883 réponses à ce sujet

[Argahawk]

IC-07 wrote...

 @Vilegrim - Amen, brother!
Well, every game has it's flaws.
We should be careful about the Witcher. People go insane here when they hear about it... 

Why ?? Witcher 2 is a good game (even with many bugs) and Witcher 3 will be even better - pre-ordered it already.

Modifié par Argahawk, 18 août 2013 - 07:04 .

[IC-07]

Argahawk wrote...

IC-07 wrote...

 @Vilegrim - Amen, brother!
Well, every game has it's flaws.
We should be careful about the Witcher. People go insane here when they hear about it... 

Why ?? Witcher 2 is a good game even with many bugs and Witcher 3 will be even better - pre-ordered it already.

No! We will activate a bomb by continuing!

[Vilegrim]

stormhit13 wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

bad comparison: Omni tools where a thing already, as wwhere forcefields..combing the two into a power blade wasn't a stretch (ME3 was a flawed game for alot of reasons, that wasn't one of them) 

in this case combat rolls and spear guns are action game tropes, the very same type of tropes that ruined 2 and they said they where moving away from.  Apparently they lied.

Why am I not surprised that you've moved away from discussing mechanics and preferences, and are now calling people incompetent liars.

I don't see me calling anyone incompetent in that, and market speech is lies, pure and simple, that is all advertising is, lies you can get away with. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Argahawk wrote...

IC-07 wrote...

 @Vilegrim - Amen, brother!
Well, every game has it's flaws.
We should be careful about the Witcher. People go insane here when they hear about it... 

Why ?? Witcher 2 is a good game (even with many bugs) and Witcher 3 will be even better - pre-ordered it already.

The terms "mysoginistic card collecting," "fixed protagonist" and "button-mashing combat" usually get thrown around pretty frequently on here when you start talking The Witcher series. 

[Il Divo]

Vilegrim wrote...

bad comparison: Omni tools where a thing already, as wwhere forcefields..combing the two into a power blade wasn't a stretch (ME3 was a flawed game for alot of reasons, that wasn't one of them) 

in this case combat rolls and spear guns are action game tropes, the very same type of tropes that ruined 2 and they said they where moving away from.  Apparently they lied.

Then you misunderstood the comparison. Ultimately, it doesn't matter which side of the debate you stood on for the omniblade. Plenty of others disputed it as either inconsistent with the lore, or simply dumb-looking (I personally didn't mind it). The point is that style-wise it fit with ME's tone.

This all still comes down to your nitpicking, while finding methods of either ignoring or circumventing DA:O's own lack of realism. Again, if Bioware was interested in realism, there would be no dual-wielding long swords period, no warrior shouts, no ghost rogue stealth, instant potion chugging, or summoning animal companions. You're interested in something which Bioware has never themselves cared about. DA:O isn't even remotely realistic, I wouldn't even say in comparison to DA2. The main thing which separates the two is one is flashy, while the other isn't.

Modifié par Il Divo, 18 août 2013 - 07:07 .

[IC-07]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Argahawk wrote...

IC-07 wrote...

 @Vilegrim - Amen, brother!
Well, every game has it's flaws.
We should be careful about the Witcher. People go insane here when they hear about it... 

Why ?? Witcher 2 is a good game (even with many bugs) and Witcher 3 will be even better - pre-ordered it already.

The terms "mysoginistic card collecting," "fixed protagonist" and "button-mashing combat" usually get thrown around pretty frequently on here when you start talking The Witcher series. 

It has begun! What have I done?!

[Vilegrim]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Argahawk wrote...

IC-07 wrote...

 @Vilegrim - Amen, brother!
Well, every game has it's flaws.
We should be careful about the Witcher. People go insane here when they hear about it... 

Why ?? Witcher 2 is a good game (even with many bugs) and Witcher 3 will be even better - pre-ordered it already.

The terms "mysoginistic card collecting," "fixed protagonist" and "button-mashing combat" usually get thrown around pretty frequently on here when you start talking The Witcher series. 

all fair criticisms.

Il Divo wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

bad
comparison: Omni tools where a thing already, as wwhere
forcefields..combing the two into a power blade wasn't a stretch (ME3
was a flawed game for alot of reasons, that wasn't one of them) 

in
this case combat rolls and spear guns are action game tropes, the very
same type of tropes that ruined 2 and they said they where moving away
from.  Apparently they lied.

Then you misunderstood
the comparison. Ultimately, it doesn't matter which side of the debate
you stood on for the omniblade. Plenty of others disputed it as either
inconsistent with the lore, or simply dumb-looking (I personally didn't
mind it). The point is that style-wise it fit with ME's tone.

