1007 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

And can I just quote myself from a page ago and say OH MY GAWD WHO CARES.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Perhaps Shepard's ball-shaped Warp that's a projectile, yes. However, Liara's one that instahits? Rarely. Though, I reserve it for bosses. Everything else gets Paladin+Overload (If it has shields or not)+Singularity+Throw

Liara's warp takes too long to recharge.  In that time I could have used a grenade and throw twice.

Not at all. Her recharge speed is halved lowered, if you choose her passives accordingly.

I usually go for power over recharge speed

Really?  I go for speed all the way. Tske them down with lightning speed barrages of power.

[CynicalShep]

David7204 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Which is exactly why you don't make any sense. What's more likely?
1. That Liara's mother, who is a very powerful biotic with a bunch of commando followers tought Liara self-defense and the encounters she had with pirates at digsites gave her a little practice
2. That a infiltrator Shepard who was one very busy spectre tought her how to use her biotics and made her a good shot in a few months.

Come on, it's not that hard

Given Liara's timid disposition, lack of dialogue concerning any training, level of skill, and job as an archeologist before meeting Shepard, the second explanation is far more likely.

Shepard was probably not continually busy. A great deal of time would likely canonically be spent simply traveling to system to system or completely tasks not relevent to Shepard. Such as refueling and restocking and maitenence. Also, even if Shepard is not a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are, and they both seem like they would be willing to lend a hand. Plus, all asari learn biotics. Not all of them learn other combat skills.

You're shooting  down your own argument. So the timid Liara, who is shy around others and has no experience with humans was more likely to learn all her combat skills from Shepard than her mother, who would logically be one of the few people she is comfortable with. And she mentioned that she was more than good enough to defend herself from pirates and such while on her travels/digs.

[dreamgazer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

And can I just quote myself from a page ago and say OH MY GAWD WHO CARES.

I care.

Well, I might, if I could remember what the hell we were talking about.

Was their martial arts training involved for the TVTropes' "edit wars"? 

[David7204]

CynicalShep wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Given Liara's timid disposition, lack of dialogue concerning any training, level of skill, and job as an archeologist before meeting Shepard, the second explanation is far more likely.

Shepard was probably not continually busy. A great deal of time would likely canonically be spent simply traveling to system to system or completely tasks not relevent to Shepard. Such as refueling and restocking and maitenence. Also, even if Shepard is not a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are, and they both seem like they would be willing to lend a hand. Plus, all asari learn biotics. Not all of them learn other combat skills.

You're shooting  down your own argument. So the timid Liara, who is shy around others and has no experience with humans was more likely to learn all her combat skills from Shepard than her mother, who would logically be one of the few people she is comfortable with. And she mentioned that she was more than good enough to defend herself from pirates and such while on her travels/digs.

Absolutely. Being timid doesn't mean you can't be brave. Shepard is far more likely to give her a push in the right direction than Benezia would be.

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Given Liara's timid disposition, lack of dialogue concerning any training, level of skill, and job as an archeologist before meeting Shepard, the second explanation is far more likely.

Shepard was probably not continually busy. A great deal of time would likely canonically be spent simply traveling to system to system or completely tasks not relevent to Shepard. Such as refueling and restocking and maitenence. Also, even if Shepard is not a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are, and they both seem like they would be willing to lend a hand. Plus, all asari learn biotics. Not all of them learn other combat skills.

You're shooting  down your own argument. So the timid Liara, who is shy around others and has no experience with humans was more likely to learn all her combat skills from Shepard than her mother, who would logically be one of the few people she is comfortable with. And she mentioned that she was more than good enough to defend herself from pirates and such while on her travels/digs.

Absolutely. Being timid doesn't mean you can't be brave. Shepard is far more likely to give her a push in the right direction than Benezia would be.

Why would Benezia not?

[CynicalShep]

David7204 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Given Liara's timid disposition, lack of dialogue concerning any training, level of skill, and job as an archeologist before meeting Shepard, the second explanation is far more likely.

Shepard was probably not continually busy. A great deal of time would likely canonically be spent simply traveling to system to system or completely tasks not relevent to Shepard. Such as refueling and restocking and maitenence. Also, even if Shepard is not a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are, and they both seem like they would be willing to lend a hand. Plus, all asari learn biotics. Not all of them learn other combat skills.

You're shooting  down your own argument. So the timid Liara, who is shy around others and has no experience with humans was more likely to learn all her combat skills from Shepard than her mother, who would logically be one of the few people she is comfortable with. And she mentioned that she was more than good enough to defend herself from pirates and such while on her travels/digs.

