Xilizhra wrote...
One dog might die, but you don't slaughter every last one in existence. Hell, rabies can be cured in several cases, and that's even more important when the infected is sapient.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
I've never once heard someone say "bigotry against synthetic life IRL is wrong so I only do it in video games," whereas I've heard that said for your example many times.
Forgive me if I don't take you at your word on matters of science, given your history of evolution denial.
This is my dealing with it. Since it's an issue currently only applicable to the Internet, that's the extent of my response. If it becomes significant IRL, that might take more.Necanor wrote...
Woah, hold your horses, oh brave crusader of the poor synthetics!Xilizhra wrote...
There are things I'll equivocate on and debate the moral philosophy of on an equal basis, such as the Balak/Fist choices. This is not one of them. I'll be damned before I give an inch to anyone who claims that some people are more equal than others.Necanor wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
It's utterly, needlessly evil, as any unnecessary destruction of sapient beings is.The geth never get upgraded in my playthroughs, so I honestly wouldn't know about that, nor do I care.
Destroying the geth before they reach personhood from that upgrade isn't evil, it's pragmatic.
Who are you to judge? I really dislike the way you see your moral and philosophical views as the norm. You have an opinion and others have theirs, you seem to have a hard time accepting that even you're not always right.
Your debating from the wrong standpoint, it's not about equality between people. The Geth aren't people, simple. Some people think they're people, others don't deal with it.
Oh, but I don't kill sapient beings, the Geth are merely sentient when they get blown to bits. Also, you forget that the Geth are a consensus mind, so it wasn't one dog with rabies, but nearly every dog had rabies, if you want to use that metaphor.Xilizhra wrote...
One dog might die, but you don't slaughter every last one in existence. Hell, rabies can be cured in several cases, and that's even more important when the infected is sapient.Necanor wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
They are the galaxy, scum. A part of it, at any rate.This is pretty much my exact opinion about AIs. The Geth are rogue
machines that need to be put down for the safety of the galaxy.
Just like a rabid dog is a part of nature. The Geth are dangerous, they feel neither pity nor remorse, we already saw what they did to the Quarians and other organics.
Which is idiocy, because they weren't rabid; they just didn't have a wide enough base of experience and knowledge to understand that not all quarians were dangerous.Necanor wrote...
Oh, but I don't kill sapient beings, the Geth are merely sentient when they get blown to bits. Also, you forget that the Geth are a consensus mind, so it wasn't one dog with rabies, but nearly every dog had rabies, if you want to use that metaphor.Xilizhra wrote...
One dog might die, but you don't slaughter every last one in existence. Hell, rabies can be cured in several cases, and that's even more important when the infected is sapient.Necanor wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
They are the galaxy, scum. A part of it, at any rate.This is pretty much my exact opinion about AIs. The Geth are rogue
machines that need to be put down for the safety of the galaxy.
Just like a rabid dog is a part of nature. The Geth are dangerous, they feel neither pity nor remorse, we already saw what they did to the Quarians and other organics.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Not at all certain. Giving Cerberus the collector base is a gamble, but it's a gamble we MUST take. Not giving them the collector base is pretty much dooming the galaxy for certain.
I don't mind extremes if they're logically explained. BioWare should have explained why we couldn't give the base to the Alliance. Maybe there was a good reason for it, but the game didn't present that reason to us.
Why would you give the base to the council or the Alliance though and not to Cerberus? You claim Cerberus f*cks up everything but as I recall I had to clean up the Alliance's mess countless of times in ME1. The Allaince f*ck up equally often as Cerberus does. Same goes for the Council.
Xilizhra wrote...
This is my dealing with it. Since it's an issue currently only applicable to the Internet, that's the extent of my response. If it becomes significant IRL, that might take more.
EntropicAngel wrote...
When did the Alliance mess up, or the Council?
Xilizhra wrote...
This is my dealing with it. Since it's an issue currently only applicable to the Internet, that's the extent of my response. If it becomes significant IRL, that might take more.
For now? Not hugely, which is why this is all I've been doing. It's the future I'm worried about.Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
This is my dealing with it. Since it's an issue currently only applicable to the Internet, that's the extent of my response. If it becomes significant IRL, that might take more.
You believe the geth are sapient and have personhood, many of us don't believe that, for good reasons.
OH NOES, SOMEONE HAS DIFFERENT BELIEVES ABOUT A FICTIONAL UNIVERSE THAN I DO! OMG THAT'S SUCH AN ISSUE! RIGHT!?!?!?
Yeah no, it really isn't.
Xilizhra wrote...
Which is idiocy, because they weren't rabid; they just didn't have a wide enough base of experience and knowledge to understand that not all quarians were dangerous.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Pretty much all the N7 missions in ME1 where the Alliance crawls to Shepard telling us "oh noes we messed up can you fix it for us? :("
Xilizhra wrote...
Which is idiocy, because they weren't rabid; they just didn't have a wide enough base of experience and knowledge to understand that not all quarians were dangerous.
It would seem the quarians gave them the wrong idea about how war is waged. Remember that they were a race in its infancy.Necanor wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Which is idiocy, because they weren't rabid; they just didn't have a wide enough base of experience and knowledge to understand that not all quarians were dangerous.
