883 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

leaguer of one wrote...

1. DAO and DA2 animation was no where near realistic and no one complained...Till a harpoon was put it.

Excuse me, but loads and loads of people complained about DA2 animation.  And quite a few about DA:O

[leaguer of one]

andar91 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...




1) he presses a control pad button while manipulating a stickand misses by a mile, seems manual to me given that

2) DA2 gameplay

1.You never played DRAGON AGE on consoles have you?
2....Which is just a faster version of DAO's combat.

While I did not hate DA2 and agree with many of your points, I think saying DA2's combat was just faster is a bit of an over-simplification. The wave mechanics were a big difference, abilities were very different (for the better, I think), and encounter design was no where near as varied, though Origins wasn't as far off from DA2's design (imo) than some people seem to think it was.

Edit: Ooops, sorry for the double post.

Agreed, DAO'S tactics were about misdrection and picking off. DA2's tactics were about crowd control and setups.

[leaguer of one]

Wulfram wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1. DAO and DA2 animation was no where near realistic and no one complained...Till a harpoon was put it.

Excuse me, but loads and loads of people complained about DA2 animation.  And quite a few about DA:O

They complain about the speed and how the animations were similar to an action game even though it was the same point and click auto attack game play.
I was minior then and it's minior now.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 18 août 2013 - 05:38 .

[DarthLaxian]

Wintermist wrote...

Wow, this was really not the game I thought it would be. It's an arcade fighter game with a story?

Sorry, so far this is definately not a game I will buy. And I'd like to add I'm really disappointed. "We've listened to the community"...? Which community was that? The community that stayed with you after Dragon Age 2?

while i would not go that far, i hate that they go down the "The Witcher/The Kingdoms of Amalure etc."-Road (those games IMHO don't need a party etc.) - not that i hated those games (i own all of them, and i like them).

It just isn't Dragon Age for me, Dragon Age is Party-Management (and Tactic-Screens!) and all of that

greetings LAX
ps: I don't see any DA:O elements in that video (and they wanted to bring those back!) - hell even saying there are DA2 elements is far fetched when seeing that IMHO!

[leaguer of one]

DarthLaxian wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

Wow, this was really not the game I thought it would be. It's an arcade fighter game with a story?

Sorry, so far this is definately not a game I will buy. And I'd like to add I'm really disappointed. "We've listened to the community"...? Which community was that? The community that stayed with you after Dragon Age 2?

while i would not go that far, i hate that they go down the "The Witcher/The Kingdoms of Amalure etc."-Road (those games IMHO don't need a party etc.) - not that i hated those games (i own all of them, and i like them).

It just isn't Dragon Age for me, Dragon Age is Party-Management (and Tactic-Screens!) and all of that

greetings LAX
ps: I don't see any DA:O elements in that video (and they wanted to bring those back!) - hell even saying there are DA2 elements is far fetched when seeing that IMHO!

But they have not show party management yet so we can't say anything about it yet.

[andar91]

DarthLaxian wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

Wow, this was really not the game I thought it would be. It's an arcade fighter game with a story?

Sorry, so far this is definately not a game I will buy. And I'd like to add I'm really disappointed. "We've listened to the community"...? Which community was that? The community that stayed with you after Dragon Age 2?

while i would not go that far, i hate that they go down the "The Witcher/The Kingdoms of Amalure etc."-Road (those games IMHO don't need a party etc.) - not that i hated those games (i own all of them, and i like them).

It just isn't Dragon Age for me, Dragon Age is Party-Management (and Tactic-Screens!) and all of that

greetings LAX
ps: I don't see any DA:O elements in that video (and they wanted to bring those back!) - hell even saying there are DA2 elements is far fetched when seeing that IMHO!

Laidlaw specifically stated he wanted the "fully-controlled party" to be the central part of combat. I highly doubt we will be able to effectively play without a party, unless the game is on the easiest setting or something.