Absolutely. Being timid doesn't mean you can't be brave. Shepard is far more likely to give her a push in the right direction than Benezia would be.

How do you figure?

[Sir DeLoria]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Every Quarian is in top physical condition and she was trained in CQC and small arms weapons since she was a teen

Source?

Like Shep, she also has numerous tech implants

Source? The closest to that in the games is that some people speculate that the quarians might be partial cyborgs because their faces are hidden, and by the same logic you would have to accept that George W Bush

She talks about her weapons training in ME1. If you forget the hug during her loyalty mission, she mentions her CQC training aboard the Flotilla. The codex mentions and a few multiplayer descriptions talk about Quarian physical training. Harbinger talks in ME2 about how Quarians are difficult to harvest due to numerous tech implants and amps(among other things). The codex also mentions Quarian heavy usage of tech implants and modifications. If you want to speculate, Tali's throat tattoos look as if they mark tech implants.

[David7204]

People rarely need a comforting hand to better themselves. They don't need their mothers. They need a push. They need high expectations. They need confidence. They need someone like Shepard.

[o Ventus]

CynicalShep wrote...

How do you figure?

Shepard is a career soldier, having spent at least 11 years in the Alliance prior to ME1. We don't know much about any combat experience from Benezia, do we?

If not Benezia, Shepard would be the next logical answer.

[CronoDragoon]

dreamgazer wrote...
I care.

Well, I might, if I could remember what the hell we were talking about.

Was their martial arts training involved for the TVTropes' "edit wars"? 

Clearly their edit wars experience aided in their martial arts training.

[CynicalShep]

o Ventus wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

How do you figure?

Shepard is a career soldier, having spent at least 11 years in the Alliance prior to ME1. We don't know much about any combat experience from Benezia, do we?

If not Benezia, Shepard would be the next logical answer.

I recall Benezia being a pain with her biotics in ME, Shiala being a friend of Liara and Liara being quite able to cope with pirates and mercs in her travels prior to meeting Shepard. Besides, Shepard spent 11 years as a career soldier, Wrex is a veteran, Garrus is a cop, Kaidan and Ashley have had training as well. You really think that Liara caught up with them in a few months?

[AlexMBrennan]

She talks about her weapons training in ME1. If you forget the hug during her loyalty mission, she mentions her CQC training aboard the Flotilla.

And from that you conclude that every quarian is in top physical condition? It would just take one obese quarian (among 17 million) for that claim to be false.

[KaiserShep]

An obese Quarian? Haven't you heard of mass effect gastric banding? Impossibru, good sir.

[The Heretic of Time]

Liara is 106 years old. That gave her plenty of time to develop her biotics and at least get some basic training in combat, which she did according to herself. Her mother Benezia thought her self-defense and Liara said she was always quite capable of defending herself against pirates and looters.

Liara was almost always alone prior to her adventures with Shepard.
Pirates and looters always come in groups.
Thus Liara was capable of taking out entire groups of pirates by herself before she knew Shepard.
Thus she didn't get her skills from Shepard.


Shepard is a military commander, not a mentor.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 20 août 2013 - 04:57 .

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The geth never get upgraded in my playthroughs, so I honestly wouldn't know about that, nor do I care.

Destroying the geth before they reach personhood from that upgrade isn't evil, it's pragmatic.

It's utterly, needlessly evil, as any unnecessary destruction of sapient beings is.

Who are you to judge? I really dislike the way you see your moral and philosophical views as the norm. You have an opinion and others have theirs, you seem to have a hard time accepting that even you're not always right.

There are things I'll equivocate on and debate the moral philosophy of on an equal basis, such as the Balak/Fist choices. This is not one of them. I'll be damned before I give an inch to anyone who claims that some people are more equal than others.

Isn't that what your doing right now, though?

[silverexile17s]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Which is idiocy, because they weren't rabid; they just didn't have a wide enough base of experience and knowledge to understand that not all quarians were dangerous.

The geth understood perfectly fine that not all quarians were dangerous, yet they kept killing them on sight anyway, because according to their own calculations, the probability of a quarian to be hostile towards them was significantly higher than the probability of a quarian not being hostile to them. The geth lack morality and moral values, and strictly base their judgement on probabilities, calculations and math.

So in short: The geth know not all quarians are dangerous, they simply don't give a damn.

This is exactly why the geth are dangerous. They lack morality and emotions. Without a moral compass and without emotions, the geth are unpredictable and are capable of making drastic decisions that are both highly immoral and very dangerous (dangerous for us organics that is).

