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[Reorte]

Nashtalia wrote...

the Only time i had agreed fully with The Illusive Man was in that decision to save The Collector base *shudders* at that moment i felt it was a rational decision against an upcoming invasion of the Reapers

i can vividly remember The Illusive Man doing the fist in front of his face impression and him saying to me: "this is it the frame-work, a plan against The Reapers" [something to that Effect]

Unfortunately the Collector Base decision always feels more like "Hand power to a nutter" rather than "Gain tool against the Reapers."

[Nashtalia]

Reorte wrote...

Nashtalia wrote...

the Only time i had agreed fully with The Illusive Man was in that decision to save The Collector base *shudders* at that moment i felt it was a rational decision against an upcoming invasion of the Reapers

i can vividly remember The Illusive Man doing the fist in front of his face impression and him saying to me: "this is it the frame-work, a plan against The Reapers" [something to that Effect]

Unfortunately the Collector Base decision always feels more like "Hand power to a nutter" rather than "Gain tool against the Reapers."

at this time, this was my first time having a proper ME experience, in thinking that The Collector base will suffice an asset coming into ME3 so during that moment, as i have said it seemed "Rational" to save The Collector base.

[garrus and ashley squad]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

A couple of points...

Shepard is an Alliance soldier - if Shepard had wanted to found a third faction (magically being able to build warships than the rest of humanity combined by himself? ) rather than working with the Alliance, then he wouldn't have become a marine in the first place. It follows that your version is not possible.

Secondly, at one point did "terrorist" become a minor character flaw rather than an absolute deal breaker?

Shepard had gained alot of alliances through being a spectre after the first 2 games. The krogan alone is a great support to him. He also was able to help the quarians and geth. None of the alliance was needed for that. He could of eventually broken off from the alliance. Though in the middle of a war it's not the best decison but I would of choose that after going through all that hectic stuff with the alliance, eventually it would of been possible and my shepard was tired of the council and alliance. He left the alliance to join cerberus why would he not leave again?

[Ledgend1221]

If only Cerberus had been written as the actual Pro-Human organisation.

[jtav]

The Alliance does have a habit of using Shep. Soldiers have resigned their comissions or defected for less than what Shep goes through so prior loyalty is not a disqualifying factor by itself, if the writers had seen fit to give us the option. I'd very much like the option to join Cerberus as envisioned by some of its members and even TIM a times. Were it peacetime, I'd support any and all acts that would destabilize the Council. The portray in ME3 is what's a nonstarter.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Pre-ME3 Cerberus. By far.

If they weren't indoctrinated, I'd side with Cerberus any damn day over the alliance.

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 16 août 2013 - 12:30 .

[Nashtalia]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-ME3 Cerberus. By far.

If they weren't indoctrinated, I'd side with Cerberus any damn day over the alliance.

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

i could quite image how your intial impression was, in the ME2 time-line

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Nashtalia wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-ME3 Cerberus. By far.

If they weren't indoctrinated, I'd side with Cerberus any damn day over the alliance.

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

i could quite image how your intial impression was, in the ME2 time-line

I don't follow, what do you mean?

[Jagri]

Alliance, while their inaction was frustrating I knew where Cerberus was going and my predictions were right... Sort of. I didn't think Cerberus would degenerate so far and fast to be an obstacle every step of the way in Mass Effect 3.

Still remember those days of long debates if TIM is or would be indoctrinated and what direction Cerberus would go.

Modifié par Jagri, 16 août 2013 - 12:37 .

[Steelcan]

<------ guess

[Nashtalia]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Nashtalia wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-ME3 Cerberus. By far.

If they weren't indoctrinated, I'd side with Cerberus any damn day over the alliance.

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

i could quite image how your intial impression was, in the ME2 time-line

I don't follow, what do you mean?

given on record you've tried ME2, and on  ME2  you [Shepard] have no choice in deciding to side with Cerberus, at least in the ME2 time-line and you have said you are most likely to side with Cerberus

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Why I'm a pro-Cerberus guy

This thread lasts for many pages, and I caused a lot of paragon butthurt. It was pretty entertaining, especially considering that I'm not a Renegade player. I play a neutral Shepard who's also the kind of guy who is more than willing to sacrifice innocent civilians if it means a beating the Reapers. The ultimate practical idealist as I call him.

