47 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

When The Illusive Man dies, or at least if convinced to kill himself, an interesting scene unfolds.  When he kills himself the Reaper implants in his head "power down"  their lights go off. 

However his eyes do not.   His eyes' unusual color came from his exposure to a Reaper artifact "the Arca-monolith" they gave him several abilities, and many people believe that his indoctrination started here (that is not how indoctrination works, but that is for a different thread)

So I'm wondering what do you make of this?  The Reaper tech elsewhere on him deactivates/shuts off, but his eyes stay their color.

http://www.youtube.c...VnfaQ4#t=5m40s.

Thoughts?

[Xamufam]

Bioware forgot them?

[Steelcan]

Troxa wrote...

Bioware forgot them?

In the climactic death scene for two important characters, they left outsomething like that?

[HellbirdIV]

Steelcan wrote...

In the climactic death scene for two important characters, they left outsomething like that?

Given that Saren's eyes do go out in his death scene, and he was touched by the Arca-Monolith in the same way as TIM... And considering the otherwise "stellar" quality control of Mass Effect 3?

Yes. They most likely did.

[Ravensword]

Steelcan wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Bioware forgot them?

In the climactic death scene for two important characters, they left outsomething like that?

Much was forgotten.

[rohanks]

Interesting. You know, I never spotted this the first time round.

I always made the assumption that TIM's eyes were artificial implants. To enhance his capability to process and consume or perhaps directly interface with large collections of data.

I am trying to think back to ME1. Did the same phenomenon happen to Saren after he killed himself (if you talked him down) or before his transformation into 'uber-predator'?

Other than still being powered by the latent discharge of electro-chemical energy in his body, or for the theory advanced above, I don't know why his eyes would maintain their colour.

[Steelcan]

Developer laziness, while most probable, is not an actual reason for explaining on screen events. We have to take what we are given and run from there.

[Jorji Costava]

In response to the OP's question, the light remaining in TIM's eyes is probably supposed to suggest that some spark of his humanity was still present even in his final moments, the eyes being the 'window into the soul' and all of that.

Lore-wise, I have no idea what could explain it, and I doubt the writers do either. The entirety of "Citadel: The Return" trades largely in symbolic gestures with little effort to explain what they mean from an in-universe perspective. Why does Shepard jump into the beam of light in Synthesis? Because jumping into a beam of light is familiar "heroic sacrifice"imagery, and the Synthesis ending is clearly playing the "Shepard as Space Jesus angle." I'm pretty sure the TIM sequence is more of the same.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

<3333333333 OP. You have vindicated ole H.

I've said this, time and again: TIM's *brief* exposure to the Arca Monolith and effects on eyes =/= Indoctrination.

Not the least bit surprising to me that people want to chalk this scene up to oversight to protect the idea of TIM indoctrinated since ME:E, but I know I sure as hell am not buying that they'd expressly display an animation of TIM's implants powering down yet forgetting his most distinguishing feature "needed" to do the same.

Awesome.

[Steelcan]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

<3333333333 OP. You have vindicated ole H.

I've said this, time and again: TIM's *brief* exposure to the Arca Monolith and effects on eyes =/= Indoctrination.

Not the least bit surprising to me that people want to chalk this scene up to oversight to protect the idea of TIM indoctrinated since ME:E, but I know I sure as hell am not buying that they'd expressly display an animation of TIM's implants powering down yet forgetting his most distinguishing feature "needed" to do the same.

Awesome.

 Indoctrination takes a while to work or the subject is a droolig moron

[jtav]

"A while" as in weeks, not thirty years. But I still say TIM only began slipping into indoctrination after them and was most of the way there by Mars.

[o Ventus]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

<3333333333 OP. You have vindicated ole H.

I've said this, time and again: TIM's *brief* exposure to the Arca Monolith and effects on eyes =/= Indoctrination.

Not the least bit surprising to me that people want to chalk this scene up to oversight to protect the idea of TIM indoctrinated since ME:E, but I know I sure as hell am not buying that they'd expressly display an animation of TIM's implants powering down yet forgetting his most distinguishing feature "needed" to do the same.

Awesome.

Even though there is direct evidence that supports indoctrination since the Evo comic (rather, the seeds of indoctrination being planet).

[teh DRUMPf!!]

o Ventus wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

<3333333333 OP. You have vindicated ole H.

I've said this, time and again: TIM's *brief* exposure to the Arca Monolith and effects on eyes =/= Indoctrination.

Not the least bit surprising to me that people want to chalk this scene up to oversight to protect the idea of TIM indoctrinated since ME:E, but I know I sure as hell am not buying that they'd expressly display an animation of TIM's implants powering down yet forgetting his most distinguishing feature "needed" to do the same.

Awesome.

Even though there is direct evidence that supports indoctrination since the Evo comic (rather, the seeds of indoctrination being planet).

When indoctrination is being treated like "seeds," that's when you know you have a problem.

