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I find it strange that in the trilogy, we aren't allowed to...


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#851
Steelcan

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KaiserShep wrote...

Liara is trained in using a firearm and has powerful biotics. There's no point in arguing whether or not she had training. Her abilities speak for themselves.

I spent more medi-gel on her than anyone else.  Never used her.

Worst squadmate ever

#852
Br3admax

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Using bonus powers as canon is almost as bad as using the above as canon.

#853
Cainhurst Crow

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David7204 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara was doubtless trained in combat by Shepard during the events of the first game.


Never shown. Never mentioned in codex. Never brought up in any conversation. Never writien in any part of the game.

Try harder.

It doesn't have to be shown. It's a perfectly plausible explanation that makes the most sense. Liara is not a warrior. She becomes one. The sensible explanation is that she received training. That's called 'deductive reasoning.' Maybe you should try it some time.

Try harder.


Deductive reasoning requires evidence to allow a point A to point B logical path. For example, you can deduce that because liara was the daughter of a important political figure, she'd recieve training to protect herself. You can deduce that because she was an asari of important lineage, and daughter of a powerful biotic, she'd recieve training in honing her biotic skills.

But assuming that she got her training because shepard was her squad leader? In the short span of less than a year between mass effect 1 and the begining of mass effect 2? That's a damn pretty big strech. That doesn't even explain her level of skill in combat being beyond that of a basic solider when using a gun, which seems odd for a archeologist who didn't work in the terminus system.

#854
Seboist

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David7204 wrote...

Slight gameplay and story segregation. Besides, the game doesn't show how much time actually passes between missions. Given that the events of the game probably take months, likely considerable time.

It doesn't need to have basis in the game or codex. It just needs to have basis in logic. And it does.


There's nothing logical about considering your headcanon/LARP as what actually happens in the story.

#855
CronoDragoon

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David7204 wrote...
It doesn't have to be shown. It's a perfectly plausible explanation that makes the most sense. Liara is not a warrior. She becomes one. The sensible explanation is that she received training. That's called 'deductive reasoning.' Maybe you should try it some time.


That is in fact not deductive reasoning, unless you can form a set of premises that lead to the logically certain conclusion that Shepard trained Liara.

The word you're looking for is "possible'. Possible but unshown.

Either way, I don't care, read the last page, and can't figure out why this matters or why anyone should care. You either accept that Liara can fight very well as of when you get her in ME1, or you reject her immediately. This isn't an ME2 or ME3 issue.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 20 août 2013 - 12:05 .


#856
Steelcan

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David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Slight gameplay and story segregation. Besides, the game doesn't show how much time actually passes between missions. Given that the events of the game probably take months, likely considerable time.

It doesn't need to have basis in the game or codex. It just needs to have basis in logic. And it does.

Is there a shooting range on the Normandy?  Or sufficient room to practise biotics?


First of all, considering the Normandy doesn't have a bathroom, we should consider the size of the Normandy we see in the game as only semi-canonical.

Secondly, I'm sure they could rig something up. And besides, the Normandy spends time docked at the Citadel, Feros, Noveria.

Right.  I'm sure the Normandy actually has a shooting range  on level 7, above the bowling alley, but below the theatre.

#857
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

A school teacher can learn martial arts despite it having nothing to do with their profession.

That is true, but Liara makes no mention of any sort of martial training


She is the daughter of a high ranking asari matriach, maybe she learned as a means of self-defence.

Again, not impossible, but she makes no mention of any training.


I find it to be a minor point, I don't need to know where Wrex trained either, especially when there is a reasonable answer right in front of the player.

#858
David7204

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

Deductive reasoning requires evidence to allow a point A to point B logical path. For example, you can deduce that because liara was the daughter of a important political figure, she'd recieve training to protect herself. You can deduce that because she was an asari of important lineage, and daughter of a powerful biotic, she'd recieve training in honing her biotic skills.

But assuming that she got her training because shepard was her squad leader? In the short span of less than a year between mass effect 1 and the begining of mass effect 2? That's a damn pretty big strech. That doesn't even explain her level of skill in combat being beyond that of a basic solider when using a gun, which seems odd for a archeologist who didn't work in the terminus system.

Soldiers in Would War II were often trained from scratch in as little as three weeks in large groups.

Shepard and Liara could easily have had six months, training one on one.

It's not a stretch at all.

#859
dreamgazer

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Well, I don't think it can really be disputed that most asari are trained to exploit their biotic abilities, since it's part of their schooling's regular curriculum (mentioned after Grissom Academy).

#860
Steelcan

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Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

A school teacher can learn martial arts despite it having nothing to do with their profession.

That is true, but Liara makes no mention of any sort of martial training


She is the daughter of a high ranking asari matriach, maybe she learned as a means of self-defence.

Again, not impossible, but she makes no mention of any training.


I find it to be a minor point, I don't need to know where Wrex trained either, especially when there is a reasonable answer right in front of the player.

I wasn't aware Thessia was a war torn apocalyptic wasteland where survival is paramount to any sort of familial bond or sense of loyalty.

#861
David7204

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Deductive reasoning does not require a logically 'certain' answer. And I'm not suggestion this as a certainty. But it is the most sensible explanation. Liara was not a warrior, and she received training.

#862
DOsquareZER

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Steelcan wrote...
I spent more medi-gel on her than anyone else.  Never used her.

Worst squadmate ever

huh.. thats probably because you suck.  I used her and wrex on insanity, without much difficulty (ME1).  They just ripped things apart.

