485 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

I hate mustard.

[FlamingBoy]

well I have to admit, I never seen some try an hamburger metaphor in relation to these endings.

personally I would trade the "mustard" for toxic chemical waste, to make it a bit more accurate.

[AresKeith]

I don't like mustard alone

[Rusty Sandusky]

It's more like you asked for ketchup and got mustard laced with rat poison. Also, I have a feeling this thread will quickly escalate out of control.

[Zazzerka]

I'm looking forward to hearing the bizarre metaphors people come up with.

[The Night Mammoth]

The ending's not bad, per se, it's more like a toe nail that you cut too much. It kinda stings and feels uncomfortable for a while, but it eventually grows back, and maybe next time, it wont hurt so bad.

[dreamgazer]

I like mustard, chili, and onions on my hot dogs.

That may or may not be a metaphor for my feelings on the ending.

[Red Panda]

I personally felt the endings tried to be everything to everyone.

With all the lack of focus from the changing ideas of the writers modifying the narrative, it kind of was doomed from the start.

Not that it was terrible, it's just that it was next to impossible to come up with a satisfying ending that accommodated everyone.

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

I like mustard, chili, and onions on my hot dogs.

That may or may not be a metaphor for my feelings on the ending.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sounds good to me

[AlanC9]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

If I got mustard instead of ketchup, I would be happy; I love mustard and don't much care for ketchup.

So basically, your analogy makes so sense.

In order to make the metaphor fit your personal tastes you may have to substitute other condiments.

Peanut butter, maybe? I've seen that one done.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 août 2013 - 05:30 .

[McFlurry598]

Copying this from my comment on a thread: 'My own time away from mass effect.'

I like the endings, I really don't understand why everyone hated them. I guess I was tired of seeing movies and playing games and sort of knowing, "Oh, the good guys will win, they always do." I thought that with Mass Effect 3, Shepard would destroy the reapers and live happily ever after with Liara(my LI). But seeing Shepard die and the species of the galaxy being pushed to the verge of extinction, was suprising to me, I loved the change, for once.

For example, I had seen Pacific Rim this summer, I had already knew that humans would win against the kaiju, it's just the way movies are these days. For a game example, Gears of War 3, had the most cheesiest disney ending ever(like most other games) I didn't want that, I wanted something new, something fresh, and that's what Mass Effect 3s ending gave me. No happy ending- but no bad ending either, it was reality, not everything has a happy ending.

[Red Panda]

McFlurry598 wrote...

Copying this from my comment on a thread: 'My own time away from mass effect.'

I like the endings, I really don't understand why everyone hated them. I guess I was tired of seeing movies and playing games and sort of knowing, "Oh, the good guys will win, they always do." I thought that with Mass Effect 3, Shepard would destroy the reapers and live happily ever after with Liara(my LI). But seeing Shepard die and the species of the galaxy being pushed to the verge of extinction, was suprising to me, I loved the change, for once.

For example, I had seen Pacific Rim this summer, I had already knew that humans would win against the kaiju, it's just the way movies are these days. For a game example, Gears of War 3, had the most cheesiest disney ending ever(like most other games) I didn't want that, I wanted something new, something fresh, and that's what Mass Effect 3s ending gave me. No happy ending- but no bad ending either, it was reality, not everything has a happy ending.

You know, I have to agree. It's a risk the writing team took.

There were consequences, yes, but I'd rather have the Mass Effect trilogy as it is now than any other way.

Well, except refuse, but I'm ranting now. We are all critics who outnumber creators.

[AlexMBrennan]

well I have to admit, I never seen some try an hamburger metaphor in relation to these endings.

You need to search the forums for my cheeseburger metaphor (if you are selling cheeseburgers then there has to be cheese regardless of how you think burgers should be eaten)

And I agree with OP - you can pull an ending twist as long as you do it properly but they didn't. Arguably, it would have been easier to play it straight.

[AlanC9]

I favor the theory that Bio didn't think the ending actually was much of a twist. Bio somehow seems to have convinced themselves that ME was always about making tough decisions and sacrificing stuff rather than avoiding any bad consequences. And the Reapers were always going to get some motivation rather than having them institute the cycles just for the lulz; I don't think the writers ever serioudly considered just leaving the Reapers inexplicable, which is surprisingly popular here.

[Kataphrut94]

The endings were quite silly, though I don't believe they were bad enough to invalidate the rest of the game. I also think some of the more pessimistic outlooks (like 3 ways to commit suicide, no difference apart from colour, choices don't matter, it's all a dream, etc.) are a load of rubbish. Presumably they thought the hints dropped by Vendetta would be enough to make the reveal feel genuine.

However, it is likely that Bioware simply didn't take into account, or were trying to subvert the common fan perception of Shepard as the biggest badass in the universe who came back from the dead to kick Reaper ass. That was more or less the standard view post-Mass Effect 2; just look at some of the TV Tropes articles from around that era, I mean Jesus Christ. An ending that wasn't just Suicide Mission 2.0 was never going to sit well with fans.