Granted, they have now actually shown that yet. However, if you watch in the combat video where the test field (with the green enemies) is filled with the rogue, archer, and shielded gladiator, I think we get a brief glimpse of how multiple enemies can make combat trickier.

[Am1vf]

mannitt wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Can we have an RPG without 1 person engines of death that survive millions of encounters and kill thousands of people? Because I would totally play that.

Or you could be careful and direct the battle from somewhere that isn't the frontlines. Not every fight has to be a battle either, one thing that bothers me about the Dragon Age series is how every gang of thughs has to be a huge army of highly specialized commandos, because it's the only way they can be a threat to our superman.

So you want a 4x or RTS type game, but with graphics and effects on par with DA, Dark Souls, Witcher, etc..?
Also with story and RPG elements? This sounds very expensive. Also seems far to niche.
I am not as much a fan of the flashy action aspect that most AAA games are going. As was mentioned at one point, there is a little more trend to God of War-esque types of action. I don't think DA ever got to that point though. I also disagree with the comparison of anime-like combat for DA2, that was mentioned somewhere. It definitely was similar to some Anime. But that's like saying the music was too much like rock and roll. There are so many different types. Just like in Anime. There is so many different types and genres. I love (hate really. Ok not hate, but it pisses me off. Well it really bugs me.) how so many people equate all Anime to Dragon Ball Z.

I don't think I ever mentioned graphics... the rest of that description sound pretty sweet. Keep in mind that I also mentioned that it would be fine not to see any battles in said hypothetical game, but if there are battles I think it makes sense that we can somehow plan them.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 18 août 2013 - 05:48 .

[andar91]

Filament wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

Filament wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered, but I'm a bit concerned about what happens to the party members I'm not controlling. Will their AIs handle the twitch elements? That shielded foe is easy enough for me to handle, but will AI-controlled companions just keep bashing the shield?

How did they handle the genlock alphas in Legacy? Not particularly well, but they had the "backstab" feature they could use.

In my game? They either got out of the way or they died. I couldn't actively take control of each and run them out of the way more than one at a time (playing on console), so the one in the dwarven ruins has an unhealthy habit of running over whoever gets selected last and killing them. The one on the bridge wasn't really a problem, seemed to die quicker. I really didn't like them, because they basically boiled gameplay down to dodge/strike from behind, which is exactly what I don't want. That's why if we're going to have a heavy shield wall type enemy this time (as opposed to a versatile enemy shield user, front line soldier type, which I'd prefer), I'm glad we have the harpoon, and hopefully there will be more ways to deal with them head on. I don't really want to be treating them like rolling boulders. I want them to act as protection for the other units, to march in line and force the player characters to deal with them the way you'd really deal with a shield using enemy combatant in hand to hand combat. They're not going to show you their exposed back.

That's an important issue.

I think the biggest issue this illustrates is that you console gamers need better controls. I think I understand why Jimmy doesn't like these elements that specifically rely on movement, or is prone to see them as 'twitchy' or anti-party gameplay, when by default you can only move them one at a time. On the PC it's trivially easy to move multiple characters out of the way of a genlock or ogre's path at once.

But I am also glad there seem to be multiple ways to approach these shield enemies.

Well, I played Legacy on console, and here's how I handled it.

I paused with the radial menu and took stock of the situation. I moved my characters in thier shield rush path by using the point and move command in the menu (it's easily visible, and it allows you to point, click, and have them move after unpausing just like on the PC, including the whole party if you select the whole party (by pressing R1 and L1 at the same time)). I would try to lure it in a certain direction or lock it down (nearly impossible) with spells while a character(s) maneuvered behind it. My Hawke's Spirit Bolt was particularly effective, especially if it was disoriented.

It might not be as obvious as on PC, but there ARE ways to move effectively by giving commands without manual control. If I only needed to move one character for a sec, I might as well do it manually though. It's complex situations like the one above where I pulled out the radial menu (which I hope returns in Inquisition).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To be honest, saying that you don't like the faster paced gameplay because while you enjoy our games, when the combat is fast paced you're more prone to making mistakes which ultimately makes the game less enjoyable is still pretty darn well reasoned feedback.

