549 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Made Nightwing wrote...

pro-alliance bullshit.

Ah, shutup and get yer ass on Xbox. We can talk about it there.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 août 2013 - 11:30 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

And than out in the terminus, banished experimented on aliens band together against the new galactic republic after finding a planet inhabited by a race of red skinned males capable of breeding with any species, and who have access to powerful abilities that can manipulate electromagnetism called anti-biotics. Banding together for form the new galactic empire, they set forth to crush the republic, the humans, and every race who does not submit to their doctrine of emotional decision making and moralistic superiority.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And than out in the terminus, banished experimented on aliens band together against the new galactic republic after finding a planet inhabited by a race of red skinned males capable of breeding with any species, and who have access to powerful abilities that can manipulate electromagnetism called anti-biotics. Banding together for form the new galactic empire, they set forth to crush the republic, the humans, and every race who does not submit to their doctrine of emotional decision making and moralistic superiority.

How can I respond to this without inciting major paragon BH...

[Cainhurst Crow]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And than out in the terminus, banished experimented on aliens band together against the new galactic republic after finding a planet inhabited by a race of red skinned males capable of breeding with any species, and who have access to powerful abilities that can manipulate electromagnetism called anti-biotics. Banding together for form the new galactic empire, they set forth to crush the republic, the humans, and every race who does not submit to their doctrine of emotional decision making and moralistic superiority.

How can I respond to this without inciting major paragon BH...

Use heroism, that makes everything better.

[Made Nightwing]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

pro-alliance bullshit.

Ah, shutup and get yer ass on Xbox. We can talk about it there.

I'll be about an hour. Try to restrain your urge to manipulate society according to your own morality until then.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And than out in the terminus, banished experimented on aliens band together against the new galactic republic after finding a planet inhabited by a race of red skinned males capable of breeding with any species, and who have access to powerful abilities that can manipulate electromagnetism called anti-biotics. Banding together for form the new galactic empire, they set forth to crush the republic, the humans, and every race who does not submit to their doctrine of emotional decision making and moralistic superiority.

How can I respond to this without inciting major paragon BH...

Use heroism, that makes everything better.

I heroically terminate the beings for the greater good, thus heroically preventing my republic of free beings from being unheroically crushed by the unheroic anti-biotics.

How heroic is that for you? Is it meaningful enough?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Made Nightwing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

pro-alliance bullshit.

Ah, shutup and get yer ass on Xbox. We can talk about it there.

I'll be about an hour. Try to restrain your urge to manipulate society according to your own morality until then.

But traditional morality is so asinine, inefficient, and subjective!

[Xilizhra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And than out in the terminus, banished experimented on aliens band together against the new galactic republic after finding a planet inhabited by a race of red skinned males capable of breeding with any species, and who have access to powerful abilities that can manipulate electromagnetism called anti-biotics. Banding together for form the new galactic empire, they set forth to crush the republic, the humans, and every race who does not submit to their doctrine of emotional decision making and moralistic superiority.

How can I respond to this without inciting major paragon BH...

Use heroism, that makes everything better.

I heroically terminate the beings for the greater good, thus heroically preventing my republic of free beings from being unheroically crushed by the unheroic anti-biotics.

How heroic is that for you? Is it meaningful enough?

The most heroic thing for your PC to do at this point is probably suicide.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And than out in the terminus, banished experimented on aliens band together against the new galactic republic after finding a planet inhabited by a race of red skinned males capable of breeding with any species, and who have access to powerful abilities that can manipulate electromagnetism called anti-biotics. Banding together for form the new galactic empire, they set forth to crush the republic, the humans, and every race who does not submit to their doctrine of emotional decision making and moralistic superiority.

How can I respond to this without inciting major paragon BH...

Use heroism, that makes everything better.

I heroically terminate the beings for the greater good, thus heroically preventing my republic of free beings from being unheroically crushed by the unheroic anti-biotics.

How heroic is that for you? Is it meaningful enough?

The most heroic thing for your PC to do at this point is probably suicide.

That's so unheroic.

Killing the Asari is heroic.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

This is what my Cerberus under Shepard and Miranda would be.

It'd be much the same as TIM's Cerberus, except we'd also expand beyond human benefits. The general ideology would be the same, and it would be a primarily human group. However, we the methods wouldn't be quite as prone to the extreme as the original Cerberus. We'd use the shady methods, but the downright brutal and extreme methods would be reserved for the most serious situations. 

Really that's one of my few complaints with Cerberus is that too often they resorted to the most extreme method; TIM didn't really give much managerial oversight to his people. It made a lot of their experiments pointlessly and excessively brutal.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 août 2013 - 11:44 .

[Steelcan]

My PC killed all those people, survived the endings, and is immune from prosecution. Winning thy name is Shepard.

[Made Nightwing]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

pro-alliance bullshit.

Ah, shutup and get yer ass on Xbox. We can talk about it there.

I'll be about an hour. Try to restrain your urge to manipulate society according to your own morality until then.

But traditional morality is so asinine, inefficient, and subjective!

