not to meddle in other races' development.

Yep if my Shep and or Miranda was in control then for sure ME2 Cerberus would be my first preference.
Being a free agent would be my 2nd preference.
Having to deal with incompetent Alliance probably marginally above untrustworthy TIM.

I'd take untrustworthy over incompetence any day. At least I can trust him to be untrustworthy. You can't account for stupidity, even when you account for stupidity.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Karlone, you would fit in with Cerberus a great deal. We have great deals on new employees.

Many of us in Cerberus don't like Alliance as a Government.

Will I need a reference on my CV?

yes.and there are jobs for all moral preference.  Yes we do pay well and we are never boring. As long as you are effective, Your methods are up to your personal choice.

Of course you'll have to sign a few wavers that might or might not have something to do with indoctrination and huskification...

Don't be stupid about it. You can avoid it easily enough.

But isn't that kind of Cerberus' problem?

Trooper1: Hey gang I found a Reaper artifact!

Trooper2: Super! Let's study it intently while taking few if any precautions!

*Three weeks later*

Husk1: I for one welcome our new reaper overlords.
Husk2: God Phil you were always such a kiss ass!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 17 août 2013 - 08:57 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well Karlone, you would fit in with Cerberus a great deal. We have great deals on new employees.

Many of us in Cerberus don't like Alliance as a Government.

Will I need a reference on my CV?

yes.and there are jobs for all moral preference.  Yes we do pay well and we are never boring. As long as you are effective, Your methods are up to your personal choice.

Of course you'll have to sign a few wavers that might or might not have something to do with indoctrination and huskification...

Don't be stupid about it. You can avoid it easily enough.

But isn't that kind of Cerberus' problem?

Trooper1: Hey gang I found a Reaper artifact!

Trooper2: Super! Let's study it intently while taking few if any precautions!

*Three weeks later*

Husk1: I for one welcome our new reaper overlords.
Husk2: God Phil you were always such a kiss ass!

Unfortunately... Otherwise, Cerberus would be ruling the galaxy...

Oh well, at least they had an ideology and a vision and an admirable, if brutal, disregard for orthodox methodology.

[Cainhurst Crow]

And that is one of the many reasons I don't trust them with anything. They can't even assassinate the pope right.

EDIT: Scratch that, they apparently can.

"2171 - Pope Clement XVI assassinated via rosary beads coated with sodium nonacetate and dimethyl sulfoxide. Death attributed to age and heart failure. Replacement, Pope Leo XIV, has eschatological beliefs in-line with militarizing humanity; forgiving attitude to salarians re: genophage proves useful for strategic alliances against turians."

Man. Even for an agnostic like me that's cold.

Are we sure we're working for cerberus, and not the illuminati at this point?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 17 août 2013 - 09:04 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...




Oh well, at least they had an ideology and a vision and an admirable, if brutal, disregard for orthodox methodology.

Sometimes orthodox methodology (and the exhaustive saftey measures that brings) has its place, mostly when you're working with ancient mind raping technology of doom.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And that is one of the many reasons I don't trust them with anything. They can't even assassinate the pope right.

EDIT: Scratch that, they apparently can.

"2171 - Pope Clement XVI assassinated via rosary beads coated with sodium nonacetate and dimethyl sulfoxide. Death attributed to age and heart failure. Replacement, Pope Leo XIV, has eschatological beliefs in-line with militarizing humanity; forgiving attitude to salarians re: genophage proves useful for strategic alliances against turians."

Man. Even for an agnostic like me that's cold.

Are we sure we're working for cerberus, and not the illuminati at this point?

Trooper: Sir the current pope is being all diplomatic and... peaceful! What do we do?!

TIM: Time to try out the rosary of death!

Trooper: You have a rosary of dea---

TIM: Of course I have a rosary of death! Now if you'll excuse me I have to go bang a supermodel before staring intently at that star for a few hours!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 17 août 2013 - 09:07 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...


Oh well, at least they had an ideology and a vision and an admirable, if brutal, disregard for orthodox methodology.

Sometimes orthodox methodology (and the exhaustive saftey measures that brings) has its place, mostly when you're working with ancient mind raping technology of doom.

That's one of the times I guess. For sheer safety if nothing else.

To elaborate more, I'm against pointless and unnecessary brutality, of which Cerberus happened to do far more often than necessary, but if there is a real, solid gain from actions that might involve kidnapping, torture, and death, then I can say those methods aren't off the table in my book.

Then again, I don't subscribe to normal or traditional morality or ethics. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And that is one of the many reasons I don't trust them with anything. They can't even assassinate the pope right.

EDIT: Scratch that, they apparently can.

"2171 - Pope Clement XVI assassinated via rosary beads coated with sodium nonacetate and dimethyl sulfoxide. Death attributed to age and heart failure. Replacement, Pope Leo XIV, has eschatological beliefs in-line with militarizing humanity; forgiving attitude to salarians re: genophage proves useful for strategic alliances against turians."

Man. Even for an agnostic like me that's cold.

Are we sure we're working for cerberus, and not the illuminati at this point?