Speaking from a personal bias, but I can understand that concern much better, and do a better job of concluding "Other people could be in the same position as him" as opposed to strict adherence to in game world explanations which I may find myself wondering "Is this just Sylvius' special brand of crazy?"

I'm always worried that my personal preferences are just my own special brand of crazy, which is why I don't rely on them to be persuasive.

But I'll keep that in mind.

Sounds like a viable approach. You've done something to make encounters with those guys easier. I honestly wouldn't want to take that away from you. Of course, as encounter designers I think it'd be fun if they tossed some challenges that way so that their flanks are maybe better protected from time to time. And sometimes an encounter will just be set up that such flanking won't really be possible (i.e. on a castle wall or something).

Good news.

Though your more cavalier approach to party members DOES make me think of something that I should email myself as a reminder (not combat related, but exploration related. Our levels are much larger, and Frostbite is awesome with streaming. We may need to incorporate some sort of tether to make sure people don't go TOO far away or you'd blow memory for sure. I don't know how far away that would be, however).

Makes sense.  I can accept genuine technical limitations.

[leaguer of one]

Filament wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

Filament wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered, but I'm a bit concerned about what happens to the party members I'm not controlling. Will their AIs handle the twitch elements? That shielded foe is easy enough for me to handle, but will AI-controlled companions just keep bashing the shield?

How did they handle the genlock alphas in Legacy? Not particularly well, but they had the "backstab" feature they could use.

In my game? They either got out of the way or they died. I couldn't actively take control of each and run them out of the way more than one at a time (playing on console), so the one in the dwarven ruins has an unhealthy habit of running over whoever gets selected last and killing them. The one on the bridge wasn't really a problem, seemed to die quicker. I really didn't like them, because they basically boiled gameplay down to dodge/strike from behind, which is exactly what I don't want. That's why if we're going to have a heavy shield wall type enemy this time (as opposed to a versatile enemy shield user, front line soldier type, which I'd prefer), I'm glad we have the harpoon, and hopefully there will be more ways to deal with them head on. I don't really want to be treating them like rolling boulders. I want them to act as protection for the other units, to march in line and force the player characters to deal with them the way you'd really deal with a shield using enemy combatant in hand to hand combat. They're not going to show you their exposed back.

That's an important issue.

I think the biggest issue this illustrates is that you console gamers need better controls. I think I understand why Jimmy doesn't like these elements that specifically rely on movement, or is prone to see them as 'twitchy' or anti-party gameplay, when by default you can only move them one at a time. On the PC it's trivially easy to move multiple characters out of the way of a genlock or ogre's path at once.

But I am also glad there seem to be multiple ways to approach these shield enemies.

The console version of DA2 let you move charater to the full avantage of the pc version. You can move as a group and point click a character to certin location the same asn the pc version.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 18 août 2013 - 05:56 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Err, isn't magic just as much an explaination for a warrior summoning massive chains as it is a Rogue being able to turn invisible and summon animals out of thin air?

Do Warriors and Rogues have any magical power?  In-game lore says no (except for Templars)

[Wintermist]

andar91 wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

Wow, this was really not the game I thought it would be. It's an arcade fighter game with a story?

Sorry, so far this is definately not a game I will buy. And I'd like to add I'm really disappointed. "We've listened to the community"...? Which community was that? The community that stayed with you after Dragon Age 2?

Possibly the community that is made up of people with many different kinds of opinions and desires as to what they would want out of a Dragon Age game.

Ah right, so they actually picked from all those different kinds of opinions and ended up doing it the same as last time?

I think declaring "how they're doing it" is a little premature; we've barely seen gameplay, and the gameplay we have seen is one-on-one fights for demonstration purposes (and maybe tutorials) and a short clip of an actual fight, but only the very first part of it. They've said Inquisition will combine the best of both worlds.