Right -- and it was that exact line of thinking that panicked the quarians into attacking them in the first place -- they didn't want to trust their lives to a race that operated soley on mathmatics and cold calculus. Was their response too far? Yeah, I think so. But I sure as hell can't blame them for being scared of what the geth could do without inhibitions.

[Nashtalia]

Seboist wrote...

Playing Paragon does come to bite you in the ass sometimes! LIke how you get 10 less war asset points if you destroyed the collector base!

in honesty, the positive i can say about giving The Collector base to The Illusive Man...is pretty much giving him a "Death" in a hibrination thing, given when The Illusive Man does mess with The Collector tech it not only strenghtness his assult troops but in the end it will poision him [so-to-say].

at least how i would see it about

[Cainhurst Crow]

Necromancer! Raising the dead is an affront to the mods.

[ubermensch007]

David7204 wrote...

Whatever the Council did 300 years ago is zero reflection on the asari.

@David7204 I take it you've never heard the expression: "Your chickens have come home to roost." 

And if that's your position, the same should apply (more so) to the quarians of the 22nd Century. No quarian alive today had anything to do with the creation of the Geth or the events of the Morning War, yet virtually the entire "galactic community" treats them as if they are personally responsible for all the geth do.  Tali and her people are innocent and blameless in this case. But I suppose the Citadel species believe "The sins of the fathers shall (must) be visited upon the son."

[ubermensch007]

Br3ad wrote...

The quarians were never that powerful and only gained a large fleet because their entire race had to live in space.

By the way, the hanar, the volus, and the elcor all have embassies. They are not that powerful without the turians' armies.

@Br3ad  Err...  If the quarians have the Largest Fleet in the Galaxy 300 years after they lost the The Morning War, all thier colonies and space stations (Heretic Station was once there's as well) then one can only imagine and speculate as to how formidable they were and what thier resources, fleet strength and such were like at the apex of thier civilization. Pre- Morning War.

The quarians are now an endangered species, yet they still are a forced to be reckoned with. While the former saviors of the galaxy the krogan: have been completely de-militarized.

[ubermensch007]

David7204 wrote...

And why is it sick?

I say what EDI did is sick, well let me put it this way: EDI was just being true to its nature. Like the age old Folktale of "The Scorpion and the Turtle."  In truth EDI is really sort of a synthetic version of the Goa'uld of Stargate SG-1. Which are an intelligent alien parasite that takes up residents in a host and takes control of its mind and nervous system and improves its physical performance.

EDI does the same damn thing for the Normandy. The Enhanced Defense Intelligence, is also not that different from the alien symbiote that enhanced Spider-Man's abilities. EDI is a performance enhancing drug with a personality and will of its own. I like EDI well enough, but on more than one occasion in Mass Effect 3, I wanted to say, "Get that thing off my ship!"

[The Night Mammoth]

ubermensch007 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

And why is it sick?

I say what EDI did is sick, well let me put it this way: EDI was just being true to its nature. Like the age old Folktale of "The Scorpion and the Turtle."  In truth EDI is really sort of a synthetic version of the Goa'uld of Stargate SG-1. Which are an intelligent alien parasite that takes up residents in a host and takes control of its mind and nervous system and improves its physical performance.

EDI does the same damn thing for the Normandy.

The Normandy doesn't have a mind of its own that EDI is taking control of. She is the Normandy, not a parasite living in it, she's not forcibly manipulating another entity like the Goa'uld do.

The Enhanced Defense Intelligence, is also not that different from the alien symbiote that enhanced Spider-Man's abilities. EDI is a performance enhancing drug with a personality and will of its own.

PED's simply enhance a person's abilities, what person is EDI enhancing? The Normandy doesn't have a mind of its own.

I like EDI well enough, but on more than one occasion in Mass Effect 3, I wanted to say, "Get that thing off my ship!"

You would have died if you had. 

[ubermensch007]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

And why is it sick?

I say what EDI did is sick, well let me put it this way: EDI was just being true to its nature. Like the age old Folktale of "The Scorpion and the Turtle."  In truth EDI is really sort of a synthetic version of the Goa'uld of Stargate SG-1. Which are an intelligent alien parasite that takes up residents in a host and takes control of its mind and nervous system and improves its physical performance.

EDI does the same damn thing for the Normandy.

The Normandy doesn't have a mind of its own that EDI is taking control of. She is the Normandy, not a parasite living in it, she's not forcibly manipulating another entity like the Goa'uld do.

The Enhanced Defense Intelligence, is also not that different from the alien symbiote that enhanced Spider-Man's abilities. EDI is a performance enhancing drug with a personality and will of its own.

