1007 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

That's nice. Again, I would suggest you go find a story that has themes about how heroes must sacrifice their mind, morals, and humanity, or else they're just 'lucky.'  Mass Effect is not that story.

Modifié par David7204, 17 août 2013 - 01:27 .

[Bionuts]

Mass Effect is EXACTLY that story. Unless your Paragon Shepard is the biggest sociopath that ever lived, of course.

Shepard is constantly sacrificing herself for others even unto the very end. She sacrifices her humanity and morals to work for a terrorist organization for the greater good. Shepard sacrifices her morals and her humanity in Arrival.

Did you not play Mass Effect 3? Shepard was having lucid nightmares about a damn kid he didn't know, was hearing whispers, doubting herself, and losing herself.

The very end of Mass Effect 3 is the culmination of hundreds of sacrifices from a woman who had the will, ability, and courage to get there. Her body burned, flailing around, and believing a talking kid ghost she has clearly come this () close to losing her mind.

[David7204]

If you really believe that then why are you complaining to me? It sounds like the game has given you exactly what you want.

Modifié par David7204, 17 août 2013 - 01:39 .

[Bionuts]

There's no reason to type further. I have a video game to play, which is more enjoyable besides.

[Arcian]

David7204 wrote...

That's nice. Am I holding up a gun to your head and forcing you to appreciate heroism? Not at all. 99% of fiction doesn't deal with heroism, so you have plenty of content to choose from. Mass Effect does. If you think it's stupid and childish, that's a shame. I would suggest you find something else to occupy your time with.

You know what that is?

David7204 wrote...

That's nice. Again, I would suggest you go find a story that has themes about how heroes must sacrifice their mind, morals, and humanity, or else they're just 'lucky.'  Mass Effect is not that story. 

Neither is Pacific Rim. In fact, if any work of fiction does your definition of heroism justice, it's Pacific Rim. But I bet you hate that movie, if you've even deigned to see it. Which I doubt.

Modifié par Arcian, 17 août 2013 - 01:44 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

That's nice. Am I holding up a gun to your head and forcing you to appreciate heroism? Not at all. 99% of fiction doesn't deal with heroism, so you have plenty of content to choose from. Mass Effect does. If you think it's stupid and childish, that's a shame. I would suggest you find something else to occupy your time with.

Ah David, trying to forcing his Mass Effect heroism on others

[chemiclord]

We'd love to try and appreciate your brand of heroism...

... but it'd be nice to know what that IS.

Maybe it's on one of those spreadsheets you have.

[AlanC9]

I think it's got something to do with the hero always being right, or something.

[dreamgazer]

I'm sorry, were you guys talking about something?

[David7204]

It's pretty ridiculous that I get confronted with this kind of hostility for arguing that heroism should be meaningful for a small fraction of stories. The lack of which is the primary reason the endings are despised in the first place.

Modifié par David7204, 17 août 2013 - 02:39 .

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

It's pretty ridiculous that I get confronted with this kind of hostility for arguing that heroism should be meaningful for a small fraction of stories. The lack of which is the primary reason the endings are despised in the first place.

Heroism is "meaningful" in several different shapes, sizes, and colors---not just paragon blue. 

[David7204]

That's true. I wouldn't be happy about Shepard dying in a 'perfect' Renegade playthrough either. Although that's much more difficult to define.

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

The lack of which is the primary reason the endings are despised in the first place.

For you, maybe. The lack of "heroism" is perfectl acceptable for me. It makes RP'ing Shepard post-ending hat much more interesting. If he were a white-knight paragon or a borderline psychopath renegade, that would be boring.

[David7204]

Really? It would be perfectly acceptable for you for the Reapers to win and every single character to die no matter what you've done in the past three games?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Really? It would be perfectly acceptable for you for the Reapers to win and every single character to die no matter what you've done in the past three games?

No. But it would be perfectly acceptable for him to not be a 'meaningful hero' while stopping the Reapers.

[Bionuts]

You remiss in reading what people are saying.

You argue for "heroism". Nobody is against "heroism".

However, being put into situations that require little sacrifice is not the epitome of heroism. That's luck. Sometimes heroes are put into situations where they have to make big sacrifices. This is where true heroes are separated from the self-righteous batmans of the world.

Sacrifice is heroism to me. Luck is heroism to you I guess.

[David7204]

That is utter, absolute nonsense. Even in the absolute best scenario, a perfect playthrough would involve half of the entire galaxy destroyed, trillions dead, several important characters gone, and every single character facing very serious trauma.

The mere fact that Shepard survives in the best case scenario does not turn all of Shepard's triumphs into luck. That is just completely stupid and insulting. It is utterly beyond stupid and insulting to suggest that doesn't qualify as sacrifice.

Modifié par David7204, 17 août 2013 - 02:54 .

[Arcian]

Seriously, David, I want to know what you think of Pacific Rim.

[Steelcan]

The endings suck because they aren't heroic...... Thank god you have it all figured out. Why do we even bother persisting in our delusions? Hallelujah the answers are known at last

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Really? It would be perfectly acceptable for you for the Reapers to win and every single character to die no matter what you've done in the past three games?

No. But it would be perfectly acceptable for him to not be a 'meaningful hero' while stopping the Reapers.

Then on what basis does Shepard 'earn' a defeat of the Reapers?

[AresKeith]

Arcian wrote...

Seriously, David, I want to know what you think of Pacific Rim.

I want him to play DA:O and Last of Us first 

[dreamgazer]

I thought the ending was great because of sacrifice, or so I've been told.

(sigh) My poor, poor brain.

[Bionuts]

I'm not talking about Shepard. Have you forgotten the post where I talked about her sacrifices?

I'm saying that to many people, heroes are people that sacrifice themselves for others. Sometimes they sacrifice their morality (for Cerberus, Arrival). Sometimes they sacrifice their lives (for Joker, ME3 ending. Sometimes they sacrifice their own humanity (whole of ME).

No matter what color you pick, Shepard is no "Paragon". She's always a renegade.

[David7204]

That's super. You're very clearly in the minority, aren't you?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

That is utter, absolute nonsense. Even in the absolute best scenario, a perfect playthrough would involve half of the entire galaxy destroyed, trillions dead, several important characters gone, and every single character facing very serious trauma.

The mere fact that Shepard survives in the best case scenario does not turn all of Shepard's triumphs into luck. That is just completely stupid and insulting. 

I find it insulting that you try to tell me how I and others feel constantly. Shepard got lucky. Skill and strength only go so far against skyscraper sized robots. The winds of fortune were definitely blowing in favor of Shepard.