An asinine, inefficient and subjective statement if ever there was one. As Shepard would say 'It's not perfect, but it's kept the peace.'

Don't get me wrong, I want to replace the asari with races that actually do stuff (namely the volus and the quarians), and make galactic government more representative as a whole. I just object to having a secretive society manipulating it all. You can have freedom and an imperfect society, or control, manipulation and perfection. I choose to have a free system with flaws rather than your perfect manipulation.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Made Nightwing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

pro-alliance bullshit.

Ah, shutup and get yer ass on Xbox. We can talk about it there.

I'll be about an hour. Try to restrain your urge to manipulate society according to your own morality until then.

But traditional morality is so asinine, inefficient, and subjective!

An asinine, inefficient and subjective statement if ever there was one. As Shepard would say 'It's not perfect, but it's kept the peace.'

Don't get me wrong, I want to replace the asari with races that actually do stuff (namely the volus and the quarians), and make galactic government more representative as a whole. I just object to having a secretive society manipulating it all. You can have freedom and an imperfect society, or control, manipulation and perfection. I choose to have a free system with flaws rather than your perfect manipulation.

As I said, the Hand of Thrawn. That's what I'd be building, though much more Republican in nature.

You have freedom in my manipulated society. I'm not out to create a perfect system, and I'm not out for control minus the ability to ensure that no idiot like the current administration of the Council or alliance gets into power. 

I suppose I don't believe in Illuminati is a bad thing. If I wanted what you're suggesting, I'd just pick control.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 août 2013 - 11:50 .

[Made Nightwing]

Why? The Council system just needs to be a little more inclusive and egalitarian and that would eliminate most of the problems people have with it. After the war, all three ending speeches would indicate that galactic co-operation would be inevitable. No need for secretive societies. No more manipulation or double dealing. The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Strive for the best and let the dice fall as they will, it's worked out pretty well so far. The Alliance in particular has a good system of representative government. I'm not going to hold plot-induced stupidity against them, it was bad writing all around in ME2. ME1 Council actually had some good moments going for it. Their refusal to convict Saren was based on a lack of evidence, they otherwise assist Shepard fairly well (though being critical of his actions, he's the new guy after all). I liked what they said about how they created the Spectres to pursue the correct courses of action on their behalf. It makes sense, it's efficient, it's worked for over a thousand years. It just needs to be more inclusive of other races.

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 17 août 2013 - 11:56 .

[Steelcan]

Made Nightwing wrote...

 The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Ummmm no.  The war was a fine example of each species looking out for themselves until they had absolutely no alternative.

[Made Nightwing]

Steelcan wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

 The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Ummmm no.  The war was a fine example of each species looking out for themselves until they had absolutely no alternative.

Well, I always like to say that the first half of ME3 was 'Ashley was right about the dog and bear thing all along', but look closer. The krogan, the most 'violent and unreasonable' of the races come to the aid of the galaxy. The main salarian population (using Kirrahe as an example, not Linron) lends their support, as do the turians, the quarians, the geth, even the heel dragging asari chip in (eventually). And they're all there at Earth, not back at their homeworlds where they're needed desperately. Every ship they can spare. Cerberus methods didn't do that. Isolation and supremacy didn't heal the wounds between them. Shepard, by force or by persuasion, convinced them to co-operate with each other, and co-operate they did. I think that calls for a little optimism about the future.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Why? The Council system just needs to be a little more inclusive and egalitarian and that would eliminate most of the problems people have with it. After the war, all three ending speeches would indicate that galactic co-operation would be inevitable. No need for secretive societies. No more manipulation or double dealing. The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

I don't have that optimism. Ironic isn't it how we view the outcome separately considering our actual philosophies. I think it will be as you say for a brief period before things slide back into what they were. I'm rather pessimistic about what's going to happen.

I see a big power vacuum that everyone is going to try to fill. Ironically enough, I plan for Cerberus to actually work towards what you say will happen.

My Cerberus will be as the Empire of the Hand. It's going to mostly be a human organization that does still work towards human advancement (though not quite the politically realist/survivalist organization of TIM). Part of it's mandate will also be to serve as an organization that will defend against internal and external threats especially.

[Seboist]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Why? The Council system just needs to be a little more inclusive and egalitarian and that would eliminate most of the problems people have with it. After the war, all three ending speeches would indicate that gPalactic co-operation would be inevitable. No need for secretive
societies. No more manipulation or double dealing. The end of the Reaper
War leaves each race brothers. erhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Strive for the best and let the dice fall as they will, it's worked out pretty well so far. The Alliance in particular has a good system of representative government. I'm not going to hold plot-induced stupidity against them, it was bad writing all around in ME2. ME1 Council actually had some good moments going for it. Their refusal to convict Saren was based on a lack of evidence, they otherwise assist Shepard fairly well (though being critical of his actions, he's the new guy after all). I liked what they said about how they created the Spectres to pursue the correct courses of action on their behalf. It makes sense, it's efficient, it's worked for over a thousand years. It just needs to be more inclusive of other races.