That seems quite practical. The Turians do hold a rather cold and colonial view towards humanity at that point. Even though I believe in a military and economic cooperative with them (and Cerberus does too considering that they were the ones who talked the alliance into developing the Normandy with the Turians), if attitudes like the Turians at that time prevail, I'd want some insurance against them.

Offer peace with one hand and arm the other.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 août 2013 - 09:15 .

[Xilizhra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...


Oh well, at least they had an ideology and a vision and an admirable, if brutal, disregard for orthodox methodology.

Sometimes orthodox methodology (and the exhaustive saftey measures that brings) has its place, mostly when you're working with ancient mind raping technology of doom.

That's one of the times I guess. For sheer safety if nothing else.

To elaborate more, I'm against pointless and unnecessary brutality, of which Cerberus happened to do far more often than necessary, but if there is a real, solid gain from actions that might involve kidnapping, torture, and death, then I can say those methods aren't off the table in my book.

Then again, I don't subscribe to normal or traditional morality or ethics. 

So far as I can tell, we never actually saw anything Cerberus did involving that that was gainful. Jack, for instance, was mostly a scourge of the galaxy, turned out to be unnecessary in ME2, and her helpfulness in ME3 came from undoing the damage Cerberus did and had nothing to do with her level of power, but her personality.

[jtav]

Both Normandys (encouraged construction of the first one)
Lazaus Project and Collector mission
Stopping a plot to assassinate the Council

I'm tempted to say Miranda should be cloned and put in charge of everything.

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

Both Normandys (encouraged construction of the first one)
Lazaus Project and Collector mission
Stopping a plot to assassinate the Council

I'm tempted to say Miranda should be cloned and put in charge of everything.

Bad idea. Look at what happened to the Shepard clone.

For that matter, Oriana is a de facto clone of Miranda. Do you want to elevate her?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 17 août 2013 - 09:25 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Would anyone mind If we just called cerberus the illuminati, seeing as how most of their actions seem to be illuminati-esuqe?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Would anyone mind If we just called cerberus the illuminati, seeing as how most of their actions seem to be illuminati-esuqe?

Neads moar SPECTRE.

[jtav]

It was a joke Xil. But she' the only Cerberus operative regularly allowed to accomplish things without unleashing worse horrors.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Would anyone mind If we just called cerberus the illuminati, seeing as how most of their actions seem to be illuminati-esuqe?

I'm for it.

That's what Miranda and Shepard basically turn it into post-war in my headcanon/fanfic.

[Made Nightwing]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Would anyone mind If we just called cerberus the illuminati, seeing as how most of their actions seem to be illuminati-esuqe?

I'm for it.

That's what Miranda and Shepard basically turn it into post-war in my headcanon/fanfic.

And so they live happily ever after, merrily kidnapping aliens and humans and experimenting Mengele-style on them in order to produce a strong master race. Ah, true love.

EDIT: Not sure they should be given credit for saving the Council. Cerberus just didn't want the batarians getting the credit for knocking them off.

And really, the Alliance doesn't get enough credit. Look at the CDN and the in-game war asset records. The Alliance was making some pretty fearsome upgrades to its order of battle. New dreadnaughts, expanding fleet sizes, installing Thanix cannon (which they got from the turians, not Cerberus) on their frigates, expanding the size of the Marines, cross-training with the turians, and generally putting together a tight defence. The fleet admirals got caught by surprise, but they managed to extricate most of their fleets from Arcturus, instead of throwing them away in a pointless last stand (putting the lie to Alliance incompetence), then manage to pull off some impressive evacuation operations on humanities major colonies, provide support to Shepard and then wipe out Cerberus into the bargain.

All the mistakes the Alliance makes are typical of those made by a peacetime military force, required to be peacekeepers and glorified policemen. Once it transitions into warfighting mode, things go a lot better. Even Udina is getting **** done making sure the rest of humanity is ready to fight, before he goes crazy with fear and seeks out Cerberus. (Oh the irony that only the desperate and paranoid willingly go to Cerberus)

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 17 août 2013 - 11:20 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Made Nightwing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Would anyone mind If we just called cerberus the illuminati, seeing as how most of their actions seem to be illuminati-esuqe?

I'm for it.

That's what Miranda and Shepard basically turn it into post-war in my headcanon/fanfic.

And so they live happily ever after, merrily kidnapping aliens and humans and experimenting Mengele-style on them in order to produce a strong master race. Ah, true love.

No, they... encourage the galaxy to move into a more Republican style of government that is reminiscent of the Galactic Republic of Star Wars. Meanwhile they do create a secret, Illuminati like organization that is dedicated to maintaining a very delicate balance of power in the galaxy as well as protecting it from internal and external threats and dangers. It also does continue to serve as a means to advance humanity (very similar to Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand if you're familiar with Star Wars).

Shepard and Miranda don't have to do the Mengele style of experimenting (not that there's anything wrong with it if a situation calls for it or if there is a reasonable enough benefit) to create a master race.

All they have to do is cure Miranda's infertility (shockingly easy to reverse considering it is curable by modern medicine) and have procreate. Bam, master race. Miranda, the perfect human, and Shepard, the guy who is pretty much a perfect human.