485 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Fandango9641 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Right, so refusing to acknowledge that forms of life are indeed alive means that one can eliminate those forms of life with a clear conscience? Again, what a marvellous message. Well done Mac 

"REfusing to acknowledge" implies they are life. I hold that an AI by it's very nature cannot be alive and any consideration I give the geth is me putting RL judgments aside for the sake of fiction.

What a horribly xenophobic statement.

Where's the irrational hate? I don't see it. 

[Steelcan]

Lizardviking wrote...


Hardly.

I don't blame you for wanting the option of being able to continue ME1 Shepard's viewpoint regarding certain subjects. But the fact is that such options are no longer available in ME2/3.

I'd say it is still alive in ME2.  ME3 is a bit of an issue for sure.

[jtav]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]"REfusing to acknowledge" implies they are life. I hold that an AI by it's very nature cannot be alive and any consideration I give the geth is me putting RL judgments aside for the sake of fiction.[/quote]
Semantics about metabolic processes are irrelevant. If it thinks for itself, it deserves the same considerations as anything organic.[/quote It doesn't have a soul. It's no more alive than the enemy AI in the game. AI can only ever simulate life.

And while I'm at it, we're alone in the universe and we;re not leaving the solar system. I accept the validity of synthetics the same way and for the same reasons I accept the existence of batarians.

[Xilizhra]

It doesn't have a soul. It's no more alive than the enemy AI in the game. AI can only ever simulate life.

While trying to invalidate the rights of a sapient being based on religion is utterly disgusting and the very source of some of humanity's most heinous atrocities... actually, no, I don't really need to say much else.

[DarthLaxian]

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

It's more like you asked for ketchup and got mustard laced with rat poison. Also, I have a feeling this thread will quickly escalate out of control.

not rat poison (that can be survived) - more like say something like Polonium (radio-active substance that is quite poisonous and used by russia (at least strongly suspected!) to kill political dissidents)

greetings LAX
ps: It was bad enough that they almost managed to snuff out the Bioware-Faith-Flame i have inside myself (as they are - still - the game developper i like the most, as their games have everything i like: good story, strong characters, long playtime normally etc....well at least they normally do (yes DA2 und ME3 I am looking a you two disapointments!))

[xThe Architechx]

jtav wrote...
This isn't BG2.

BG2 is what control should have been.

Modifié par xThe Architechx, 18 août 2013 - 07:04 .

[Br3admax]

If it is irrational or unreasoned fear of something foreign then where is it? Where is the fear and hate in that statement.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

To be fair, radical pro-human Shep doesn't really exist past ME1. Go full Renegade and sabotage the cure.

Sell legion, give the CB to Cerberus.

Then in ME3 don't do side missions that help aliens, don't scan for alien assets, etc...

That does not make your ME3 Shepard anti alien, just too focused on getting the crucible done or too lazy.

-Sabotage genophage cure

That just means that you believe that the Krogans are too untrustworthy in a post war scenario, and while that might be anti-krogan, it does not make Shepard generally anti-alien.

MegaSovereign wrote...
-Get the Salarian councilor killed during the coup.

Not of Shepard's choice and AFAIK he gets rather upset about it.

MegaSovereign wrote...
-Get your alien squadmates killed

Many of their deaths are not Shepard delibetratly killing them. And those that are is because Shepard has no choice (such as Mordin not backing down and going to try dispensing the cure).

MegaSovereign wrote...
-Pick Geth over Quarians.

That is more anti-synthethic than anti-alien.

MegaSovereign wrote...
-Pick Destroy

A sacfrifice. Shepard prefers to sacrifice one robot to kill the Reapers.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 18 août 2013 - 07:07 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...


Hardly.

I don't blame you for wanting the option of being able to continue ME1 Shepard's viewpoint regarding certain subjects. But the fact is that such options are no longer available in ME2/3.

I'd say it is still alive in ME2.  ME3 is a bit of an issue for sure.

I disagree. There are a few moments, but as a whole it is gone in ME2.

[Br3admax]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Right, so refusing to acknowledge that forms of life are indeed alive means that one can eliminate those forms of life with a clear conscience? Again, what a marvellous message. Well done Mac 

"REfusing to acknowledge" implies they are life. I hold that an AI by it's very nature cannot be alive and any consideration I give the geth is me putting RL judgments aside for the sake of fiction.

