1007 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

In the mass effect triligoy, one of the major things we've barely been able to do is play shepard a certain way and have the stroy react accordingly. Mainly, we are not allowed to play our shepard as "too nice", and have that quality come back to bite him or her in the ass later on. If you play as a full renegade, there are a massive amount of things come back to bite you in the ass, such as squadmates no longer being alive, missions being harder, having fewer resources. But there's not really anything like that in the mass effect series if you played overl paragon. I can think of 1 time it happened, and that was when you let the asari sociopath go on illium, and everything else is barely even worth mentioning. Even the rachni queen turning on you can only happen if you were renegade back in mass effect 1, and nothing goes wrong if you played paragon.

As a paragon player, I hope in the future there will be more consequences for being a hero and trying to save everyone. I'm not saying anything crazy like paragons should lose the game and renegades should win, that would be just trolling a lot of people. Or that all good or paragon choices have some weird ass string of double edged swords attached to them like kotor 2 did. In fact getting ride of the whole morality system might be better in the long run and have everything needed for persuasion checks be done with a reputation system.

What I am asking for is more consequences in playing a hero, and the ability to play a hero who streched himself too far and ended up screwing up in doing so, or for us to be betrayed for showing mercy at least once in the games.

[Astartes Marine]

You're asking the wrong dev I think. Bioware games have always seemed like light/paragon = good while dark/renegade = bad.

To be fair though the ME games there were a fair amount of renegade sequences that were not inherently bad, just more Dirty Harry styled.


Like in KotOR their was light=good and dark=bad where the Obsidian developed KotOR II had grey areas added and even then light "does not always equal" good as Kreia shows you when you give money to a beggar and moments later that same beggar is assaulted and possibly killed for said money. That was a good system as you had to think about your actions more than just "is this a light/dark option" and intstead "is this just the right thing for me to be doing".

I do like that kind of system more and I would certainly like to see BioWare implement more grey areas into the morality system, less black and white.

[AlexMBrennan]

missions being harder

When did that happen?

[Sir DeLoria]

"I'm going to extinct the Quarian, Krogan, Drell, Hanar, Elcor and Batarian races in ME3."

No consequences whatsoever.

[Cainhurst Crow]

EntropicAngel wrote...

So Rana Thanoptis did NOT, in fact, turn out to be indoctrinated? And Balak did NOT, in fact, end up hurting other people? And my decision to let the Rachni go did NOT result in them being turned again by the Reapers?


I hate this topic. Sorry Darth, not blaming you, but it's old, old, old.

Yes, No, and No.

Rana Thanoptis entire impact not only happens off screen, but has to be found out only through reading your email. Harldy any impact there.

Balak, thanks to bad programming, doesn't go out and kill people if you let him go or let him live in the game, because it lumps his actions and the actions of his replacement character should he die, in the same scenarios. Basically balak killing people is only achievable if you didn't play bringing down the skies, in which case he introduces himself as "Captian Ka'hairal Balak, external forces.". And more to the point, all his kills are, again, off screen and don't seem to have any impact on shepard at in the least.

And the rachni queen I covered. She doesn't turn on you if you let her go in mass effect 1. She gets capturend, but saving her and bringing her to the crucible results in her working just fine with everyone else. And it's not like she doesn't show up with the renegade choice picked in mass effect 1, the difference being the cloned queen will turn on you if you decide to paragon her, but that's more negated since to have that scenario you neeeded to be renegae int he first place.

I understand your point though, and there are no hard feelings had.

[KaiserShep]

Necanor wrote...

"I'm going to extinct the Quarian, Krogan, Drell, Hanar, Elcor and Batarian races in ME3."

No consequences whatsoever.

The only race that can suffer from a "paragon" choice is the Quarians, and even that can be avoided.

[CronoDragoon]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
 In fact getting ride of the whole morality system might be better in the long run and have everything needed for persuasion checks be done with a reputation system. 

Personally I hope this is the answer, at least as far as visible morality systems go, and especially binary ones.

[Sir DeLoria]

KaiserShep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

"I'm going to extinct the Quarian, Krogan, Drell, Hanar, Elcor and Batarian races in ME3."

No consequences whatsoever.

The only race that can suffer from a "paragon" choice is the Quarians, and even that can be avoided.

If you decide to rescue your Spectre buddy, two races are doomed. If you forget to help the Elcor, they're doomed. 

[KaiserShep]

Saving Bau requires a renegade interrupt, though of course if you fulfilled every mission and made the right decisions for ME2, this is irrelevant since Kasumi allows you to do both. Forgetting to complete a mission doesn't count either.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 16 août 2013 - 06:24 .

[Sir DeLoria]

KaiserShep wrote...

Saving Bau requires a renegade interrupt, though of course if you fulfilled every mission and made the right decisions for ME2, this is irrelevant since Kasumi allows you to do both. Forgetting to complete a mission doesn't count either.

If you have done everything right in ME2, Rannoch is irrelevant too, because both can be saved. 

Btw, I'm pretty sure destroying the Geth isn't a Renegade decision. Both annihilate options don't gain you any points.

[CronoDragoon]

I believe we are speaking of Paragon playthroughs where you don't screw up anything. IE, get characters killed in the Suicide Mission or skip quests.

[David7204]

If heroism is meaningful, then 'good' choices logically need to lead to the best outcome.

[Seboist]

Playing Paragon does come to bite you in the ass sometimes! LIke how you get 10 less war asset points if you destroyed the collector base!

[CronoDragoon]

David7204 wrote...

If heroism is meaningful, then 'good' choices logically need to lead to the best outcome.

That Paragon choices are considered the "good" choices demonstrates the failure of the morality system.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

If heroism is meaningful, then 'good' choices logically need to lead to the best outcome.

Not really

[David7204]

Yes, really.

[Seboist]

CronoDragoon wrote...

David7204 wrote...

If heroism is meaningful, then 'good' choices logically need to lead to the best outcome.

That Paragon choices are considered the "good" choices demonstrates the failure of the morality system.

I'd say there not being a lick of tangible difference between the two demonstrates the failure of it.

Even the likes of Saints Row handles a Collector Base type decision better than ME3.

[David7204]

Okay? And? I'm sure there are plenty of works of fiction that have themes that heroism is stupid and silly and futile. By all means, go and enjoy some of them.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Yes, really.

Um no, Not every 'Good' choice should have the best outcome

The term good is subjective anyway. Thinking Paragon automatically = Good is being naive 

[KaiserShep]

The tone set by Mass Effect since the very beginning has a rather simplistic view on morality anyway, so I don't really malign it for rewarding paragon actions more than renegade. If we were talking about something like Game of Thrones in space, then it would be a different matter entirely. That said, it would be interesting to actually see something appreciable with regards to either side of the morality spectrum which yeilds greater reward for certain renegade actions. We do have small instances like telling Kelly to change her identity instead of help the refugees, or leaving Javik alone about looking into the echo shard, though I can't remember if the latter counts as renegade.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 16 août 2013 - 06:52 .