1007 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

CynicalShep wrote...

* assuming that everybody's Shepard loves Liara as much as yours
* assuming 6 months have passed
* assuming 6 months is enough to make Liara as good in combat as trained soldiers and veteran warlords
* assuming spectre Shepard who is chasing Saren, hunting criminals and running errands for the Alliance (optionally) has a lot of time and desire to teach Liara everything he knows
* assuming a infiltrator Shepard could teach Liara much in terms of biotics and combat

Sounds like you are making a few leaps of faith

Not at all. This is what the story tells us. The story tells us Liara is a skilled warrior. That's not up for debate. The story says so, and thus it's true. Period.

All I'm doing is deducing the most likely explanation for that. If you have a more likely explanation with less assumptions of why Liara is a skilled warrior, by all means, share it.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 12:39 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

David7204 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

It's not the fact that she knows how to fight I have a problem with. It's that she seems to know how to fight in such a way that it exceeds the skill of a normal solider and goes into "one of the best" territories in terms of her skill.

Other soldiers don't have Shepard as their mentor.

In any case, would this not apply equally well to almost any character in any action fiction in existence?

Liara is a scientist and digger in the dirt for artifacts, her training should pale in comparison to the others, at points, it seems to excede it instead.

Yes, you seem to be proving my point. Liara likely has no combat experience. Therefore, the most sensible explanation is that she received training from Shepard. What are you trying to argue again?

That the writers unintentionally or perhaps intentionally over-exagerated liara's skills in the story, and made her a character who suffers from plot armor and a bit of a mary sue-complex through their not so steller writing.

[David7204]

Hardly. Liara is not a Mary Sue and does not have plot armor. And you seem to be changing the subject anyway. Are you agreeing with me that Shepard probably trained Liara how to fight?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

* assuming that everybody's Shepard loves Liara as much as yours
* assuming 6 months have passed
* assuming 6 months is enough to make Liara as good in combat as trained soldiers and veteran warlords
* assuming spectre Shepard who is chasing Saren, hunting criminals and running errands for the Alliance (optionally) has a lot of time and desire to teach Liara everything he knows
* assuming a infiltrator Shepard could teach Liara much in terms of biotics and combat

Sounds like you are making a few leaps of faith

Not at all. This is what the story tells us. The story tells us Liara is a skilled warrior. That's not up for debate. The story says so, and thus it's true. Period.

All I'm doing is deducing the most likely explanation for that. If you have a more likely explanation with less assumptions of why Liara is a skilled warrior, by all means, share it.

The game says her biotics ae handy.  But comparing her to actual warriors like Samara, Zaeed, Wrex, etc... is just you drooling on your waifu

[Xilizhra]

That the writers unintentionally or perhaps intentionally over-exagerated liara's skills in the story, and made her a character who suffers from plot armor and a bit of a mary sue-complex through their not so steller writing.

It strikes me as far more likely that they just didn't flesh out her backstory sufficiently. Fewer assumptions to make.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. Liara is not a Mary Sue and does not have plot armor.

This is true as I know, for I editted TVtropes to tell me so

[ParkBom]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Oh, I know it bounces. It's quite useful. However, the damage it does it just less than a BE from Warp+Throw, if the right evolitions are chosen. Not to mention Liara's minimal cooldown on Singularity, which does the same amount of BE damage as Dark Channel and lifts multiple. Idk if SP received the buff that Singularity received in MP but there, it is a powerhouse power.

It's jump ability compensates for a slow recharge time, and it works on shielded enemies which singularity does not.

Warp does as well. If fighting shielded enemies, I can simply shoot+Kaidan/EDI Overload before Singularity.

But enemies have a nasty habit of dodging warp

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

[CynicalShep]

Br3ad wrote...

Liara is blue and has boobs. She was born knowing how to shoot a gun.

Asari shoot all sorts of guns across the galaxy, especiallyin their maiden years.

[Br3admax]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

This is the argument that's making this thread move so fast? Really?

Well both David and Xil are here. What did you expect? 

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

Liara is a scientist and digger in the dirt for artifacts, her training should pale in comparison to the others, at points, it seems to excede it instead.

