485 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

The endings aren't so thematically revolting if you decide to craft your play through around a particular theme.

Make your universe centrally pro-organic, don't buy into the Catalyst's song and dance, and then blow the reapers to hell.

[Xilizhra]

I accept the fact that the Mass Effect fiction basically wants us to consider synthetic beings as truly alive, but it has also been established that they are fundamentally different in more than just physiological ways. Applying organic morals to synthetics is racist according to Legion. So this whole self-righteous angle that you've been playing for the past 2 pages isn't all that convincing.

Keep in mind that the context there was rewriting. Given their reaction to quarian attempts to wipe them out before the Morning War, I suspect they have the same self-preservation desire as organics do.

The endings aren't so thematically revolting if you decide to craft your play through around a particular theme.

Make your universe centrally pro-organic, don't buy into the Catalyst's song and dance, and then blow the reapers to hell.

Or embrace harmony and choose an ending that does the same.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 août 2013 - 06:36 .

[xThe Architechx]

Control is a choice you can make that doesn't "break" the game like synthesis or make you commit genocide as destroy or refuse. You sacrifice your body to become something close to that of a deity in power and knowledge, a good middle ground. Most definitely it has space magic involved but it's by far the least objectionable of the four endings in my opinion of course.

[jtav]

Xilizhra wrote...

I like the idea of Synthesis but the fact that I really have no idea what it is or how it works is something of a dealbreaker, as is the fact that the problem it purports to solve isn't presented very strongly. I prefer Control, even if it breaks my heart.

I have a similar problem, but why does Control break your heart?

This isn't BG2. Shepalyst will be a very lonely god, who has no peer. If he loves his former friends, it's the way I love my puppy. True companionship isn't possible. That's hell if it cares. And if it doesn't something vital has been lost.

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I like the idea of Synthesis but the fact that I really have no idea what it is or how it works is something of a dealbreaker, as is the fact that the problem it purports to solve isn't presented very strongly. I prefer Control, even if it breaks my heart.

I have a similar problem, but why does Control break your heart?

This isn't BG2. Shepalyst will be a very lonely god, who has no peer. If he loves his former friends, it's the way I love my puppy. True companionship isn't possible. That's hell if it cares. And if it doesn't something vital has been lost.

Build a clone of Shepard, redo Lazarus, and have her mindlinked with the Shepard-Catalyst. That was my plan.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

The endings aren't so thematically revolting if you decide to craft your play through around a particular theme.

Make your universe centrally pro-organic, don't buy into the Catalyst's song and dance, and then blow the reapers to hell.

Or embrace harmony and choose an ending that does the same.

"Harmony"  Or we will vaporize you isn't harmony.  It's a police state.

If Control was more responsive to the individual Shepard and was more grounded in the story (perhaps a Cerberus modification to the Crucible) I'd pick it in a heart beat.

[Xilizhra]

[quote]Steelcan wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]The endings aren't so thematically revolting if you decide to craft your play through around a particular theme.

Make your universe centrally pro-organic, don't buy into the Catalyst's song and dance, and then blow the reapers to hell.[/quote]
Or embrace harmony and choose an ending that does the same.
[/quote]
"Harmony"  Or we will vaporize you isn't harmony.  It's a police state.

If Control was more responsive to the individual Shepard and was more grounded in the story (perhaps a Cerberus modification to the Crucible) I'd pick it in a heart beat.[/quote]
Control is very responsive to individual Shepards, what are you on about?


[/quote]

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 août 2013 - 06:41 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Control is very responsive to individual Shepards, what are you on about?

I doubt my radical pro-human Shepard would use the reapers to rebuild alien worlds. 

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

jtav wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I like the idea of Synthesis but the fact that I really have no idea what it is or how it works is something of a dealbreaker, as is the fact that the problem it purports to solve isn't presented very strongly. I prefer Control, even if it breaks my heart.

I have a similar problem, but why does Control break your heart?

This isn't BG2. Shepalyst will be a very lonely god, who has no peer. If he loves his former friends, it's the way I love my puppy. True companionship isn't possible. That's hell if it cares. And if it doesn't something vital has been lost.

Build a clone of Shepard, redo Lazarus, and have her mindlinked with the Shepard-Catalyst. That was my plan.

Being way more trans-human sounds awful. Shepard didn't like the idea before and if they except it now, they will not be the same person, defeating the point. 

[jtav]

To be fair, radical pro-human Shep doesn't really exist past ME1. Go full Renegade and sabotage the cure.

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

jtav wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I like the idea of Synthesis but the fact that I really have no idea what it is or how it works is something of a dealbreaker, as is the fact that the problem it purports to solve isn't presented very strongly. I prefer Control, even if it breaks my heart.

I have a similar problem, but why does Control break your heart?

This isn't BG2. Shepalyst will be a very lonely god, who has no peer. If he loves his former friends, it's the way I love my puppy. True companionship isn't possible. That's hell if it cares. And if it doesn't something vital has been lost.

Build a clone of Shepard, redo Lazarus, and have her mindlinked with the Shepard-Catalyst. That was my plan.

Being way more trans-human sounds awful. Shepard didn't like the idea before and if they except it now, they will not be the same person, defeating the point. 

It was a necessary sacrifice to stop the Reaper invasion, and I think she'd take it over leaving everyone else to mourn. Especially after promising Liara that she would alwaysbe coming back.

[Steelcan]

jtav wrote...

To be fair, radical pro-human Shep doesn't really exist past ME1. Go full Renegade and sabotage the cure.

