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[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

alleyd wrote...

Why was Liara made Shadow Broker if virtually nothing was carried forward in the later game?

I felt she suited the role of being a Prothean specialist and would have hot footed it back to Ilos, a virtually undisturbed Prothean site.

The only thing she is worse at than being the SB is a Prothen researcher.

She found the plans for the Crucible.

At an already working Alliance research lab.  If she hadn't someone else would have. 

Conjecture. 

Fact is, she used her skills to find the plans for the weapon that saved the galaxy. That they were stored in an established research base just makes her actions better, if anything. The Alliance didn't find the plans and they've been there for over thirty years. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 19 août 2013 - 10:51 .

[Br3admax]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

alleyd wrote...

Why was Liara made Shadow Broker if virtually nothing was carried forward in the later game?

I felt she suited the role of being a Prothean specialist and would have hot footed it back to Ilos, a virtually undisturbed Prothean site.

The only thing she is worse at than being the SB is a Prothen researcher.

Ok no, sorry steel but now you're just trolling.

She should have just picked one of those jobs, not both. 

[CynicalShep]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

alleyd wrote...

I don't think the Quarians were unlucky, but were sacrificed by an immoral council policy that was inconsistent. Why did the Council not intervene at all, either to contain the threat of the Geth or enforce their own policies regarding AI's?

Because the geth didn't threaten any asari worlds

That's because they love the Asari!

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You're wrong. That's not plot armor at all.

Plot armor is a character surviving certain-death situations in a contrived fashion by nothing more than 'luck' in story.

Plot armor is not 'Any character who can't be killed in a game where some characters can be killed.'

Baria Frontiers bombing.  She survives merely because she is lucky.

Except, she's not the only person to survive the bombing, and was in an area that wasn't damaged by the bomb. 

Random civilian #245 has plot armor too

Well, no, it means she doesn't have plot armor, not everyone has plot armor. 

Not everyone does

'Everyone' being everyone who survived the bombing. 

[Steelcan]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

alleyd wrote...

Why was Liara made Shadow Broker if virtually nothing was carried forward in the later game?

I felt she suited the role of being a Prothean specialist and would have hot footed it back to Ilos, a virtually undisturbed Prothean site.

The only thing she is worse at than being the SB is a Prothen researcher.

Ok no, sorry steel but now you're just trolling.

Not saying she is a particularly bad Prothean Researcher, she seems to be largely in line with pre-vailing thought concerning the nature of Prothean civilization.  It just turns out all predictions of Prothean society were laughably inaccurate.

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Conjecture. 

Fact is, she used her skills to find the plans for the weapon that saved the galaxy. That they were stored in an established research base just makes it better, if anything. The Alliance didn't find the plans and they've been there for over thirty years. 

Do her skills include "blatant writer favoritism" combined with ME3 being written into a corner?  Because thats all I saw at work.

[David7204]

There's no fault in writers liking and focusing on a certain character. In fact, it's something to be encouraged.

[Barquiel]

alleyd wrote...

Why was Liara made Shadow Broker if virtually nothing was carried forward in the later game?

I felt she suited the role of being a Prothean specialist and would have hot footed it back to Ilos, a virtually undisturbed Prothean site.

She discovered the Crucible plans thanks to her SB resources. Liara went to Kahje to study the prothean ruins there, and discovered a promising lead in the form of encryption keys for other Prothean archives. Then she informed Admiral Hackett of a possible lead and asked for access to the Mars archive.

[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

alleyd wrote...

Why was Liara made Shadow Broker if virtually nothing was carried forward in the later game?

I felt she suited the role of being a Prothean specialist and would have hot footed it back to Ilos, a virtually undisturbed Prothean site.

The only thing she is worse at than being the SB is a Prothen researcher.

Ok no, sorry steel but now you're just trolling.

Not saying she is a particularly bad Prothean Researcher, she seems to be largely in line with pre-vailing thought concerning the nature of Prothean civilization.  It just turns out all predictions of Prothean society were laughably inaccurate.

She was wrong about their society yes, she was not wrong about them not creating the relays or citadel which if you remeber her peers thoguht she was wrong about. She also had knowledge about Illos and it's basic look along with other stuff. Being wrong about their society does not make her a bad prothean expert, more so when all the stuff we had never pointed at the truth. Everyone was wrong about prothean society, not just Liara, least liara was right about other stuff and had good knowledge about ruins.

[Femlob]

David7204 wrote...

There's no fault in writers liking and focusing on a certain character. In fact, it's something to be encouraged.

I don't think it works as well in the case of an ensemble cast, which I always assumed ME to be. I might be mistaken on that, though.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

There's no fault in writers liking and focusing on a certain character. In fact, it's something to be encouraged.

When the writers start to neglect other characters because of inordinate focus on some it becomes an issue.

Believe it or not many people were fans of Thane, Jack, Miranda, Ashley, and even Jacob (yes Jacob) and their vanilla content is atrocious. 

No romance scene for 4/5 of those AND Liara's is longer, and not buggy as hell.

Modifié par Steelcan, 19 août 2013 - 10:56 .

[CynicalShep]

Necanor wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Long story short, Council sucks balls.  I gave them a chance by saving their lives.  Now I just want to kill them all. 

The council would be a lot better without the Asari.

Humanity wouldn't have existed in the MEU if turians had their way. 
"-So, what do with do with them? Do you want to bomb them, uplift them or experiment on them?"

