1007 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcadian Legend]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

This is the argument that's making this thread move so fast and taking up most of my feed? Really?

Really.

[ParkBom]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not at all. Her recharge speed is halved lowered, if you choose her passives accordingly.

I usually go for power over recharge speed

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not if you enhance it; I've rarely had issues with charge time.

I find that her points are better spent making sure she doesn't fall over in a stiff wind.

Where do you get these problems with her survivability, exactly? I do not experience her dying more often than anyone else.

[Steelcan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

[David7204]

CynicalShep wrote...

Which is exactly why you don't make any sense. What's more likely?
1. That Liara's mother, who is a very powerful biotic with a bunch of commando followers tought Liara self-defense and the encounters she had with pirates at digsites gave her a little practice
2. That a infiltrator Shepard who was one very busy spectre tought her how to use her biotics and made her a good shot in a few months.

Come on, it's not that hard

Given Liara's timid disposition, lack of dialogue concerning any training, level of skill, and job as an archeologist before meeting Shepard, the second explanation is far more likely.

Shepard was probably not continually busy. A great deal of time would likely canonically be spent simply traveling to system to system or completely tasks not relevent to Shepard. Such as refueling and restocking and maitenence. Also, even if Shepard is not a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are, and they both seem like they would be willing to lend a hand. Plus, all asari learn biotics. Not all of them learn other combat skills.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 12:54 .

[ParkBom]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not if you enhance it; I've rarely had issues with charge time.

I find that her points are better spent making sure she doesn't fall over in a stiff wind.

Where do you get these problems with her survivability, exactly? I do not experience her dying more often than anyone else.

in my playthroughs she gets downed much more often than anybody else, well maybe Tali is tied.

[The Night Mammoth]

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Liara is a scientist and digger in the dirt for artifacts, her training should pale in comparison to the others, at points, it seems to excede it instead.

Liara actually has no weapons training ability in ME1, so that's reflected. She does focus mostly on her biotics as a combat mechanism; she does, however, mention that she's had to fight off pirates and others while on her digs. Which would seem to at least match Tali.

Every Quarian is in top physical condition and she was trained in CQC and small arms weapons since she was a teen. Like Shep, she also has numerous tech implants to enhance her physical and combat abilities. I don't really see Liara having any of that, asside from biotics(which all Asari have)

Some of that sounds made up, and it's only logical for Liara to have gone through such training if she's doing solo digs in unfriendly space.

I don't know about any of that being made up, but yeah, I don't see why Liara couldn't have had similar training.

[Steelcan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

[AlexMBrennan]

Every Quarian is in top physical condition and she was trained in CQC and small arms weapons since she was a teen

Source?

Like Shep, she also has numerous tech implants

Source? The closest to that in the games is that some people speculate that the quarians might be partial cyborgs because their faces are hidden, and by the same logic you would have to accept that George W Bush is an alien lizard

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Logistics? Grenades have to be manufactured, transported and distributed.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 20 août 2013 - 12:54 .

[Xilizhra]

in my playthroughs she gets downed much more often than anybody else, well maybe Tali is tied.

Possibly I'm better at using her, then.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Range and lack of ammunition.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 août 2013 - 12:53 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

in my playthroughs she gets downed much more often than anybody else, well maybe Tali is tied.

Possibly I'm better at using her, then.

Probably, I only use her when forced to.

[ParkBom]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Lift Grenades don't detonate BEs. And I don't use both on a single target. 

[Steelcan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Lift Grenades don't detonate BEs. And I don't use both on a single target. 

But they set them up, and then throw with the double throw evolution sets them off

[ParkBom]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Lift Grenades don't detonate BEs. And I don't use both on a single target. 

But they set them up, and then throw with the double throw evolution sets them off

On unshield enemies solely. In that situation, I find it wasteful to waste a grenade on that.

[Steelcan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Lift Grenades don't detonate BEs. And I don't use both on a single target. 

But they set them up, and then throw with the double throw evolution sets them off

On unshield enemies solely. In that situation, I find it wasteful to waste a grenade on that.

Thats what dark channel is for

[ParkBom]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Lift Grenades don't detonate BEs. And I don't use both on a single target. 

But they set them up, and then throw with the double throw evolution sets them off

On unshield enemies solely. In that situation, I find it wasteful to waste a grenade on that.

Thats what dark channel is for

And that's what Singularity does better.

[Steelcan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

A bit of power is kinda meaningless on Liara, seeing as a majority of her powers deal with setting up rather than hitting hard.

Her powers hit like a mosquito bite. 

Singularity and Warp, used correctly, hit like a freight train.

Why use two powers when one grenade fulfills both?

Lift Grenades don't detonate BEs. And I don't use both on a single target. 

But they set them up, and then throw with the double throw evolution sets them off

On unshield enemies solely. In that situation, I find it wasteful to waste a grenade on that.

Thats what dark channel is for

And that's what Singularity does better.

But it doesn't affect shielded enemies

[ParkBom]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Oh, I know it bounces. It's quite useful. However, the damage it does it just less than a BE from Warp+Throw, if the right evolitions are chosen. Not to mention Liara's minimal cooldown on Singularity, which does the same amount of BE damage as Dark Channel and lifts multiple. Idk if SP received the buff that Singularity received in MP but there, it is a powerhouse power.

It's jump ability compensates for a slow recharge time, and it works on shielded enemies which singularity does not.

Warp does as well. If fighting shielded enemies, I can simply shoot+Kaidan/EDI Overload before Singularity.

But enemies have a nasty habit of dodging warp

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

[ParkBom]

J. Reezy wrote...

All this powers talk. Somebody hurry up and amuse me.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkg68y_AYaFwuKpBxL3OGdHJN-dVi8Vq2ccqKDKq-wverQBJ9i

[CronoDragoon]

David7204 wrote...
Let me make this simple for you. Instead of rambling on making proclamations of what deductive reasoning supposedly is and isn't

The correct response here was: "You're right, Crono. What I said initially wasn't deductive reasoning like I claimed. Here is my argument rephrased to be logically valid."

Also odd that you asked for me to point out a flaw and when this is done it's "rambling".

point out to my the flaw in these two statements right here.

A is the most likely explanation for B. This is given.
B, therefore A. (Probably.)

Is the second statement a valid conclusion, or is it not?

It would be difficult to explain to you how complicated that question is, and quite honestly you would apparently just call what I say "rambling" anyway, so I'll bastardize logic in this case and say:

If we accept probabilistic statements as simple statements in elementary symbolic logic and organize the argument this way:

A > B (in this case, "probably" would simply be assimilated as being part of B for the sake of conformity)
B
_______

A (once again, "probably" is within the statement A)

Then no, that's still not valid.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 20 août 2013 - 01:08 .

[AlanC9]

David7204 wrote...

Given Liara's timid disposition, lack of dialogue concerning any training, level of skill, and job as an archeologist before meeting Shepard, the second explanation is far more likely.

Note that Liara's job as an archaeologist involved occasionally fending off mercs, scavengers, and whatnot. As she says, nothing her biotics couldn't handle.