[garrus and ashley squad]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-ME3 Cerberus. By far.

If they weren't indoctrinated, I'd side with Cerberus any damn day over the alliance.

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

I guess I'll post edit it. It is pre me3 cerberus.

[Br3admax]

Picking a group of sixty people to face the Reapers just sounds so illogical to me.

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

arguable indeed

[Steelcan]

Br3ad wrote...

Picking a group of sixty people to face the Reapers just sounds so illogical to me.

And pre invasion thats more than how many Alliance fools believe.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Nashtalia wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Nashtalia wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-ME3 Cerberus. By far.

If they weren't indoctrinated, I'd side with Cerberus any damn day over the alliance.

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

i could quite image how your intial impression was, in the ME2 time-line

I don't follow, what do you mean?

given on record you've tried ME2, and on  ME2  you [Shepard] have no choice in deciding to side with Cerberus, at least in the ME2 time-line and you have said you are most likely to side with Cerberus

My Shepard was rather against Cerberus in ME2 in the beginning (not the "I'll never work for terrorists type" but he remembered that they had clashed on several occasions, and my Shepard is a sole survivor. That's probably the one thing that truly bothered him about Cerberus was Akuze.) As the game progressed and he saw firsthand the alliance and the Councils ineptitude as well as being verbally berated by Ashley, he grew to despise the alliance. He did fundamentally accept Cerberus goals and ideology, even if he thought their methods were needlessly extreme much of the time. Too often they resorted to the most extreme methods. While not ultimately opposed to such methods if the context and circumstances of a situation called for such methods, essentially Cerberus is prone to overkill.

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Picking a group of sixty people to face the Reapers just sounds so illogical to me.

And pre invasion thats more than how many Alliance fools believe.

This is ME2 Cerberus, which is not an army of indoctrinated refugees.  60 people that believe me vs the entire human race is worth nothing. Cerberus should have stayed subtle. Think of how much influence that they could have had.

[Nashtalia]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Nashtalia wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Nashtalia wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-ME3 Cerberus. By far.

If they weren't indoctrinated, I'd side with Cerberus any damn day over the alliance.

Of course, this is from me, arguably the most vocal pro-Cerberus guy on the BSN.

i could quite image how your intial impression was, in the ME2 time-line

I don't follow, what do you mean?

given on record you've tried ME2, and on  ME2  you [Shepard] have no choice in deciding to side with Cerberus, at least in the ME2 time-line and you have said you are most likely to side with Cerberus

My Shepard was rather against Cerberus in ME2 in the beginning (not the "I'll never work for terrorists type" but he remembered that they had clashed on several occasions, and my Shepard is a sole survivor. That's probably the one thing that truly bothered him about Cerberus was Akuze.) As the game progressed and he saw firsthand the alliance and the Councils ineptitude as well as being verbally berated by Ashley, he grew to despise the alliance. He did fundamentally accept Cerberus goals and ideology, even if he thought their methods were needlessly extreme much of the time. Too often they resorted to the most extreme methods. While not ultimately opposed to such methods if the context and circumstances of a situation called for such methods, essentially Cerberus is prone to overkill.

ah, this i can understand...least what you've said on response, but given i was berated by Ash...upon meeting her for the first time [on ME2], at Horizon...given if she was very vocally strong about the Alliance, even if i have explained what the situation with me and my involvement with Cerberus...i have said to her that i'm not with them, but more-so in the lines of being involved with them [something to this effect]. but in no means i favour Cerberus as a whole, given i had no choice to either side with them or not [on my ME2 time-line]. and i was disgusted initially  that i had no choice being involved with Cerberus.

Modifié par Nashtalia, 16 août 2013 - 12:52 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Suffice to say, post-war, Shepard is going to reform Cerberus with Miranda. A more refined version, based a lot on TIM's ideals, but also on the ideals of promoting a new type of galactic government that's more equal in its representation of species.

[justafan]

Br3ad wrote...

Picking a group of sixty people to face the Reapers just sounds so illogical to me.

And in ME2, that's 57 more people in Cerberus that believe in the reaper threat than in all of the Alliance.