But there was a sequence where there was multiple characters and it was basically a switch between then and the others followed you. The mage at the staircase. I can only judge on what I see. Had it looked different, I would have judged it different. But it didn't.

[Vilegrim]

[quote]leaguer of one wrote...



1. Could at least try to have realistic animations not LOL HARPOON and look I r weilding a wood cutters axe...

2., Except it clearly isn't because it has none of the properties of lightning, people who don't understand lightning, call it lightning, doesn't make them right.

3. Dragons: not common enough to ruin the game, and at least thematic LOLHARPOON: shows and integral part of the game play is going to be twitch based rule of cool action game rubbish and not thematic, seriously Kingdoms Of Amalur bomded for a reason, lets not have Kingdoms of DA

4. Not interested then. If I want a 1 on 1 sword duel..I'll go have one. (With wasters in safety kit ofc)

[/quote]1. DAO and DA2 animation was no where near realistic and no one complained...Till a harpoon was put it.
2.It's lighting. Stop trying to make it something else. Control lighting is lighting  but it controled. It have every propery of it and shocks people just the same. 

3.The game is called dragon age and it's not the only thing that can't ripe appart characters:Like orges, mabari, dragonlings, drakes, mature dragons, bears, wolves, and Wyverns.



[/quote]

1. I did about 2, a hell of a lot. 1 I gave a pass because it at least looked as if an effort had been made, and the story was strong enough to carry it for me anyway.

2. Lighntning that doesn't act like lightning isn't lightning. Simple.  It is a overpowered Tazer affect at most.

3.Yes the dragons are back...doesn't mean we have to fight them.  Ogres: should have been harder than they where, no argument,  Mabari/Wolves are warhounds, a flawed concept that was phased out of warfare for a reason: dragonling etc etc.  see the first part of this comment. Bears: can and have been hunted by people with spears and swords..very BRAVE people but still.  Wyverns.. turned up in 2, I don't like 2 (kept buying the DLC crack and regretting it, because I beliefved the 'we have listened' hype damn my lack of will power) 

[quote]leaguer of one wrote...

[quote]Vilegrim wrote...




1) he presses a control pad button while manipulating a stickand misses by a mile, seems manual to me given that

2) [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie] DA2 gameplay [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie]





[/quote]1.You never played DRAGON AGE on consoles have you?
2....Which is just a faster version of DAO's combat.

[/quote]

1) Last console game I played was Robot wars..so no.

2)Really, really wasn't: where was my isometric multiple charcter control with action queues( DA:Os queue was too short, need at least 3, preferably 6 actions stacked for preference), where have all these jump-thugs come from ruining placement and area strategy, why are people teleporting across the battlefield..etc etc etc.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 18 août 2013 - 06:03 .

[andar91]

Somebody a few pages back mentioned an advantage given to enemies hooked to a chain that they could turn against the player.

That could still happen. Josh Stiksma (I hope I spelled that right) mentioned not throwing a metal chain at a lightning-charged target. Maybe we'll experience more blowback if we hook, say, an ogre, and the ogre yanks on the chain, throwing YOU off balance. That would be kinda cool.

[Il Divo]

Vilegrim wrote...

2. Lighntning that doesn't act like lightning isn't lightning. Simple.  It is a overpowered Tazer affect at most.

Then don't call it lightning. This is what I mean about headcanon interference. Labels have meanings. If it's not going to be actual lightning, make up some completely imaginary name for it: spirit bolt, arcane bolt, etc.

[leaguer of one]

[quote]Vilegrim wrote...

[quote]leaguer of one wrote...



1. Could at least try to have realistic animations not LOL HARPOON and look I r weilding a wood cutters axe...

2., Except it clearly isn't because it has none of the properties of lightning, people who don't understand lightning, call it lightning, doesn't make them right.