Getting zapped by an artifact does not make you indoctrinated. Otherwise, Arrival DLC would have indoctrinated Shepard. Reaper devices only indoctrinate if you're exposed to them for a sustained period of time, hence the "days to weeks" needed to settle in. If you're around one temporarily but remove yourself before it sets in, you don't get indoctrinated. It's not a process where one encounter leaves seeds in your mind that grow to full-indoctrination. Again, Arrival proves that wrong.

So, no. I don't know what "direct evidence" supports that notion but I know it's wrong, because that's not how the process of indoctrination works. Then again, this is the Mass Effect fandom, where the answer to everything is "indoctrination."

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 17 août 2013 - 04:50 .

[MegaSovereign]

Honestly...I'm kind of surprised Shepard wasn't indoctrinated after being zapped by Object Rho. What the hell was the point of that scene anyway?

[shodiswe]

No point worrying about minor issues or coffe stains.

[The Twilight God]

Steelcan wrote...

When The Illusive Man dies, or at least if convinced to kill himself, an interesting scene unfolds.  When he kills himself the Reaper implants in his head "power down"  their lights go off. 

However his eyes do not.   His eyes' unusual color came from his exposure to a Reaper artifact "the Arca-monolith" they gave him several abilities, and many people believe that his indoctrination started here (that is not how indoctrination works, but that is for a different thread)

So I'm wondering what do you make of this?  The Reaper tech elsewhere on him deactivates/shuts off, but his eyes stay their color.

http://www.youtube.c...VnfaQ4#t=5m40s.

Thoughts?

The eye coloration is a part of the model. Think of it as, they aren't glowing, but rather, they are "painted" on. The reaperized face alterations are a separate graphical asset separate from the base TIM model which was designed to be able to have adjustable glow levels.

[Dieb]

The Twilight God wrote...
The eye coloration is a part of the model. Think of it as, they aren't glowing, but rather, they are "painted" on. The reaperized face alterations are a separate graphical asset separate from the base TIM model which was designed to be able to have adjustable glow levels.

Technically, exactly this.

It's sad that they left it like that, admittedly leaving room for too much speculation, but you know what freaks me out even more? When Thane died, his eyelids still blink. All four of them.

I'm usually not the most vocal to call BioWare out on their laziness, but here I'm calling BioWare out on their laziness.

[Massa FX]

StreetMagic wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Honestly...I'm kind of surprised Shepard wasn't indoctrinated after being zapped by Object Rho. What the hell was the point of that scene anyway?

"Struggle if you wish. Your mind will be mine."

This was pointed out over a year ago by several posters... The multi-day exposure to a Reaper artifact  had no apparent affect on Shepard. (except for a few headaches) Which makes NO sense. But... whatever. I just play. It's better to not "think" too much while playing.

I guess the Codex and personal logs found in the game referencing Indoctrination only applies to non-Shepard organics. Shep is immune to indoctrination unless its convenient to key areas of the story! Yeah! That's Awesome!

[MegaSovereign]

Massa FX wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Honestly...I'm kind of surprised Shepard wasn't indoctrinated after being zapped by Object Rho. What the hell was the point of that scene anyway?

"Struggle if you wish. Your mind will be mine."

This was pointed out over a year ago by several posters... The multi-day exposure to a Reaper artifact  had no apparent affect on Shepard. (except for a few headaches) Which makes NO sense. But... whatever. I just play. It's better to not "think" too much while playing.

I guess the Codex and personal logs found in the game referencing Indoctrination only applies to non-Shepard organics. Shep is immune to indoctrination unless its convenient to key areas of the story! Yeah! That's Awesome!

Yes, it's ridiculous. So much so that I've considered skipping Arrival. Unfortunately, doing so manages to make the premise of ME3's intro more stupid.

EDIT:

Don't want to give the wrong impression. I actually did like the Arrival DLC because I was fond of the Indoctrination element. I'm just upset that Bioware didn't build on what was supposed to be "the bridge" to ME3.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 17 août 2013 - 04:03 .

[Xilizhra]

Shepard isn't exposed to Object Rho for long periods of time; the med bay on the asteroid was out of range of the indoctrination field.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Honestly...I'm kind of surprised Shepard wasn't indoctrinated after being zapped by Object Rho. What the hell was the point of that scene anyway?

To prove IT.

[MegaSovereign]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't exposed to Object Rho for long periods of time; the med bay on the asteroid was out of range of the indoctrination field.

The range is not defined. Every soldier and scientist on that station was indoctrinated.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't exposed to Object Rho for long periods of time; the med bay on the asteroid was out of range of the indoctrination field.

Well that doesn't sound like you're completely making it up...

@Steelcan:

Who cares! It's artistic vision!

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 août 2013 - 04:36 .

[Xilizhra]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't exposed to Object Rho for long periods of time; the med bay on the asteroid was out of range of the indoctrination field.

The range is not defined. Every soldier and scientist on that station was indoctrinated.

Three possibilities:

1. Everyone was eventually brought to see Object Rho personally.
2. The indoctrination is based more on time, and Shepard wasn't there long enough.
3. Shepard's upgrades make her completely immune to indoctrination, somehow.