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[Wynterdust]

The ME1 bonus disc had most of the species' concept arts. There was one in the quarian section that vaguely showed Tali's face (albeit some was still hidden so you only really see skin tone, eyes and nose). They probably had a basic idea while making ME1 but never really went into detail about the appearance until ME3.

[Sir DeLoria]

Wynterdust wrote...

The ME1 bonus disc had most of the species' concept arts. There was one in the quarian section that vaguely showed Tali's face (albeit some was still hidden so you only really see skin tone, eyes and nose). They probably had a basic idea while making ME1 but never really went into detail about the appearance until ME3.

Her limited edition character disk from ME2 also shows a clear, almost even more human looking concept art for her face.

[Wynterdust]

Hmm, I never got the limited edition of ME2 so I've never seen that one (unless I've seen it on here somewhere and not known it.) Is there a link somewhere?

[Br3admax]

What's the big deal, you guys only love her personality anyway. Nothing else matters.

[Han Shot First]

Necanor wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
Hold your horses sport...Tali never had a canon appearance until Mass Effect 3.

If you are referring to the passage from the books that described an unmasked Quarian, it was deliberately vague to give Bioware room to potentially design Tali in any number of directions. That passage was also deliberately misinterpreted by the faction among Tali's fans who wanted a very human-looking reveal, rather than one that looked alien.
The unmasked Quarian was described as having humanoid facial features, an endoskeleton, lips, teeth, and two eyes with eyelids. How on Earth that got distorted by some fans to mean "Tali looks human" still baffles me, as all of those features are also present on the Drell and Asari, two humanoid species that no one would mistake for being human.

That Tali ended up looking almost exactly like a human in ME3 was a decision that was made during the development of Mass Effect 3, not prior.

Combine the info from the extended codex and Ascension with what we see through her mask in ME1 and 2. You can clearly see a concave humanoid face with a pointed nose, fair skin and cat-like white glowing eyes with eyebrows. The only things we don't see are the mouth and scalp. That matches the pic very well.

Of course what you see through the mask matches the pic. Any picture that displayed humanoid facial features was going to match what you saw beneath the mask, because it would have the same bone structure.

As an example, here are some fan concepts that also would have been a match for the features you can glimpse beneath the mask but which differ from Bioware's reveal and from each other:

[Br3admax]

Most of those don't even match the face's shape, a good number look about forty, and all of them aren't even remotely likeable to a lot of people. Characters aren't made for the fractions. They are made to appeal to most people. Tali looking like an alien's grandmother was most likely not the desired result.

[Wynterdust]

It says something really when some fan arts look better than the canon appearance we got. The third one and the first one there I've always thought are two of the best ones.

[Sir DeLoria]

Wynterdust wrote...

It says something really when some fan arts look better than the canon appearance we got. The third one and the first one there I've always thought are two of the best ones.

The fanarts are really well done, but if they had given Tali any of these looks, a lot of people would be very unhappy, including me:P

[Wynterdust]

Indeed. Although I personally wouldn't have minded some of them, I think they should never have revealed it at all and left it to peoples imagination.

[Han Shot First]

Br3ad wrote...

Most of those don't even match the face's shape, a good number look about forty, and all of them aren't even remotely likeable to a lot of people. Characters aren't made for the fractions. They are made to appeal to most people. Tali looking like an alien's grandmother was most likely not the desired result.

You entirely missed the point.

I wasn't arguing for any of those concepts being superior to the one rolled out by Bioware. I was pointing out that all of the fanart concepts have a humanoid facial bone structure, just like the placeholder face beneath the mask and just like the photoshopped photo that was used for the Tali reveal.
 
In other words, the placeholder face beneath the mask is not evidence that Bioware planned all along for Tali to look like a barely edited photo of Hammasa Kohistani.

[Br3admax]

No, you missed the point that Tali was meant human like all along.

[AlanC9]

Br3ad wrote...

No, you missed the point that Tali was meant human like all along.

You think Bio actually had decided what Tali was going to look like al the way back to ME1?

Really?

[Br3admax]

 No but I doubt that this was on their mind.

[Sir DeLoria]

AlanC9 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

No, you missed the point that Tali was meant human like all along.

You think Bio actually had decided what Tali was going to look like al the way back to ME1?

Really?

At least partially.

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

 No but I doubt that this was on their mind.

I actually see nothing wrong with that.

[Br3admax]

You aren't the entire ME fanbase.

[Xilizhra]

But... I don't get the problem. She's both clearly different and still attractive; a little too humanoid to be totally realistic, but we've already got the asari, so it doesn't matter that much.

[Wynterdust]

Struggling to see the problem with that one as well. The only ones there that don't look particularly good are the second one and the bottom one. But yeah, it is just personal taste.

[Br3admax]

People are fickle, males especially. To the average person, the veiny complexion can be off putting.

[Han Shot First]

Br3ad wrote...

No, you missed the point that Tali was meant human like all along.

Except she wasn't.

Straight from the developer blog linked to on the first page that you apparently didn't read:

"The debate about whether or not to reveal Tali’s face was another one that lasted a long time. Versions of her were being worked on fairly often. These were three that I thought worked in their own way. Personally, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to push players to the edge. Tali was like a pen pal, or a friend you’ve only ever known online. Depending on how attached to her a player was, how well could they handle her appearance challenging their expectations? If she looked a little too alien, just a little too repellant, would they still feel the same way about her? Or did her personality and your history together trump appearances? It’s an interesting area to explore and I hope we can find other ways to ask that question."

That is then followed by these three images:









As you can see from reading the above paragraph, those concepts were from a time when players were already attached to Tali and when it was being debated whether or not to reveal her face. In other words, either during the development of Mass Effect 2 or 3. Obviously by at least ME2 they had not yet settled on an appearance that was near identical to humans. It was only one concept out of the three that were posted.

Matt Rhodes then follows the above three images with this:



"To me, this has always been (and always will be) Tali. This was drawn during ME1 when she was first being designed, and when her appearance under the mask wasn’t a big deal yet."


So as of the time Mass Effect 1 was being developed they had not yet settled on a very near-human appearance, and in fact were considering something a bit more alien.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 août 2013 - 01:11 .

[Br3admax]

Well while I respect your evidence given and your opinion, denying newer material for older material is just ignoring the facts. So you don't like the face. Big deal. It only really matters if you romance her.

[CynicalShep]

But her great personality, surely?

[Dean_the_Young]

Br3ad wrote...

Well while I respect your evidence given and your opinion, denying newer material for older material is just ignoring the facts.

This would be true... if you weren't in a disucssion about the original intent in the past. In which case, older material and facts reflecting the views at the time do trump later developments. ME3 establishes what the outcome was coming out, not what the intent was going in.

That would be a retroactive justification fallacy.

So you don't like the face. Big deal. It only really matters if you romance her.

Where did he say that he didn't like the face?

[Br3admax]

I'm not talking about that, I mean the quote, which admittedly I didn't see quotation marks around. As for the face, I've seen the same people post the same things to know a little about their opinions, even though it was a general statement.

[Br3admax]

CynicalShep wrote...

But her great personality, surely?

You never get with the groupies.