PED's simply enhance a person's abilities, what person is EDI enhancing? The Normandy doesn't have a mind of its own.

I like EDI well enough, but on more than one occasion in Mass Effect 3, I wanted to say, "Get that thing off my ship!"

You would have died if you had. 

How do you figure that?  Are you saying EDI would have put up a fight? I seem to recall Commander Shepard kicking her synthetic ass at the Luna base in 2183 and even Clone Shepard shut EDI down with very little difficulty during the Citadel DLC. I must admit I was surprised to see EDI disabled so easily. But the clone did have the element of surprise on its side.

EDI is powerful and useful, it has proven its value to the Normandy time and time again. Except in 2186 where EDI contributes next to nothing whatsoever to the war effort and has no real plot relevance to speak of. Well it did sync all the quarian vessels to the targeting laser that Admiral Daro Xen created, which helped Commander Shepard defeat the Reaper Destroyer on Rannoch. So that's something at least. 

I want to get EDI off the ship every now and then because its shows itself to be more and more of a Wildcard. You never know what's it going to say or do next. It was designed to do a very specific thing and now its just all over the place. Joker is not exactly my favorite crewmate either. He's essentially an idolater. I know, that's not a word you hear much in modern times. His idolatry got Shepard killed in the 1st place. And it doesn't seem like he has less of an attachment to the Normandy now. No, in fact he seems to have become more devoted to the ship than ever.If Joker and EDI want to date that's thier buisness. I will drop them both off at the Citadel.

P.S. Now don't get me wrong I get why Joker is so enamored with the ship. Given his physical condition and how adept of a pilot he is. The Normandy is as his muse and instrument. It allows him to truly express himself. I get that. But a great ship can be rebuilt. A great leader (like Commander Shepard) is not so easiley replaced. Humans rate in my eyes at least as a far greater resource than technology.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 23 août 2013 - 08:43 .

[The Night Mammoth]

ubermensch007 wrote...

How do you figure that?  Are you saying EDI would have put up a fight? I seem to recall Commander Shepard kicking her synthetic ass at the Luna base in 2183 and even Clone Shepard shut EDI down with very little difficulty during the Citadel DLC. I must admit I was surprised to see EDI disabled so easily. But the clone did have the element of surprise on its side.

If EDI were kicked off the ship, either the Normandy would have been destroyed by Reapers because it wouldn't have any stealth capabilities, or Shepard would have died when Cerberus vented the hanger bay during the attack on Cronos station.

EDI is powerful and useful, it has proven its value to the Normandy time and time again. Except in 2186 where EDI contributes next to nothing whatsoever to the war effort and has no real plot relevance to speak of. Well it did sync all the quarian vessels to the targeting laser that Admiral Daro Xen created, which helped Commander Shepard defeat the Reaper Destroyer on Rannoch. So that's something at least. 

How much is EDI supposed to have contributed to the war effort? Considering that she has no resources of her own and her only ability to affect the war is through flying the Normandy and helping Shepard's missions (which she does numerous times). The only squadmate who contributes more is Liara, and she's the Shadow Broker. 

As for plot relevance, well, there aren't that many characters at all that are really relevant to the plot. 

I want to get EDI off the ship every now and then because its shows itself to be more and more of a Wildcard. You never know what's it going to say or do next. It was designed to do a very specific thing and now its just all over the place.

What specific thing was she designed to do? What things has she done that are particularly wild? Taking control of Dr. Eva's body is the only thing I can think of. 

Also, regardless of whether she was designed for one thing or another, she's not a tool, or a mindless robot. She has a personality, individuality, autonomy. Constraining her would be akin to slavery. 

Joker is not exactly my favorite crewmate either. He's essentially an idolater. I know, that's not a word you hear much in modern times. His idolatry got Shepard killed in the 1st place. And it doesn't seem like he has less of an attachment to the Normandy now. No, in fact he seems to have become more devoted to the ship than ever.If Joker and EDI want to date that's thier buisness. I will drop them both off at the Citadel.

Or just tell them not to, and they wont. Not that any relationship they has is detrimental to anything, so it would be a bit pointless. 

P.S. Now don't get me wrong I get why Joker is so enamored with the ship. Given his physical condition and how adept of a pilot he is. The Normandy is as his muse and instrument. It allows him to truly express himself. I get that. But a great ship can be rebuilt. A great leader (like Commander Shepard) is not so easiley replaced. Humans rate in my eyes at least as a far greater resource than technology.

EDI cannot be rebuilt. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 23 août 2013 - 09:31 .