"This unit has not participated in the fighting, why is it punished?"
I think the Geth knew what kind of atrocities they were committing.
Actually, Legion seems to possess both. The geth have the capacity, they just don't really understand how they work, and it's a, well, an organic development.This is exactly why the geth are dangerous. They lack morality and
emotions. Without a moral compass and without emotions, the geth are
unpredictable and are capable of making drastic decisions that are both
highly immoral and very dangerous (dangerous for us organics that is).
Modifié par Xilizhra, 19 août 2013 - 07:57 .
Stalin was beaten by his father and he gave him the wrong idea about morals. Poor guy, he's completely innocent and come on, he just killed 20 million people:happy:Xilizhra wrote...
It would seem the quarians gave them the wrong idea about how war is waged. Remember that they were a race in its infancy.Necanor wrote...
"This unit has not participated in the fighting, why is it punished?"Xilizhra wrote...
Which is idiocy, because they weren't rabid; they just didn't have a wide enough base of experience and knowledge to understand that not all quarians were dangerous.
I think the Geth knew what kind of atrocities they were committing.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Xilizhra wrote...
Actually, Legion seems to possess both. The geth have the capacity, they just don't really understand how they work, and it's a, well, an organic development.This is exactly why the geth are dangerous. They lack morality and
emotions. Without a moral compass and without emotions, the geth are
unpredictable and are capable of making drastic decisions that are both
highly immoral and very dangerous (dangerous for us organics that is).
Recall that the geth had absolutely no basis for comparison with, well, anyone else, as all other beings in their vicinity were trying to annihilate them.Necanor wrote...
Stalin was beaten by his father and he gave him the wrong idea about morals. Poor guy, he's completely innocent and come on, he just killed 20 million people:happy:Xilizhra wrote...
It would seem the quarians gave them the wrong idea about how war is waged. Remember that they were a race in its infancy.Necanor wrote...
"This unit has not participated in the fighting, why is it punished?"Xilizhra wrote...
Which is idiocy, because they weren't rabid; they just didn't have a wide enough base of experience and knowledge to understand that not all quarians were dangerous.
I think the Geth knew what kind of atrocities they were committing.
Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Not at all certain. Giving Cerberus the collector base is a gamble, but it's a gamble we MUST take. Not giving them the collector base is pretty much dooming the galaxy for certain.EntropicAngel wrote...
The chances that they will fail are darn near certain.I don't mind extremes if they're logically explained. BioWare should have explained why we couldn't give the base to the Alliance. Maybe there was a good reason for it, but the game didn't present that reason to us.EntropicAngel wrote...
And for the choice itself, it has the problem of presenting two extremes but no middle ground (something that bioware does a lot). We should have been able to keep it ourselves, or give it to the Alliance, or perhaps the Council. One of those.
Why would you give the base to the council or the Alliance though and not to Cerberus? You claim Cerberus f*cks up everything but as I recall I had to clean up the Alliance's mess countless of times in ME1. The Allaince f*ck up equally often as Cerberus does. Same goes for the Council.
Xilizhra wrote...
Actually, Legion seems to possess both. The geth have the capacity, they just don't really understand how they work, and it's a, well, an organic development.
Except for the Quarians that tried to help them. Lulz, poor Geth still killed them:happy:Xilizhra wrote...
Recall that the geth had absolutely no basis for comparison with, well, anyone else, as all other beings in their vicinity were trying to annihilate them.Necanor wrote...
Stalin was beaten by his father and he gave him the wrong idea about morals. Poor guy, he's completely innocent and come on, he just killed 20 million people:happy:Xilizhra wrote...
It would seem the quarians gave them the wrong idea about how war is waged. Remember that they were a race in its infancy.Necanor wrote...
"This unit has not participated in the fighting, why is it punished?"
I think the Geth knew what kind of atrocities they were committing.
Context developed over millions of years. The geth have three hundred and were born in a war for survival. In any case, I suspect Legion would have made a decision had it not been under Shepard's command... and nothing is special about Legion's programs apart from absorbing information about how galactic society works (and hence developing context rather faster than our own ancestors did).Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Actually, Legion seems to possess both. The geth have the capacity, they just don't really understand how they work, and it's a, well, an organic development.
Legion is a special case. He's not like the other geth.
And even with Legion it's debatable whether he really posesses morality and/or emotions. Legion is still a slave of his own programming, which we clearly see during his loyalty mission. He can't make the decision whether to destroy the heretics or rewrite the heretics, because his programs can't form a consensus. He lacks the proper context to make that decision, because context is something that only sapient creatures have and understand.
I'm pretty sure the other quarians did, actually.Except for the Quarians that tried to help them. Lulz, poor Geth still killed them
Modifié par Xilizhra, 19 août 2013 - 08:06 .
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Necanor wrote...
Except for the Quarians that tried to help them. Lulz, poor Geth still killed them:happy:
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
I still don't understand why people get so concerned about toasters.
Besides by the time I got to the end of Rannoch I was thoroughly sick of the "I WANNA BE A REAL BOY!!!" schtick the Geth and EDI got forced into for 3.
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