47 réponses à ce sujet

[NeonFlux117]

TIM's eyes came from the Arca Monolith. This is confirmed via the comic book Mass Effect Evolution. Simple.

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 17 août 2013 - 05:14 .

[HellbirdIV]

Shepard has easily spent sufficient time around actively indoctrinating Reapers that she should be influenced by them somehow.

Given that Shiala and Saren remained indoctrinated (Shiala's is overridden by the Thorian, though) the Prothean Cipher can't be responsible.

I call Protagonist Plot Shield Shenanigans.

[NeonFlux117]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Shepard has easily spent sufficient time around actively indoctrinating Reapers that she should be influenced by them somehow.

Given that Shiala and Saren remained indoctrinated (Shiala's is overridden by the Thorian, though) the Prothean Cipher can't be responsible.

I call Protagonist Plot Shield Shenanigans.

ha, logic be gone logic thinker. But, who said the reapers are doing the indoctrinating???

[GreyLycanTrope]

Xilizhra wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't exposed to Object Rho for long periods of time; the med bay on the asteroid was out of range of the indoctrination field.

The range is not defined. Every soldier and scientist on that station was indoctrinated.

Three possibilities:

1. Everyone was eventually brought to see Object Rho personally.
2. The indoctrination is based more on time, and Shepard wasn't there long enough.
3. Shepard's upgrades make her completely immune to indoctrination, somehow.

4. Indoctrination is played with when convinient for the plot but ignored otherwise.

[Xilizhra]

But that explanation is worthless from an in-universe perspective.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Xilizhra wrote...
But that explanation is worthless from an in-universe perspective.

Sometimes going by a stricly in-universe perspective will only lead to a headache, way too many inconsistancies.
Here's what I mean:
1. We know from a few of the voice recordings that people stationed there were having indoctrination induced dreams without need to make contact with the Object, while Dr. Kensen was already indoctrinated likely thanks to her closer proximity to the object while studying it.
2. Shep gets hit hard enough by the object Rho to pass out, is in very close proximity while the device is active and remains on base for two days afterwards.
3.Shepard upgrade were Cerbrus tech, yet later all of Cerberus gets indoctrinated.

[Xilizhra]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
But that explanation is worthless from an in-universe perspective.

Sometimes going by a stricly in-universe perspective will only lead to a headache, way too many inconsistancies.
Here's what I mean:
1. We know from a few of the voice recordings that people stationed there were having indoctrination induced dreams without need to make contact with the Object, while Dr. Kensen was already indoctrinated likely thanks to her closer proximity to the object while studying it.
2. Shep gets hit hard enough by the object Rho to pass out, is in very close proximity while the device is active and remains on base for two days afterwards.
3.Shepard upgrade were Cerbrus tech, yet later all of Cerberus gets indoctrinated.

The Cerberus implants in other soldiers were specifically designed to produce indoctrination in their hosts, but Shepard's didn't have that purpose. She's already become resistant to otherwise lethal poisons, for instance. Because indoctrination is a physiological effect, and Cerberus seems to have known about it, it's possible that Shepard's brain was reconstructed to be more resistant to indoctrination.

[GreyLycanTrope]

The implants were intended to make the loyal to Cerberus not the Reaper, if you're implanting people and have something to keep them from getting taken over by on outside force it'd be a good idea to use it. I remember Shep being resistant to sedatives not poison which could be a result of the implants filtering her system, but indoctrination effects the brain and as we've learned from EDI, Shep has no implants in her brain, her mind is fully organic.

Indoctrination is not psychological it's a physical/chemical, Grayson was manipulated because the Reaper implants released hormones into his brain making him more susceptible to Reaper influence, it changes and alters the brain which is why a prolonged side effect is mental degradation, being a brain dead husk like the Salarain STG team is not a psychological condition.

[Xilizhra]

The implants were intended to make the loyal to Cerberus not the Reaper, if you're implanting people and have something to keep them from getting taken over by on outside force it'd be a good idea to use it. I remember Shep being resistant to sedatives not poison which could be a result of the implants filtering her system, but indoctrination effects the brain and as we've learned from EDI, Shep has no implants in her brain, her mind is fully organic.

Shepard is resistant to the sedatives, yes. She's also resistant to the poison used by that one batarian bartender on Omega.

Indoctrination is not psychological it's a physical/chemical, Grayson was manipulated because the Reaper implants released hormones into his brain making him more susceptible to Reaper influence, it changes and alters the brain which is why a prolonged side effect is mental degradation, being a brain dead husk like the Salarain STG team is not a psychological condition.

Yes, that's just what I said. Physiological.