What a horribly xenophobic statement.

Where's the irrational hate? I don't see it. 

Then wipe the **** from your eyes lad - it's clear enough.

No it's not. Point it out to me, oh wise one. 

[MegaSovereign]

I think you read some of my points wrong. Regardless, all I'm saying is that these choices essentially handicap many of the other races. While they may not be pro-human, they certainly are anti-alien.

[Xilizhra]

No it's not. Point it out to me, oh wise one.

Hate is frequently less problematic than utter disregard.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 août 2013 - 07:08 .

[MegaSovereign]

Xilizhra wrote...

No it's not. Point it out to me, oh wise one.

Hate is frequently less problematic than utter disregard.

Funny you mention that. Any harm that synthetics commit to organics in the ME fiction is out of utter disregard, not hate.

[dorktainian]

lets think, sacrificing artificial life in favour of stopping millenia old killing machines responsible for the deaths of quadrillions of sentient creatures?

or let the reapers kill us?


tough call...........................not.

[Xilizhra]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No it's not. Point it out to me, oh wise one.

Hate is frequently less problematic than utter disregard.

Funny you mention that. Any harm that synthetics commit to organics in the ME fiction is out of utter disregard, not hate.

Much harm done on both sides, really. A case for Synthesis?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I think you read some of my points wrong. Regardless, all I'm saying is that these choices essentially handicap many of the other races. While they may not be pro-human, they certainly are anti-alien.

I disagree.

Your last two points with the Geth and destroy is more about being anti-synthethic, which I never claimed you couldn't be.

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

No it's not. Point it out to me, oh wise one.

Hate is frequently less problematic than utter disregard.

That is true, but I was pointing out how the word xenophobia is just thrown around like it is synomonous with racism. They are too very different things. 

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No it's not. Point it out to me, oh wise one.

Hate is frequently less problematic than utter disregard.

Funny you mention that. Any harm that synthetics commit to organics in the ME fiction is out of utter disregard, not hate.

Much harm done on both sides, really. A case for Synthesis?

If you interpret it that way

[MegaSovereign]

Lizardviking wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I think you read some of my points wrong. Regardless, all I'm saying is that these choices essentially handicap many of the other races. While they may not be pro-human, they certainly are anti-alien.

I disagree.

Your last two points with the Geth and destroy is more about being anti-synthethic, which I never claimed you couldn't be.

It's not really anti-synthetic. From an in-universe perspective its plausible that a Renegade Shepard could view the Geth as more useful. Temporarily using the Geth as tools and then killing them later by choosing Destroy leaves Rannoch unoccupied.

Let's put it this way:

By the end of ME3 with these choices:

The Krogan are on the verge of extinction

The Salarians lost yet another councilor (if the first one was lost in ME1).

The Quarians are extinct

The Geth are extinct

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 18 août 2013 - 07:17 .

[Br3admax]

It's a desert planet with just a few areas that are actually useful. Why would you even want it unless it was the only place that your species could possibly survive?

[Armass81]

Ending thread # 47394937593843, a reminder:

I think some of you people should really consider leaving this ending behind you, before it escalates into something like this on ME side too:

http://metro.co.uk/2...family-3925970/

Psycho nerds, we dont need these kind of people here, that go too far.Im not talking to all of you here, only the most fanatical, who might have tough something like this. You recognize yourselves... please let it go before the gun goes off and you screw it up for us all.

Modifié par Armass81, 18 août 2013 - 07:20 .

[Br3admax]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Right, so refusing to acknowledge that forms of life are indeed alive means that one can eliminate those forms of life with a clear conscience? Again, what a marvellous message. Well done Mac 

"REfusing to acknowledge" implies they are life. I hold that an AI by it's very nature cannot be alive and any consideration I give the geth is me putting RL judgments aside for the sake of fiction.

What a horribly xenophobic statement.

Where's the irrational hate? I don't see it. 

Then wipe the **** from your eyes lad - it's clear enough.

No it's not. Point it out to me, oh wise one. 

You don't see the contempt inherent in the view that life must be organic to be considered life? Oh dear! As I said earlier, to show such disregard for the rights of the Geth, based on nothing other than their being a 'divergent' form of life, is horribly - and quite obviously - xenophobic. What is it you're having trouble understanding here?

Once again, you have used xenophobic as if it were the same as racism or prejudice. It is not.