Asari are a necessary evil (especially the hookers)

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

There's no fault in writers liking and focusing on a certain character. In fact, it's something to be encouraged.

Is this a serious post too? The only person with more plot armor in a BioWare game is Revan. You shouldn't care about anything so much that you refuse to let it die.

Modifié par Br3ad, 19 août 2013 - 10:57 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Conjecture. 

Fact is, she used her skills to find the plans for the weapon that saved the galaxy. That they were stored in an established research base just makes it better, if anything. The Alliance didn't find the plans and they've been there for over thirty years. 

Do her skills include "blatant writer favoritism" combined with ME3 being written into a corner?  Because thats all I saw at work.

Give me a reason why Liara shouldn't have found the plans for the Crucible.

[Steelcan]

Mr.House wrote...

She was wrong about their society yes, she was not wrong about them not creating the relays or citadel which if you remeber her peers thoguht she was wrong about. She also had knowledge about Illos and it's basic look along with other stuff. Being wrong about their society does not make her a bad prothean expert, more so when all the stuff we had never pointed at the truth. Everyone was wrong about prothean society, not just Liara, least liara was right about other stuff and had good knowledge about ruins.

Anyone who calls themselves an expert on Ancient Romans and thinks they were benevolent philosophers spreading enlightenment out of an inate desire to see other cultures learn needs a change in field of study.

Modifié par Steelcan, 19 août 2013 - 10:58 .

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Conjecture. 

Fact is, she used her skills to find the plans for the weapon that saved the galaxy. That they were stored in an established research base just makes it better, if anything. The Alliance didn't find the plans and they've been there for over thirty years. 

Do her skills include "blatant writer favoritism" combined with ME3 being written into a corner?  Because thats all I saw at work.

Give me a reason why Liara shouldn't have found the plans for the Crucible.

She is busy being SB (a bad one, but that is a different story)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

She survives Cerberus taking over the Mars Archives simply by her Liaraness.

Because we have never met other characters surviving ambushes or live threatning/high risk situations in the Mass Effect series?

Like Ashley, Tali (she's done it twice now!), Jack.

Also examples of plot armor.

Liara's obvious armor DOES NOT detract from her charcater.

If those are examples of plot armor as well, then frankly the term has no meaning at all.  If plot armor is just surviving an encounter with enemy forces. Then pretty much almost every character has plot armor.

I admit, I do think Liara has plot armor, but her surviving the attack on Mars or the trading center are not cases of it.

Br3ad wrote...
At those points, weren't they important to the
plot. And when we get there, most of those people still had a team. They
just die in the process. And where does Jack do this. She isn't alone.

Ashley was hardly had a huge role in the plot, Jack certainly was not.

And the Mars archieve had a garrison of security guards who even after we find Liara are still putting up a fight. She was not alone in trying to fight off Cerberus.

[David7204]

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

There's no fault in writers liking and focusing on a certain character. In fact, it's something to be encouraged.

Is this a serious post too? The only person with more plot armor in a BioWare game is Revan. You shouldn't care about anything so much that you refuse to let it die.

You want to argue, argue here. As I said, you should have problem if it's so obvious. 

[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Conjecture. 

Fact is, she used her skills to find the plans for the weapon that saved the galaxy. That they were stored in an established research base just makes it better, if anything. The Alliance didn't find the plans and they've been there for over thirty years. 

Do her skills include "blatant writer favoritism" combined with ME3 being written into a corner?  Because thats all I saw at work.

Give me a reason why Liara shouldn't have found the plans for the Crucible.

She is busy being SB (a bad one, but that is a different story)

She should have never been Sb to begin with.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

There's no fault in writers liking and focusing on a certain character. In fact, it's something to be encouraged.

Is this a serious post too? The only person with more plot armor in a BioWare game is Revan. You shouldn't care about anything so much that you refuse to let it die.

REVAN IS MY WAIFU/HUSBANDO!!!

Fight me in space.

[David7204]

Mr.House wrote...

She should have never been Sb to begin with.

Enlighten me of your brilliant idea of what Liara 'should have been,' House.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

David7204 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She should have never been Sb to begin with.

Enlighten me of your brilliant idea of what Liara 'should have been,' House.

Given the current ME3 it would have been better if she just stayed a Prothean expert.

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Conjecture. 

Fact is, she used her skills to find the plans for the weapon that saved the galaxy. That they were stored in an established research base just makes it better, if anything. The Alliance didn't find the plans and they've been there for over thirty years. 

Do her skills include "blatant writer favoritism" combined with ME3 being written into a corner?  Because thats all I saw at work.

Give me a reason why Liara shouldn't have found the plans for the Crucible.

She is busy being SB (a bad one, but that is a different story)

Being the Shadow Broker was what led her to the Crucible plans. Try again. 

[Mr.House]

David7204 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She should have never been Sb to begin with.

Enlighten me of your brilliant idea of what Liara 'should have been,' House.

Doing her job, which ME3 made possible again instead of the writter not knowing what to do and gave her a pointless middle chapter arc.

[Mr.House]

Lizardviking wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

She should have never been Sb to begin with.

Enlighten me of your brilliant idea of what Liara 'should have been,' House.

Given the current ME3 it would have been better if she just stayed a Prothean expert.

Indeed. By the protheans being important, Liara had a proper role again, there was no need for this pointlesss SB plot that the writters made for ME2 because

1:They did no planning
2:Had no clue what to do with the character