[MegaSovereign]

If it's physical/chemical, a plausible headcanon is that Shepard's cybernetic enhancements seem to help maintain hormone homeostasis.

[GreyLycanTrope]

My mistake I misread that part as psychological. Still Shep's brain wasn't reconstructed with implants, it's fully organic, she's still as susceptible as anyone is.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 17 août 2013 - 07:32 .

[Xilizhra]

Greylycantrope wrote...

My mistake I misread that part as psychological. Still Shep's brain wasn't reconstructed with implants, it's fully organics, she's still as susceptible as anyone is.

Then it's one of the other two explanations. However, if you can think of a better in-universe one, I'm all for it.

Of course, it might not be the brain that was enhanced. Possibly the ear canal has something in it that filters out some of the subsonics that produce indoctrination. Or perhaps it's something like what MegaSovereign said.

[Excella Gionne]

Don't people mod their Renegade Shepards on the PC with the Illusive Man's eyes, but with their choice of eye color?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Honestly...I'm kind of surprised Shepard wasn't indoctrinated after being zapped by Object Rho. What the hell was the point of that scene anyway?

"Struggle if you wish. Your mind will be mine."

This was pointed out over a year ago by several posters... The multi-day exposure to a Reaper artifact  had no apparent affect on Shepard. (except for a few headaches) Which makes NO sense. But... whatever. I just play. It's better to not "think" too much while playing.

I guess the Codex and personal logs found in the game referencing Indoctrination only applies to non-Shepard organics. Shep is immune to indoctrination unless its convenient to key areas of the story! Yeah! That's Awesome!

Yes, it's ridiculous.

No it isn't.

The timeframe required for indoctrination to set in is days-to-weeks.

Shepard getting zapped for a second doesn't make him indoctrinated, because it's never been an instant process (nor does it "plant seeds" in your head that grow). After that, he spent two days vulnerable to its influence, which does raise some legitimate concern, but it's entirely possible two days simply wasn't enough time for it to work on Shepard. I'm not sure why that would surprise anyone. Liara says of Shepard in ME1 what a strong mind he/she has (ala Prothean vision burned into memory).

It's not enough to say: "Well, he was exposed to a Reaper artifact," while neglecting the prerequisite time/mechanics.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...

If it's physical/chemical, a plausible headcanon is that Shepard's cybernetic enhancements seem to help maintain hormone homeostasis.

Bit too easy, greatest brainwashing technique in galaxy and it's solved by hormone regulation? Really should have mass produced those implants in those six months. Besides it's never made clear if the process is limited to hormones, the book describes it as one of many techniques used.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 17 août 2013 - 07:43 .

[Xamufam]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

shep was directly exposed to object rho for 2 days
There is reaper tech inside normandy edi mentions it after Joker release here in ME2
Shepard getting zapped turn him into a reciever (electromagnetic fields) (quantum entanglement)

resisting indoctrination, as anderson interrupts you hear a growl & the kid is gone. when you hear the growl it's shepard trying to resist indoctrination (mass effect third novel) check
See things that are not there. check   Hazard symbol  Hazard symbol 2 
Dreams take place in the limbic system.
The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its Suggestions. check
Whisper you can't understand. check Whispers, oily shadows Rana in me 1 explains this
Oily shadows. check (rachni experienced this, before the retcon)
Reaper noises. check Reaper noises
shiala talks about dreams in me 2

Ayo, remember what happens on when you go to get
the reaper's identification code to pass the omega 4 relay (during ME2) ?
Cerberus engineers say "the walls are shifting" and say they're victims
of indoctrination.

AND NOW, WHAT THE **** HAPPENS DURING THE LAST SEQUENCE?!
We got it.
www.youtube.com/watch


http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=21m59s
http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=37m6s

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Indoctrination
codex
It is believed that the Reapers generate an electromagnetic field, waves
of infrasound and ultrasound, or both in order to stimulate areas of a
victim's brain and limbic system. The resulting effect varies depending
on the intent of the Reaper: the victim may suffer headaches and
hallucinations, have feelings of "being watched" or paranoia, or come to
view the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Ultimately, the Reaper
gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signal,
manifesting as voices within the victim's mind.



It's indoctrination remains
They were going with shepards indoctrination & at the last minute they rewrote it (because of the leak)
Finalhourapp stated that shepard would be under reaper control & illusive man would turn into a reaper


www.newsarama.com/8093-lead-writer-mac-walters-delivers-mass-effect-3-game-comic.html

Nrama: Of course it looks like the Illusive Man "got burned"
during the First Contact War (as seen in Mass Effect: Evolution) and
maybe doesn't even realize it yet.