Like others I actually found myself believing Cerberus was necessary more and more as ME2 went on.  Of course they were extreme at times, but in the face of extinction, were any of the lines they crossed really that bad in perspective?  With the Council was doing nothing, it looked like it was up to Cerberus to solve the problem, and they made a lot of progress thanks to Shepard.  ME2 Cerberus stopped a Reaper vanguard and aquired valuable tech at the collector base while the Alliance twiddled it's fingers.

Had Cerberus been accepted into the fold prior to ME2, with all their tech and great minds like Miranda, TIM, and Shepard's squad of specialists, we might even have found out about the Crucible even earlier and avoided the catastrophese and indoctrination of ME3.

[garrus and ashley squad]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Why I'm a pro-Cerberus guy

This thread lasts for many pages, and I caused a lot of paragon butthurt. It was pretty entertaining, especially considering that I'm not a Renegade player. I play a neutral Shepard who's also the kind of guy who is more than willing to sacrifice innocent civilians if it means a beating the Reapers. The ultimate practical idealist as I call him.

I'm with you and agree with some of this. I don't think cerberus was as racist as people made them out to be. I as well think they were pro human along with Ashley but a lot of people called her a racist as well. I did feel cerberus did go to the extreme at times. I' am as well pro human and that's me not being all that fond of the human race. For me it's better to go with someone I know then someone I don't know.

With that being said both have flaws. 

Cerberus- Me and the illusive man didn't get along at all and I knew that patnership wouldn't last. Without the illusive man cerberus might have been the perfect spot, but I could not sign off on some of the things he has done. So I did what was best and used them and left.

Alliance- No one listened to me at all. Felt like I was talking to a wall the whole time. The council got on my nerves and dealing with them was just a pain. I did feel like dealing with Hackett and Anderson was a lot easier then dealing with the illusive man.

I honestly wish I could have used both on them. Unfortunately I had to go back to the alliance in the 3rd game. I wish I could have used the alliance (me1), then cerberus (me2) and then go my own way in me3 after getting what I wanted from both of them.

I don't know if I would sacrifice innocents for a chance at beating the reapers. It has to be a full proof 100% plan for me to even think about it. My shepard would however make people fend for themselves and not go out of his way to save them. Will always save 1,000 lives over 100 any day of the week.

Modifié par garrus and ashley squad, 16 août 2013 - 01:26 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Of course they were extreme at times, but in the face of extinction, were any of the lines they crossed really that bad in perspective?

In ME2 Cerberus did not do anything even remotely questionable to oppose the Collector threat... but they are still terrorist. Shepard decided to take space!Bin Laden's word without so much as talking to anyone else. Unless Shepard is a fanatical Kool-Aid drinker to begin with that doesn't make any sense.

ME2 Cerberus stopped a Reaper vanguard

Strange, I must have missed that part... or are you talking about the human Reaper that wouldn't have been finished in time to matter anyway? The Collectors did not any point pose a strategic threat; whilst Shepard saving a few remote colonies from abduction is certainly admirable it did not affect the war in any way.

aquired valuable tech at the collector base

They did obtain technology, but you are pulling the "valuable" bit out of thin air (I'm pretty sure that making Grayson into a Reaper avatar is the only thing actually mentioned).

with all their tech and great minds like Miranda

Miranda is a good project manager who had zero scientific input on Lazarus. What reason do you have to think that the Crucible project was badly managed?

TIM

What does he actually do? He's got a vision in his head, repeatedly shown to make mistakes in the books, and is completely blind to reality. Unless you know in advance that he's right about everything you don't want him in charge.

Had Cerberus been accepted into the fold prior to ME2, with all their tech and great minds like Miranda, TIM, and Shepard's squad of specialists, we might even have found out about the Crucible even earlier and avoided the catastrophese and indoctrination of ME3.

Alternatively, if these people had not decided to commit treason and work for a known terrorist organisation they could have joined the Alliance war effort sooner.

[o Ventus]

Br3ad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Picking a group of sixty people to face the Reapers just sounds so illogical to me.

And pre invasion thats more than how many Alliance fools believe.

This is ME2 Cerberus, which is not an army of indoctrinated refugees.  60 people that believe me vs the entire human race is worth nothing. Cerberus should have stayed subtle. Think of how much influence that they could have had.

150 people. People who are actually capable of accomplishing things, unlike ME3 Ceberus.