Yeah and IRL our modern world is a peaceful utopia after the "the war to end all wars" (aka WW1).

I've seen a lot of naive Paragon posts in my time here but this one takes the cake. Rofl.

[The Heretic of Time]

Made Nightwing wrote...

 The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Do you seriously believe that after the reaper war the entire galaxy all joins hands and sing kumbaya around the bonfire? LMAO.

Perhaps if you choose synthesis something like that happens.

Or maybe even in control, when the CataShep forces the agressive races into submission.

But in destroy? Hahahahaha! NO WAY! 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Illusive man is still best palpatine. He'd come back via cloning and use "UNLIMITED POWAH!!!!" biotics to take over again.

[CynicalShep]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Why? The Council system just needs to be a little more inclusive and egalitarian and that would eliminate most of the problems people have with it. After the war, all three ending speeches would indicate that galactic co-operation would be inevitable. No need for secretive societies. No more manipulation or double dealing. The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Strive for the best and let the dice fall as they will, it's worked out pretty well so far. The Alliance in particular has a good system of representative government. I'm not going to hold plot-induced stupidity against them, it was bad writing all around in ME2. ME1 Council actually had some good moments going for it. Their refusal to convict Saren was based on a lack of evidence, they otherwise assist Shepard fairly well (though being critical of his actions, he's the new guy after all). I liked what they said about how they created the Spectres to pursue the correct courses of action on their behalf. It makes sense, it's efficient, it's worked for over a thousand years. It just needs to be more inclusive of other races.

The Council system will never be egalitarian. Stronger races will always have more pull than weaker races and will form under the table alliances (e.g. the Volus will kiss Turian backsides), Salarians will shake hands with everyone and create weapons of mass destruction, etc. 
Also, gratitude is a fickle and temporary thing. Old grudges will come back, new grudges will appear and the galaxy will go back to its own ways in decades. Makes sense having a secretive society as long as its leader is a sensible and pragmatic chap, not a madman on a powertrip. Say Wrex and Bakara are dead and the Genophage is cured with Wreave in charge. Would you take your chances after the war or assassinate him and hope for a better successor/influence who the next successor is?

Modifié par CynicalShep, 18 août 2013 - 12:05 .

[Steelcan]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Well, I always like to say that the first half of ME3 was 'Ashley was right about the dog and bear thing all along', but look closer. The krogan, the most 'violent and unreasonable' of the races come to the aid of the galaxy. The main salarian population (using Kirrahe as an example, not Linron) lends their support, as do the turians, the quarians, the geth, even the heel dragging asari chip in (eventually). And they're all there at Earth, not back at their homeworlds where they're needed desperately. Every ship they can spare. Cerberus methods didn't do that. Isolation and supremacy didn't heal the wounds between them. Shepard, by force or by persuasion, convinced them to co-operate with each other, and co-operate they did. I think that calls for a little optimism about the future.

The krogan come to help after their demands are met.  The quarians join after their issues are resolved, the turians join only after they get troops.

Literally not one government helped only because they could.  They only help after their own demands are met.

[garrus and ashley squad]

Now that there are a lot of pages about this. can we agree that they both suck, or is that just me?

[garrus and ashley squad]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

 The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Ummmm no.  The war was a fine example of each species looking out for themselves until they had absolutely no alternative.

Well, I always like to say that the first half of ME3 was 'Ashley was right about the dog and bear thing all along', but look closer. The krogan, the most 'violent and unreasonable' of the races come to the aid of the galaxy. The main salarian population (using Kirrahe as an example, not Linron) lends their support, as do the turians, the quarians, the geth, even the heel dragging asari chip in (eventually). And they're all there at Earth, not back at their homeworlds where they're needed desperately. Every ship they can spare. Cerberus methods didn't do that. Isolation and supremacy didn't heal the wounds between them. Shepard, by force or by persuasion, convinced them to co-operate with each other, and co-operate they did. I think that calls for a little optimism about the future.

Ashley has been right about more things than people will admit. Glad someone pointed it out.

[billy the squid]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

 The end of the Reaper War leaves each race brothers. Perhaps it allows even for the end of war itself. Cerberus becomes redundant.

Ummmm no.  The war was a fine example of each species looking out for themselves until they had absolutely no alternative.

Well, I always like to say that the first half of ME3 was 'Ashley was right about the dog and bear thing all along', but look closer. The krogan, the most 'violent and unreasonable' of the races come to the aid of the galaxy. The main salarian population (using Kirrahe as an example, not Linron) lends their support, as do the turians, the quarians, the geth, even the heel dragging asari chip in (eventually). And they're all there at Earth, not back at their homeworlds where they're needed desperately. Every ship they can spare. Cerberus methods didn't do that. Isolation and supremacy didn't heal the wounds between them. Shepard, by force or by persuasion, convinced them to co-operate with each other, and co-operate they did. I think that calls for a little optimism about the future.

Nothing like galactic wide extinction to focus one's priorites, namely survival. As soon as that's gone everyone goes back to playing king of the hill.