#863
Cainhurst Crow

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David7204 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Deductive reasoning requires evidence to allow a point A to point B logical path. For example, you can deduce that because liara was the daughter of a important political figure, she'd recieve training to protect herself. You can deduce that because she was an asari of important lineage, and daughter of a powerful biotic, she'd recieve training in honing her biotic skills.

But assuming that she got her training because shepard was her squad leader? In the short span of less than a year between mass effect 1 and the begining of mass effect 2? That's a damn pretty big strech. That doesn't even explain her level of skill in combat being beyond that of a basic solider when using a gun, which seems odd for a archeologist who didn't work in the terminus system.

Soldiers in Would War II were often trained from scratch in as little as three weeks in large groups.

Shepard and Liara could easily have had six months, training one on one.

It's not a stretch at all.


Soliders of WWII also seemed to rely heavily on machines and tactics relying on massive numbers over specialized training in combat similar to todays military.

#864
themikefest

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Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Liara is trained in using a firearm and has powerful biotics. There's no point in arguing whether or not she had training. Her abilities speak for themselves.

I spent more medi-gel on her than anyone else.  Never used her.

Worst squadmate ever

Agreed.

On the Palaven mission after T'soni fixed the comms tower, I went to the right to help Vega fight some husks, I look to the left and see a husk jump on T'soni, hit her 3 times and she falls  "dead". I checked the difficulty and surprised I had it on narrative mode. I laughed and thought , why is she a squadmate? 

#865
Cainhurst Crow

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Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

A school teacher can learn martial arts despite it having nothing to do with their profession.

That is true, but Liara makes no mention of any sort of martial training


She is the daughter of a high ranking asari matriach, maybe she learned as a means of self-defence.

Again, not impossible, but she makes no mention of any training.


I find it to be a minor point, I don't need to know where Wrex trained either, especially when there is a reasonable answer right in front of the player.

I wasn't aware Thessia was a war torn apocalyptic wasteland where survival is paramount to any sort of familial bond or sense of loyalty.


I wasn't aware benesia was a clan leader for a band of powerful warriors either. The more you know, I guess.

#866
AresKeith

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David7204 wrote...

Deductive reasoning does not require a logically 'certain' answer. And I'm not suggestion this as a certainty. But it is the most sensible explanation. Liara was not a warrior, and she received training.


Liara was trained to shoot a gun long before she met Shepard

She mostly uses her biotics anyway so why start a random argument

#867
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

A school teacher can learn martial arts despite it having nothing to do with their profession.

That is true, but Liara makes no mention of any sort of martial training


She is the daughter of a high ranking asari matriach, maybe she learned as a means of self-defence.

Again, not impossible, but she makes no mention of any training.


I find it to be a minor point, I don't need to know where Wrex trained either, especially when there is a reasonable answer right in front of the player.

I wasn't aware Thessia was a war torn apocalyptic wasteland where survival is paramount to any sort of familial bond or sense of loyalty.


No, Thessia was not a war torn apocalyptic wasteland where survival is paramount to any sort of familial bond or sense of loyalty, but she was the daughter of a high ranking matriach and therefor it is not unreasonable to assume she learned self defence in the form of her biotics.

#868
David7204

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Six months of one-on-one training for who knows how many hours each day is more than enough for Liara's skills to be completely possible.

#869
The Don's Hound

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David7204 wrote...

Deductive reasoning does not require a logically 'certain' answer. And I'm not suggestion this as a certainty. But it is the most sensible explanation. Liara was not a warrior, and she received training.

Training doesn't make someone a warrior, if you took a scientist, or someone with a job that requires little or no physcial training, like Liara's, and trained that person to fight, it would take a fair bit of time, including her biotics, you have quite the job to do. 

#870
Cainhurst Crow

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It's not the fact that she knows how to fight I have a problem with. It's that she seems to know how to fight in such a way that it exceeds the skill of a normal solider and goes into "one of the best" territories in terms of her skill.

#871
David7204

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AresKeith wrote...

Liara was trained to shoot a gun long before she met Shepard

She mostly uses her biotics anyway so why start a random argument

Is there any evidence of that outside of gameplay, which shouldn't count due to gameplay and story segregation?

#872
CronoDragoon

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David7204 wrote...

Deductive reasoning does not require a logically 'certain' answer. And I'm not suggestion this as a certainty. But it is the most sensible explanation. Liara was not a warrior, and she received training.


...That is exactly what deductive reasoning is. Producing a logically certain conclusion. Sherlock Holmes, for example, does not use deductive reasoning despite his claims, because he does not prove the impossibility of his claim being otherwise based on his premises.

I agree with you that it's sensible that she received training.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 20 août 2013 - 12:12 .


#873
Steelcan

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Lizardviking wrote...


No, Thessia was not a war torn apocalyptic wasteland where survival is paramount to any sort of familial bond or sense of loyalty, but she was the daughter of a high ranking matriach and therefor it is not unreasonable to assume she learned self defence in the form of her biotics.

The kind of biotic ability she displays is on par with asari commandos whon spend centuries honing their skills (and still suck)

#874
ParkBom

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doozer12 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
I spent more medi-gel on her than anyone else.  Never used her.

Worst squadmate ever

huh.. thats probably because you suck.  I used her and wrex on insanity, without much difficulty (ME1).  They just ripped things apart.



#875
Br3admax

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Shepard also trained Tali. I have made this canon and you cannot dispute it.