3. Dragons: not common enough to ruin the game, and at least thematic LOLHARPOON: shows and integral part of the game play is going to be twitch based rule of cool action game rubbish and not thematic, seriously Kingdoms Of Amalur bomded for a reason, lets not have Kingdoms of DA

4. Not interested then. If I want a 1 on 1 sword duel..I'll go have one. (With wasters in safety kit ofc)

[/quote]1. DAO and DA2 animation was no where near realistic and no one complained...Till a harpoon was put it.
2.It's lighting. Stop trying to make it something else. Control lighting is lighting  but it controled. It have every propery of it and shocks people just the same. 

3.The game is called dragon age and it's not the only thing that can't ripe appart characters:Like orges, mabari, dragonlings, drakes, mature dragons, bears, wolves, and Wyverns.



[/quote]

1. I did about 2, a hell of a lot. 1 I gave a pass because it at least looked as if an effort had been made, and the story was strong enough to carry it for me anyway.

2. Lighntning that doesn't act like lightning isn't lightning. Simple.  It is a overpowered Tazer affect at most.

3.Yes the dragons are back...doesn't mean we have to fight them.  Ogres: should have been harder than they where, no argument,  Mabari/Wolves are warhounds, a flawed concept that was phased out of warfare for a reason: dragonling etc etc.  see the first part of this comment. Bears: can and have been hunted by people with spears and swords..very BRAVE people but still.  Wyverns.. turned up in 2, I don't like 2 (kept buying the DLC crack and regretting it, because I beliefved the 'we have listened' hype damn my lack of will power) 

[/quote]1.And with 2 is was the same point and click combat but with flashier animations.
2. They you clearly never seen a teslur coil. Wrong and wrong agein. Stop trying to make lighting not lighting.
3. The point still is that they all can ripe us apart in an instate and in game have move where they hold us and do move that attept to do that. Wolves, bears, Mabari, Drakes and wyrern can all, in game, knock us to the ground  and go for the throut. 

[Vilegrim]

Il Divo wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

2. Lighntning that doesn't act like lightning isn't lightning. Simple.  It is a overpowered Tazer affect at most.

Then don't call it lightning. This is what I mean about headcanon interference. Labels have meanings. If it's not going to be actual lightning, make up some completely imaginary name for it: spirit bolt, arcane bolt, etc.

The people in game call it lightning, doesn't make the mright if it doesn't at like it, if I rename it, nobody else would know what I was on about.

[Am1vf]

andar91 wrote...

Somebody a few pages back mentioned an advantage given to enemies hooked to a chain that they could turn against the player.

That could still happen. Josh Stiksma (I hope I spelled that right) mentioned not throwing a metal chain at a lightning-charged target. Maybe we'll experience more blowback if we hook, say, an ogre, and the ogre yanks on the chain, throwing YOU off balance. That would be kinda cool.

Agreed.

I'm thinking the chain thingy wouldn't bother me if we used some sort of device to "shoot" it. Maybe some sort of crossbow or "explosive powder" device developed by the Qunari to counter the Tevinter shields. Thowing the harpoon with the hand and expecting it to stick to the shield is what bothersr me the most I think.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 18 août 2013 - 06:07 .

[mannitt]

Am1_vf wrote...

mannitt wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Can we have an RPG without 1 person engines of death that survive millions of encounters and kill thousands of people? Because I would totally play that.

Or you could be careful and direct the battle from somewhere that isn't the frontlines. Not every fight has to be a battle either, one thing that bothers me about the Dragon Age series is how every gang of thughs has to be a huge army of highly specialized commandos, because it's the only way they can be a threat to our superman.

So you want a 4x or RTS type game, but with graphics and effects on par with DA, Dark Souls, Witcher, etc..?
Also with story and RPG elements? This sounds very expensive. Also seems far to niche.
I am not as much a fan of the flashy action aspect that most AAA games are going. As was mentioned at one point, there is a little more trend to God of War-esque types of action. I don't think DA ever got to that point though. I also disagree with the comparison of anime-like combat for DA2, that was mentioned somewhere. It definitely was similar to some Anime. But that's like saying the music was too much like rock and roll. There are so many different types. Just like in Anime. There is so many different types and genres. I love (hate really. Ok not hate, but it pisses me off. Well it really bugs me.) how so many people equate all Anime to Dragon Ball Z.