Sell legion, give the CB to Cerberus.

Then in ME3 don't do side missions that help aliens, don't scan for alien assets, etc...

Modifié par Steelcan, 18 août 2013 - 06:47 .

[jtav]

Fandango9641 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Synthetics are not alive. Nothing that doesn't form metabolic functions can truly be alive.

So you don't value the rights of life that is 'different' from yourself? Marvellous message. Well done Mac 

What

What?

He defines life differently than you. He can't disregard the value of certain life if he doesn't even acknowledge it to be living in the first place.

I accept the fact that the Mass Effect fiction basically wants us to consider synthetic beings as truly alive, but it has also been established that they are fundamentally different in more than just physiological ways. Applying organic morals to synthetics is racist according to Legion. So this whole self-righteous angle that you've been playing for the past 2 pages isn't all that convincing.

With that said, the loss of synthetic life is still a heavy consequence but I don't think my Shepard's decision making process is driven by racial prejudice towards them.

Right, so refusing to acknowledge that forms of life are indeed alive means that one can eliminate those forms of life with a clear conscience? Again, what a marvellous message. Well done Mac 

"REfusing to acknowledge" implies they are life. I hold that an AI by it's very nature cannot be alive and any consideration I give the geth is me putting RL judgments aside for the sake of fiction.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

To be fair, radical pro-human Shep doesn't really exist past ME1. Go full Renegade and sabotage the cure.

Sell legion, give the CB to Cerberus.

Then in ME3 don't do side missions that help aliens, don't scan for alien assets, etc...

That does not make your ME3 Shepard anti alien, just too focused on getting the crucible done or too lazy.

[MegaSovereign]

Fandango9641 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Synthetics are not alive. Nothing that doesn't form metabolic functions can truly be alive.

So you don't value the rights of life that is 'different' from yourself? Marvellous message. Well done Mac 

What

What?

He defines life differently than you. He can't disregard the value of certain life if he doesn't even acknowledge it to be living in the first place.

I accept the fact that the Mass Effect fiction basically wants us to consider synthetic beings as truly alive, but it has also been established that they are fundamentally different in more than just physiological ways. Applying organic morals to synthetics is racist according to Legion. So this whole self-righteous angle that you've been playing for the past 2 pages isn't all that convincing.

With that said, the loss of synthetic life is still a heavy consequence but I don't think my Shepard's decision making process is driven by racial prejudice towards them.

Right, so refusing to acknowledge that forms of life are indeed alive means that one can eliminate those forms of life with a clear conscience? Again, what a marvellous message. Well done Mac 

If that was his motivation for choosing Destroy, then yes. Not everyone picks Destroy for the same reasons.

[Xilizhra]

"REfusing to acknowledge" implies they are life. I hold that an AI by it's very nature cannot be alive and any consideration I give the geth is me putting RL judgments aside for the sake of fiction.

Semantics about metabolic processes are irrelevant. If it thinks for itself, it deserves the same considerations as anything organic.

[Br3admax]

Bacteria are not sentient, but they are alive. If being sentient were the criteria for life, bacteria, plants, fungi, none of them would be alive.

[Steelcan]

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

To be fair, radical pro-human Shep doesn't really exist past ME1. Go full Renegade and sabotage the cure.

Sell legion, give the CB to Cerberus.

Then in ME3 don't do side missions that help aliens, don't scan for alien assets, etc...

That does not make your ME3 Shepard anti alien, just too focused on getting the crucible done or too lazy.

.  its a meta explanation for sure.  but it still works

Modifié par Steelcan, 18 août 2013 - 06:52 .

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

Bacteria are not sentient, but they are alive. If being sentient were the criteria for life, bacteria, plants, fungi, none of them would be alive.

In that case "alive" is a meaningless term when trying to decide rights and regard.

[MegaSovereign]

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

To be fair, radical pro-human Shep doesn't really exist past ME1. Go full Renegade and sabotage the cure.

Sell legion, give the CB to Cerberus.

Then in ME3 don't do side missions that help aliens, don't scan for alien assets, etc...

That does not make your ME3 Shepard anti alien, just too focused on getting the crucible done or too lazy.

-Sabotage genophage cure
'
-Get the Salarian councilor killed during the coup.

-Get your alien squadmates killed

-Pick Geth over Quarians.

-Pick Destroy

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 18 août 2013 - 06:54 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

To be fair, radical pro-human Shep doesn't really exist past ME1. Go full Renegade and sabotage the cure.

Sell legion, give the CB to Cerberus.

Then in ME3 don't do side missions that help aliens, don't scan for alien assets, etc...

That does not make your ME3 Shepard anti alien, just too focused on getting the crucible done or too lazy.

. 

its a meta explanation for sure.  but it still works

Hardly.

I don't blame you for wanting the option of being able to continue ME1 Shepard's viewpoint regarding certain subjects. But the fact is that such options are no longer available in ME2/3.

[Steelcan]

Fandango9641 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Right, so refusing to acknowledge that forms of life are indeed alive means that one can eliminate those forms of life with a clear conscience? Again, what a marvellous message. Well done Mac 

"REfusing to acknowledge" implies they are life. I hold that an AI by it's very nature cannot be alive and any consideration I give the geth is me putting RL judgments aside for the sake of fiction.

What a horribly xenophobic statement.

Xenophobic pertains to aliens, not AI's.  Besides aliens can at least claim being life.  Synthetics are just 1's and 0's.