485 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Well, all choices are good in the way that they are at least an improvement from the harvesting cycle...

[o Ventus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

And does the incompetent execution of Synthesis not make it morally unpleasant (look who am asking)? And, at best, Control is a choice that champions authoritarian domination and slavery - at worst despotism.

Again, three very sketchy choices and three choices that support Dray's point about the thematic statement of the entire game! Explicitly!

The outcome actually looks fine and does not seem to have damaged anyone's free will, it just wasn't explained well. As for Control, there's no required domination over anyone.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't support the notion, which is what the person is saying.

What logical, in-unverse reason could Shepard possibly have to pick Control?

[alifish1988]

 Anyone ever notice that the planet the Normandy crashes on is the same one that Jacobs father crashed on in ME2.

[Obadiah]

It might "look" the same...

[Br3admax]

It could be Aite. Even the Startgazer scene could be on either of these planets. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 18 août 2013 - 05:23 .

[Xilizhra]

o Ventus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

And does the incompetent execution of Synthesis not make it morally unpleasant (look who am asking)? And, at best, Control is a choice that champions authoritarian domination and slavery - at worst despotism.

Again, three very sketchy choices and three choices that support Dray's point about the thematic statement of the entire game! Explicitly!

The outcome actually looks fine and does not seem to have damaged anyone's free will, it just wasn't explained well. As for Control, there's no required domination over anyone.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't support the notion, which is what the person is saying.

What logical, in-unverse reason could Shepard possibly have to pick Control?

Distaste for genocide? Not much else is really required.

Synthesis is trickier because it means that both Destroy and Control are less appealing. My best guess thus far is a fear that becoming the Catalyst would damage Shepard's identity, which might lead to long-term problems. However, I'm beginning to suspect that while I personally believe Control to be the most practical choice, my Shepard might choose Synthesis. Similarly, my Shepard will destroy the Collector base even though I in the same situation might salvage it.

[o Ventus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Distaste for genocide? Not much else is really required.

Synthesis is trickier because it means that both Destroy and Control are less appealing. My best guess thus far is a fear that becoming the Catalyst would damage Shepard's identity, which might lead to long-term problems. However, I'm beginning to suspect that while I personally believe Control to be the most practical choice, my Shepard might choose Synthesis. Similarly, my Shepard will destroy the Collector base even though I in the same situation might salvage it.

So a distaste for genocide advocates holding Cotrol, but not Destroy? From Shepard's mindset at the time of making the choice, what part of Destroy involves genocide?

Modifié par o Ventus, 18 août 2013 - 05:39 .

[Xilizhra]

o Ventus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Distaste for genocide? Not much else is really required.

Synthesis is trickier because it means that both Destroy and Control are less appealing. My best guess thus far is a fear that becoming the Catalyst would damage Shepard's identity, which might lead to long-term problems. However, I'm beginning to suspect that while I personally believe Control to be the most practical choice, my Shepard might choose Synthesis. Similarly, my Shepard will destroy the Collector base even though I in the same situation might salvage it.

So a distaste for genocide advocates holding Cotrol, but not Destroy? From Shepard's mindset at the time of making the voice, what part of Destroy involves genocide?

"Kill all synthetics."

[o Ventus]

Xilizhra wrote...

"Kill all synthetics."

"From Shepard's mindset at the time of making the choice". When is Shepard aware that he or she killed all synthetics?

Using after-the-fact information to justify a choice is fine, but not when you're debating the choice wih another person.

[Fixers0]

I quite don't see the connection between destroying a certain type of machinery and commiting genocide.

[jtav]

I like the idea of Synthesis but the fact that I really have no idea what it is or how it works is something of a dealbreaker, as is the fact that the problem it purports to solve isn't presented very strongly. I prefer Control, even if it breaks my heart.

[Br3admax]

That's if you consider synthetics alive, of course. As of the time of the choice, they do not fit the definition of life.

[KaiserShep]

Shepard does acknowledge the destruction of synthetics as a consequence of choosing to destroy the reapers.

[Br3admax]

Synthetics are not alive. Nothing that doesn't form metabolic functions can truly be alive.

[KaiserShep]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I quite don't see the connection between destroying a certain type of machinery and commiting genocide.

You reading this Mac?

Take the Star Trek: TNG episode "Measure of a Man", in which a scientist wants to dismantle Data to study him, and Data is arguing for his right to self-determinate. In both this story, and in Mass Effect, synthetic beings differentiate themselves from other types of machinery simply by being sentient, establishing their own preferences and having more abstract purposes. This isn't something that can be conveniently ignored, and it makes the question of whether or not a sentient being is a valid form of life rather tricky.

[MegaSovereign]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Synthetics are not alive. Nothing that doesn't form metabolic functions can truly be alive.

So you don't value the rights of life that is different from yourself? Marvellous message. Well done Mac 

What

[Xilizhra]

o Ventus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

"Kill all synthetics."

"From Shepard's mindset at the time of making the choice". When is Shepard aware that he or she killed all synthetics?

Using after-the-fact information to justify a choice is fine, but not when you're debating the choice wih another person.

The Catalyst explicitly says that it'll target all synthetics.

I like the idea of Synthesis but
the fact that I really have no idea what it is or how it works is
something of a dealbreaker, as is the fact that the problem it purports
to solve isn't presented very strongly. I prefer Control, even if it
breaks my heart.

I have a similar problem, but why does Control break your heart?

[Br3admax]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Synthetics are not alive. Nothing that doesn't form metabolic functions can truly be alive.

So you don't value the rights of life that is different from yourself? Marvellous message. Well done Mac 

Well I'm actually alive so yeah, I don't care for a toy. My computer isn't alive just because it can do math, which is all sythetic life is. 

[MegaSovereign]

Fandango9641 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Synthetics are not alive. Nothing that doesn't form metabolic functions can truly be alive.

So you don't value the rights of life that is 'different' from yourself? Marvellous message. Well done Mac 

What

What?

He defines life differently than you. He can't disregard the value of certain life if he doesn't even acknowledge it to be living in the first place.

I accept the fact that the Mass Effect fiction basically wants us to consider synthetic beings as truly alive, but it has also been established that they are fundamentally different in more than just physiological ways. Applying organic morals to synthetics is racist according to Legion. So this whole self-righteous angle that you've been playing for the past 2 pages isn't all that convincing.

With that said, the loss of synthetic life is still a heavy consequence but I don't think my Shepard's decision making process is driven by racial prejudice towards them.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 18 août 2013 - 06:35 .