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[Steelcan]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

Roll with it then, but that interpretation is not the only one.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

Roll with it then, but that interpretation is not the only one.

It's the accurate one.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Steelcan wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

Roll with it then, but that interpretation is not the only one.

Fair enough. I just don't like them.

Doesn't mena others can't see them as a badass chiss admiral.

[garrus and ashley squad]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

(coughs)

Cerberus or the alliance

Neither, if given the choice. I'd rather work the independent angle, especially if I've got ties to the Shadow Broker.

As I've said before once, I'd go with the Cerberus route that is integrated with the old Shadow Broker. I'd have a superficial attachment to the alliance and Council that serves no other purpose than to keep them off my back while I'm out doing my thing.

Wouldn't you have to answer to the illusive man. For me that is just as bad, although maybe less annoying, but still just as bad

[Ledgend1221]

Actually, I suppose it comes down to this:
Who is Sexier, Phantoms or Shadows?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

From the ME Wiki:

"Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a g reater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the other Citadel races."

How does that not sound appealing?

Sounds like your average islamic or african para-military terrorist group to me.

Doesn't sound like that at all to me. 

Sounds like Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand.

Very appealing to me.

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

I don't see anything anti-alien or anti-council about Cerberus.

I don't see Cerberus as thinking they're inherently superior as humans.

I don't see Cerberus as thinking they're oppressed. Stifled in growth, but not oppressed.

I don't see Cerberus advocating that arms be taken up against aliens. 

I don't see Cerberus rejecting alien influence (that's more like Terra Firma).

I don't see Cerberus as wanting to rise up and make any species pay. As I recall, TIM told Saren to take similar actions for the Turians in Evolutions.

But I'll accept that as your interpretation, even if I completely disagree with it.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

Roll with it then, but that interpretation is not the only one.

It's the accurate one.

In your mind maybe, but not everyone

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

Roll with it then, but that interpretation is not the only one.

It's the accurate one.

Coming from you that means...... Somewhere between nothing and negative

[Br3admax]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

From the ME Wiki:

"Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a g reater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the other Citadel races."

How does that not sound appealing?

Sounds like your average islamic or african para-military terrorist group to me.

Doesn't sound like that at all to me. 

Sounds like Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand.

Very appealing to me.

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

I don't see anything anti-alien or anti-council about Cerberus.

I don't see Cerberus as thinking they're inherently superior as humans.

I don't see Cerberus as thinking they're oppressed. Stifled in growth, but not oppressed.

I don't see Cerberus advocating that arms be taken up against aliens. 

I don't see Cerberus rejecting alien influence (that's more like Terra Firma).

I don't see Cerberus as wanting to rise up and make any species pay. As I recall, TIM told Saren to take similar actions for the Turians in Evolutions.

But I'll accept that as your interpretation, even if I completely disagree with it.

All answers to these statements are "The Council/Anderson/every feeling I had, told me so."

[MassivelyEffective0730]

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

(coughs)

Cerberus or the alliance

Neither, if given the choice. I'd rather work the independent angle, especially if I've got ties to the Shadow Broker.

As I've said before once, I'd go with the Cerberus route that is integrated with the old Shadow Broker. I'd have a superficial attachment to the alliance and Council that serves no other purpose than to keep them off my back while I'm out doing my thing.

Wouldn't you have to answer to the illusive man. For me that is just as bad, although maybe less annoying, but still just as bad

I wouldn't necessarily answer to him, but he would be my boss so to speak. I'd make sure he'd get his **** together first and adopt a far more efficient managerial style. So long as he's not doing anything completely stupid, I'll work for him, so long as he also knows that I'm the operational commander. I think the ME2 interaction between my Shepard and TIM worked best. I'd have the original Broker giving me all the information I needed.

Beats working for the Council and the alliance. Outside of being a Spectre (which is nothing more than a disposable title that I do reject in ME2) and holding a permanent rank in the alliance, I have no affiliation with either of them outside my contacts in those organizations.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Br3ad wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

From the ME Wiki:

"Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a g reater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the other Citadel races."

How does that not sound appealing?

Sounds like your average islamic or african para-military terrorist group to me.

Doesn't sound like that at all to me. 

Sounds like Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand.

Very appealing to me.

"The western world, the council races do not recognize us as the rightful superior on the international  intergalactic stage. They want to keep us down and continue to opress our people and our economy. Our only course of action is to take up arms agaisnt them and fight the western world council races and all their influcene on our culture. And if we need to kill to do it, than we're ready to die to make the west council and it's american turian puppet masters pay."

That's how I interpreted cerberus and it's beliefs.

I don't see anything anti-alien or anti-council about Cerberus.

I don't see Cerberus as thinking they're inherently superior as humans.

I don't see Cerberus as thinking they're oppressed. Stifled in growth, but not oppressed.

I don't see Cerberus advocating that arms be taken up against aliens. 

I don't see Cerberus rejecting alien influence (that's more like Terra Firma).

I don't see Cerberus as wanting to rise up and make any species pay. As I recall, TIM told Saren to take similar actions for the Turians in Evolutions.