I don't think I ever mentioned graphics... the rest of that description sound pretty sweet. Keep in mind that I also mentioned that it would be fine not to see any battles in said hypothetical game, but if there are battles I think it makes sense that we can somehow plan them.

Oh then that doesn't sound too bad. I am a huge 4x fan and actually would myself love to see one with story and RPG elements. I'm not the greatest at RTS, but I try anyway. Actually planning a battle does sound cool.

I did want to add one thing about the twitch aspect of the thread. That is actually why I moved away from fighting games a long time ago. I never quite had the reflex and speed to block and jump away. I could memorize the moves like no ones business, but the that work only so well on someone who could block and jump just in time. So, I would like as few if none of these elements in DA. I love the pause. I would literally sit there before every fight and analyse the entire area and postion my character and companions in the optimal areas. Also I love tactics. I fell in love with that concept in FFXII. Of course I used them more in DA2 because there wasn't as much need for the pause, plan, and go of DA:O.

[leaguer of one]

Vilegrim wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

2. Lighntning that doesn't act like lightning isn't lightning. Simple.  It is a overpowered Tazer affect at most.

Then don't call it lightning. This is what I mean about headcanon interference. Labels have meanings. If it's not going to be actual lightning, make up some completely imaginary name for it: spirit bolt, arcane bolt, etc.

The people in game call it lightning, doesn't make the mright if it doesn't at like it, if I rename it, nobody else would know what I was on about.

But it's lighting. Just because it's controled lighting does not make it something else. That's like saying lighting from tesla coil is not lighting.

[Vilegrim]

leaguer of one wrote...


1.And with 2 is was the same point and click combat but with flashier animations.
2. They you clearly never seen a teslur coil. Wrong and wrong agein. Stop trying to make lighting not lighting.
3. The point still is that they all can ripe us apart in an instate and in game have move where they hold us and do move that attept to do that. Wolves, bears, Mabari, Drakes and wyrern can all, in game, knock us to the ground  and go for the throut. 

1. Didn't 'feel' anythigng like was over the shoulder and annoying

2.They ground themselves pretty much straight down, not after being aimed. 

3. They should have, but didn't, kill anyone not wearing a gorget, but game play has to be in their somewhere I guess and realistic 'turn up in plate or die'  has to give a little to allow mages and rogues, but only a little.

leaguer of one wrote...


But it's lighting. Just
because it's controled lighting does not make it something else. That's
like saying lighting from tesla coil is not lighting.

Except an artificial affect that doesn't have any of the properties of the natural affect it is named after isn't that affect.  Tesla coils produce Lightning, it behaves exactly like natural lightning, has the same voltage and leaps straight to earth in the same way, what mages summon doesn't do any of the above.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 18 août 2013 - 06:12 .

[leaguer of one]

Vilegrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


1.And with 2 is was the same point and click combat but with flashier animations.
2. They you clearly never seen a teslur coil. Wrong and wrong agein. Stop trying to make lighting not lighting.
3. The point still is that they all can ripe us apart in an instate and in game have move where they hold us and do move that attept to do that. Wolves, bears, Mabari, Drakes and wyrern can all, in game, knock us to the ground  and go for the throut. 

1. Didn't 'feel' anythigng like was over the shoulder and annoying

2.They ground themselves pretty much straight down, not after being aimed. 

3. They should have, but didn't, kill anyone not wearing a gorget, but game play has to be in their somewhere I guess and realistic 'turn up in plate or die'  has to give a little to allow mages and rogues, but only a little.

1. And It made no difference to the combat. You point?
2.Look up terler coils. Sorry, but Lighting can be controled. It's not like Chain lighting and rods the shot lighting did not arc and go downward.

3. The the realistic statement goes out the window.  When we have rogues disapearing in smoke clouds and Mages rain fireball we can safely say that.