[Linkenski]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

They were unexpected. Our solutions to everything would be to blow things up and shoot people, but the game ended with Shepard choosing how to commit suicide*. It's not really a bad concept, it's just a very unexpected one.

Sort of like if you got mustard on your burger instead of ketchup. Yeah, it would be unexpected and unwanted, but it would still be an edible burger.


*Except for one ending. That one is left to the imagination.

You're completely wrong. The endings are objectively bad and literary failures.

[Ruadh]

Its more like ordering a hamburger with ketchup, then a holographic ronald mcdonald pops up. He tells you ketchup is chaotic and the only way to eat hamburgers is with mustard. Except this mustard will kill you but you can now control all hamburgers. Or you can have secret sauce, but it will kill you and everyone will become half hamburger. Or you can refuse and have a salad, but big ron goes ahead and kills everyone.

Or something like that.

[Bourne Endeavor]

McFlurry598 wrote...

Copying this from my comment on a thread: 'My own time away from mass effect.'

I like the endings, I really don't understand why everyone hated them. I guess I was tired of seeing movies and playing games and sort of knowing, "Oh, the good guys will win, they always do." I thought that with Mass Effect 3, Shepard would destroy the reapers and live happily ever after with Liara(my LI). But seeing Shepard die and the species of the galaxy being pushed to the verge of extinction, was suprising to me, I loved the change, for once.

For example, I had seen Pacific Rim this summer, I had already knew that humans would win against the kaiju, it's just the way movies are these days. For a game example, Gears of War 3, had the most cheesiest disney ending ever(like most other games) I didn't want that, I wanted something new, something fresh, and that's what Mass Effect 3s ending gave me. No happy ending- but no bad ending either, it was reality, not everything has a happy ending.

The majority do not criticise BioWare for the concept, but the execution. I am particularly fond of tragic or bittersweet endings. Hell, a downer ending can be satisfying, if done properly. Mass Effect 3 demonstrates the inherent risk should you fail the attempt. There is no correlation of events, emotional payoff or narrative consistency, all of which are crucial elements in a story. For instance, BioWare could have built a faux triumph story only for the Reapers to win as depicted in Refusal, if it was better represented and not perceived as either a player invoked "Game Over" or a proverbial middle finger from BioWare.

Would fans have liked Refusal as their only option? Probably not, but that has more to do with how Mass Effect is structured - player choice incentive, or it was.

Instead, we were received an exposition dump, contradictory narrative at best and speculation.

I also argue Synthesis fits your description of a "Disney ending," perhaps more so than any Fanon. The implications are that of a utopia where conflict and inequality of species are effectively eradicated. Everyone understands one another and will work together to usher everlasting peace. How is this not the quasi-Disney ending? In fact, Disney is often more depressing.

Kataphrut94 wrote...

The endings were quite silly, though I don't believe they were bad enough to invalidate the rest of the game. I also think some of the more pessimistic outlooks (like 3 ways to commit suicide, no difference apart from colour, choices don't matter, it's all a dream, etc.) are a load of rubbish. Presumably they thought the hints dropped by Vendetta would be enough to make the reveal feel genuine.

However, it is likely that Bioware simply didn't take into account, or were trying to subvert the common fan perception of Shepard as the biggest badass in the universe who came back from the dead to kick Reaper ass. That was more or less the standard view post-Mass Effect 2; just look at some of the TV Tropes articles from around that era, I mean Jesus Christ. An ending that wasn't just Suicide Mission 2.0 was never going to sit well with fans.

And yet there is well regarded comic on DeviantArt that has never even shown Shepard, yet is hailed as a far superior alterative than what BioWare offered.

Had BioWare opted for a Galaxy United conclusion similar to that comic, where London is essentially one long payoff of every species united having their moment to shine and only focused on Shepard's individual conflict with Harbinger or TIM. I can virtually guarantee the fanbase would have cited BioWare a god of the industry.

Sure, the perception of Shepard as a living legend are paramount in the fanbase. However, that is not the reason the endings were lambasted.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 16 août 2013 - 10:25 .

[Wulfram]

It's an exposition dump delivered by a faux symbolic glowing child. That's not a good ending to anything.

[Hadeedak]

Linkenski wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

They were unexpected. Our solutions to everything would be to blow things up and shoot people, but the game ended with Shepard choosing how to commit suicide*. It's not really a bad concept, it's just a very unexpected one.

Sort of like if you got mustard on your burger instead of ketchup. Yeah, it would be unexpected and unwanted, but it would still be an edible burger.


*Except for one ending. That one is left to the imagination.

You're completely wrong. The endings are objectively bad and literary failures.

Look, I hate being that guy, but.... It's really, really hard to objectively define writing as good or bad in a definative way.

It prompted an emotional response, which is one (vaguely subjective) measure of good writing.

[Wulfram]

Hadeedak wrote...

Look, I hate being that guy, but.... It's really, really hard to objectively define writing as good or bad in a definative way.

It prompted an emotional response, which is one (vaguely subjective) measure of good writing.

So trolls are the literary geniuses of our age?