But I'll accept that as your interpretation, even if I completely disagree with it.

All answers to these statements are "The Council/Anderson/every feeling I had, told me so."

Eh? I'm not getting what you're saying.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Doesn't sound like that at all to me. 

Sounds like Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand.

Very appealing to me.

Thrawn:wub:

I love Thrawn.

When Timothy Zahn doesn't go overboard with him. While not terribly bad, there have been several times where Zahn's writing bordered on mary-sue grounds for him.

I'm willing to forgive the times when Zahn overreaches because overall his stories are enjoyable enough to make it tolerable.

Thrawn and Pellaeon remain my favorite Imperial characters.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Terra Firma works for cerberus, they get all their rhetoric from them and their current leader was a cerberus agent. Cerberus pretends to be an organization just looking out for humanity, but they have repeatedly shown to hire xenophobics, violent and sociopathic individuals, sadist, and into their orginization at all middle or higher up levels with no desire to curtail their behavior. They have assassinated or drugged important individual on the galactic stage whose messages threatened them or humanity is some way, and have been known to kidnap individuals and aliens, torture or experiment on them, and than kill them in mass graves. Most of their recruits are individuals who are bitter towards the turians after the first contact war. They're like terrorist who don't suicide bomb and have a means of acquiring vast sums of money. That's how I see them.

But I to accept your interpretation as one of many, but I hold mine as my own.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 16 août 2013 - 04:45 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Cerberus has always been an inconsistent mess either way.

Narratively, from an external standpoint, yes they have been. I still have yet to see a consistent depiction of them.

I think the most consistent showing I've seen of them is the Redemption/ME:Galaxy/ME2 showing. Cerberus was kept fairly consistent there.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Terra Firma works for cerberus, they get all their rhetoric from them and their current leader was a cerberus agent. Cerberus pretends to be an organization just looking out for humanity, but they have repeatedly shown to hire xenophobics, violent and sociopathic individuals, sadist, and into their orginization at all middle or higher up levels with no desire to curtail their behavior. They have assassinated alliance leaders who tried to make treaties or economic agreements with other council races, and have been known to kidnap individuals and aliens, torture or experiment on them, and than kill them in mass graves. Most of their recruits are individuals who are bitter towards the turians after the first contact war. They're like terrorist who don't suicide bomb and have a means of acquiring vast sums of money. That's how I see them.

But I to accept your interpretation as one of many, but I hold mine as my own.

Then we'll agree to disagree on Cerberus then.

[Br3admax]

Take the statement, "I don't see anything anti-alien or anti-council about Cerberus." Well someone will just come and say, "We'll the Council says this."

Or "I don't see Cerberus advocating that arms be taken up against aliens." Someone will say "well Anderson said that."

[Steelcan]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Terra Firma works for cerberus, they get all their rhetoric from them and their current leader was a cerberus agent. .

He wa sput into power by cerberus, but he is not part of the organization itself.  The rest of that was not even worth responding to.

[Cainhurst Crow]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Then we'll agree to disagree on Cerberus then.

I can live with this. We can all get along if we just talk.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Doesn't sound like that at all to me. 

Sounds like Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand.

Very appealing to me.

Thrawn:wub:

I love Thrawn.

When Timothy Zahn doesn't go overboard with him. While not terribly bad, there have been several times where Zahn's writing bordered on mary-sue grounds for him.

I'm willing to forgive the times when Zahn overreaches because overall his stories are enjoyable enough to make it tolerable.

Thrawn and Pellaeon remain my favorite Imperial characters.

I have an admiration for some characters, like Maximilian Veers, Firmus Piett, some of the other Grand Admirals, and Daala. Oh, my, Daala...

And Soontir Fel. Such a badass. Lorth Needa, the Captain of the Avenger was a good officer. Vader made a mistake when he killed him.

Also, the Imperial Knights. And the Fel dynasty.

And Voss Parck.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 16 août 2013 - 04:51 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Br3ad wrote...

Take the statement, "I don't see anything anti-alien or anti-council about Cerberus." Well someone will just come and say, "We'll the Council says this."

Or "I don't see Cerberus advocating that arms be taken up against aliens." Someone will say "well Anderson said that."

And my Shepard saw that Anderson was wrong. I differ from a lot of other people - my Shepard doesn't view Anderson as a father figure or mentor. A man, a decent one, and a capable warrior and respectable leader, but that's about it.

My Shepard is willing to make up his own mind about things, and he's made up his mind that he believes Cerberus is better for serving the ideals he believes in than the Council or the alliance.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...



 and Daala. Oh, my, Daala...

I... I don't even how can you....

Betrayal

[Cainhurst Crow]

I will say this, they were more proactive in fighting the collectors than the alliance was in ME2. So I can give them some props for that, even with how I feel about them.

[FlamingBoy]

Cerberus in mass effect 2 had some attractive qualities, making them interesting, especially for a "means to the end is justified" kind of player.

Cerberus in mass effect 3 was as interesting as a bag of sticks I found.