Liara actually has no weapons training ability in ME1, so that's reflected. She does focus mostly on her biotics as a combat mechanism; she does, however, mention that she's had to fight off pirates and others while on her digs. Which would seem to at least match Tali.

Every Quarian is in top physical condition and she was trained in CQC and small arms weapons since she was a teen. Like Shep, she also has numerous tech implants to enhance her physical and combat abilities. I don't really see Liara having any of that, asside from biotics(which all Asari have)

[David7204]

If anyone has an alternative explanation for why Liara is a skilled warrior, I'm listening. Because I'm not hearing anything.

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Liara is a scientist and digger in the dirt for artifacts, her training should pale in comparison to the others, at points, it seems to excede it instead.

Liara actually has no weapons training ability in ME1, so that's reflected. She does focus mostly on her biotics as a combat mechanism; she does, however, mention that she's had to fight off pirates and others while on her digs. Which would seem to at least match Tali.

Every Quarian is in top physical condition and she was trained in CQC and small arms weapons since she was a teen. Like Shep, she also has numerous tech implants to enhance her physical and combat abilities. I don't really see Liara having any of that, asside from biotics(which all Asari have)

Some of that sounds made up, and it's only logical for Liara to have gone through such training if she's doing solo digs in unfriendly space.

[Steelcan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

[David7204]

A lot of you seem to be making my arguments for me without realizing it. Yes, Liara likely did not have combat experience before ME 1. That's my entire point. That supports the whole idea that she was trained by Shepard.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not if you enhance it; I've rarely had issues with charge time.

[Br3admax]

Do you know what a fallacy is?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

If anyone has an alternative explanation for why Liara is a skilled warrior passable at self defence I'm listening. Because I'm not hearing anything.

She recieved some basic training to keep herself safe.

[CynicalShep]

David7204 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

* assuming that everybody's Shepard loves Liara as much as yours
* assuming 6 months have passed
* assuming 6 months is enough to make Liara as good in combat as trained soldiers and veteran warlords
* assuming spectre Shepard who is chasing Saren, hunting criminals and running errands for the Alliance (optionally) has a lot of time and desire to teach Liara everything he knows
* assuming a infiltrator Shepard could teach Liara much in terms of biotics and combat

Sounds like you are making a few leaps of faith

Not at all. This is what the story tells us. The story tells us Liara is a skilled warrior. That's not up for debate. The story says so, and thus it's true. Period.

All I'm doing is deducing the most likely explanation for that. If you have a more likely explanation with less assumptions of why Liara is a skilled warrior, by all means, share it.

Which is exactly why you don't make any sense. What's more likely?
1. That Liara's mother, who is a very powerful biotic with a bunch of commando followers tought Liara self-defense and the encounters she had with pirates at digsites gave her a little practice
2. That a infiltrator Shepard who was one very busy spectre tought her how to use her biotics and made her a good shot in a few months.

Come on, it's not that hard

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not if you enhance it; I've rarely had issues with charge time.

I find that her points are better spent making sure she doesn't fall over in a stiff wind.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

If anyone has an alternative explanation for why Liara is a skilled warrior, I'm listening. Because I'm not hearing anything.

Ummm Biotics? 

[ParkBom]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not at all. Her recharge speed is halved lowered, if you choose her passives accordingly.

Modifié par JusticarFlareon, 20 août 2013 - 12:47 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote..

Liara is a scientist and digger in the dirt for artifacts, her training should pale in comparison to the others, at points, it seems to excede it instead.

Liara actually has no weapons training ability in ME1, so that's reflected. She does focus mostly on her biotics as a combat mechanism; she does, however, mention that she's had to fight off pirates and others while on her digs. Which would seem to at least match Tali.

Every Quarian is in top physical condition and she was trained in CQC and small arms weapons since she was a teen. Like Shep, she also has numerous tech implants to enhance her physical and combat abilities. 

Some of that sounds made up, and it's only logical for Liara to have gone through such training if she's doing solo digs in unfriendly space.

None of that is made up, Tali talks about her training in ME1 and 2, the Ascension novel gives info and the codex also mentions quite a bit about Quarian physical training.

[Steelcan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not at all. Her recharge speed is halved lowered, if you choose her passives accordingly.

I usually go for power over recharge speed