Walters: Yeah but even that is
kind of open as to exactly what happened there. Obviously, Mass Effect 3
will reveal all; that's the point of Mass Effect 3, we tie up a lot of
those loose ends. But I think it's safe to say The Illusive Man is still
very much "himself" throughout the course of what people have been
playing. We wouldn't ever want you to feel like "oh this guy I worked
for was really an enemy all along." But that doesn't mean there weren't
influences in his life.

http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=21m59s
http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=37m6s

From thefinalhourapp
On Deciding the End of the Game:
The illusive man boss
fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night
Walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end
with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the
page.'

In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up
until the end of 2011. Martin Sheen's voice-over session for the
illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until
mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

And
even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an
endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's
movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped
because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement
alongside dialogue choices).


removed parts from leaked script
As they enter the control room they can
see the controls for the Citadel Arms, but before they can reach them
both Shepard and Anderson begin to feel the effects similiar to those
Shepard felt at MIRANDA'S MISSION.        Before they can realize what's happening,
Anderson and Shepard find themselves with their guns drawn and aimed at
one another.


  The platform Shepard was on begins to rise up into GUARDIAN's garden where he is faced with his final decision.

Opening Cinematic: Shepard is in a snowy, creepy version of the park where he first saw the child playing. This establishes Shepard in a dream, and shows the child again. Many voices call out to Shepard. These are voices of people who’ve died, but you can’t really tell who is speaking.

Modifié par Troxa, 09 octobre 2013 - 11:11 .

[MegaSovereign]

Greylycantrope wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

If it's physical/chemical, a plausible headcanon is that Shepard's cybernetic enhancements seem to help maintain hormone homeostasis.

Bit too easy, greatest brainwashing technique in galaxy and it's solved by hormone regulation? Really should have mass produced those implants in those six months. Besides it's never made clear if the process is limited to hormones, the book describes it as one of many techniques used.

Well it's just headcanon. We've seemed to have put more effort into it than Bioware has.

Hormone regulation would probably do next to nothing against huskification, so mass producing them would only slow the Reapers down. I make it sound simple but I'm no biologist/doctor. Shepard was rebuilt with state of the art cybernetics so I'm sure it wouldn't be easy to make a commercial indoctrination pill...

[Excella Gionne]

Wow, now I believe in that Indoctrination Theory. Thanks for the video link @Troxa

[MegaSovereign]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Honestly...I'm kind of surprised Shepard wasn't indoctrinated after being zapped by Object Rho. What the hell was the point of that scene anyway?

"Struggle if you wish. Your mind will be mine."

This was pointed out over a year ago by several posters... The multi-day exposure to a Reaper artifact  had no apparent affect on Shepard. (except for a few headaches) Which makes NO sense. But... whatever. I just play. It's better to not "think" too much while playing.

I guess the Codex and personal logs found in the game referencing Indoctrination only applies to non-Shepard organics. Shep is immune to indoctrination unless its convenient to key areas of the story! Yeah! That's Awesome!

Yes, it's ridiculous.

No it isn't.

The timeframe required for indoctrination to set in is days-to-weeks.

Shepard getting zapped for a second doesn't make him indoctrinated, because it's never been an instant process (nor does it "plant seeds" in your head that grow). After that, he spent two days vulnerable to its influence, which does raise some legitimate concern, but it's entirely possible two days simply wasn't enough time for it to work on Shepard. I'm not sure why that would surprise anyone. Liara says of Shepard in ME1 what a strong mind he/she has (ala Prothean vision burned into memory).

It's not enough to say: "Well, he was exposed to a Reaper artifact," while neglecting the prerequisite time/mechanics.

It's plausible that Shepard did not become indoctrinated on that asteriod but the whole Object Rho and Harbinger taunting bit about wanting Shepard's mind seems pointless if it doesn't actually lead to anything.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

*disregard*

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 17 août 2013 - 09:54 .

[Steelcan]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

TIM's eyes came from the Arca Monolith. This is confirmed via the comic book Mass Effect Evolution. Simple.

Thye exposure there is too brief to indoctrinate.  Indoctrination takes a while for high functioning assets.

Furthermore, not the point.

[CynicalShep]

Xilizhra wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard isn't exposed to Object Rho for long periods of time; the med bay on the asteroid was out of range of the indoctrination field.

The range is not defined. Every soldier and scientist on that station was indoctrinated.

Three possibilities:

1. Everyone was eventually brought to see Object Rho personally.
2. The indoctrination is based more on time, and Shepard wasn't there long enough.
3. Shepard's upgrades make her completely immune to indoctrination, somehow.

Or 4: Shepard is too bad@ss to be indoctrinated 

[DirtySHISN0]

I would say its an oversight - they thought it would look cool. Husks don't loose their lights when they get killed.