This
all still comes down to your nitpicking, while finding methods of
either ignoring or circumventing DA:O's own lack of realism. Again, if
Bioware was interested in realism, there would be no dual-wielding long
swords period, no warrior shouts, no ghost rogue stealth, instant potion
chugging, or summoning animal companions. You're interested in
something which Bioware has never themselves cared about. DA:O isn't
even remotely realistic, I wouldn't even say in comparison to DA2.
The main thing which separates the two is one is flashy, while the other
isn't.

at least with the slow combat speed, and the actual movements in, well actually limited to, GW fighting and Sword and board, you had the feel of solidity and realism, and with the Isometric view you where zoomed out far enough to not notice how bad some things looked, with 2 it's all right there, in your face, and played up to the max, instead of handwaving things and underplaying them, they turned them up to 11 and rammed them down your throat, the guzzling potions and spin kicking grenades will defying gravity and teleporting was a step beyond 'walking with a bit of a shuffle and face stab build' for instance.  You want to go for cool looking cobat? Nothing looks cooler than realistic combat, maybe a touch overblown as in the film Ironclad, but you can hide the mechanics, have the protagonist evade and parry while taking damage, hell have that for everyone, make that what hitpoints represent a 'luck' or 'skill' not tied to the player, that runs out, and results in that last blow getting through and finishing the job.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 18 août 2013 - 07:17 .

[Fast Jimmy]

^

They are, not all of which I agree with (although they do apply in cases). But it's the common BSN buzz list of things to ding the series on.

[Wulfram]

The real reason why The Witcher is controversial on these forums is just because people keep coming along to post threads about how much better than DA it is.

Which unfortunately can result in a bit of snippiness even when the comparison is innocent, relevant and valid.

[badboy64]

Maybe the roll will get you out of a bind when one of dragon like creature lunges at you or the case with the harpoon could be also used to bring down a bridge the enemies are using as a firing point when the archer's are firing at you. Plus have a mage use a firestorm on them while the bridge goes down. the enemie will be using tactics just like you are to destroy them  or they destroy you.

Modifié par badboy64, 18 août 2013 - 07:25 .

[Frozenkex]

Nothing looks cooler than realistic combat, maybe a touch overblown as in the film Ironclad, but you can hide the mechanics, have the protagonist evade and parry while taking damage, hell have that for everyone, make that what hitpoints represent a 'luck' or 'skill' not tied to the player, that runs out, and results in that last blow getting through and finishing the job.

None of that is in spirit of DA, and it will never be like that. And that doesnt sound cool at all.
Glad youre not in charge of development

Modifié par Frozenkex, 18 août 2013 - 07:24 .

[Allan Schumacher]

1) he presses a control pad button while manipulating a stickand misses by a mile, seems manual to me given that

Can you give me the precise moment in the video when the harpoon missed due to manual aim? I ask this because it's not manually aimed.... Unless you consider choosing a target manual aim.

But if it did miss, then I have a bug to file!

[Allan Schumacher]

That could still happen. Josh Stiksma (I hope I spelled that right) mentioned not throwing a metal chain at a lightning-charged target. Maybe we'll experience more blowback if we hook, say, an ogre, and the ogre yanks on the chain, throwing YOU off balance. That would be kinda cool.

I know Seb lingers in this thread too, but I was thinking about stuff like this and saw some similar posts in this thread. I'll be sure to pass this on to Seb and Josh because I do think that it's interesting!

[Vilegrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

1) he presses a control pad button while manipulating a stickand misses by a mile, seems manual to me given that

Can you give me the precise moment in the video when the harpoon missed due to manual aim? I ask this because it's not manually aimed.... Unless you consider choosing a target manual aim.

But if it did miss, then I have a bug to file!

around the 2:30 mark, first time he fires it off it vanishes into the distance.

[Gebert]

My opinion on the whole realism thing:
I don't really care whether or not the HP system is realistic, as I see it as a necessary abstraction that makes for interesting gameplay. 
I do, however, care about the animations and would prefer strikes to, as in KoTOR, be parried and dodged until the final blow.
I'd also like animations, armour, weapons, etc to resemble something that could've been used in real life, but that is just personal preference, as I feel that type of aesthetic is more thematically fitting to the setting of DA.
I'm totally okay with something like Wind Waker having highly stylized graphics, as I see it as more of a fairy tale than something trying to create a "believable" alternative universe.

Just my two cents.

(Oh, and just to nitpick on something someone said a couple of pages before, War of the Roses is not made by the guys behind M&B, Taleworlds, but Fatshark. WotR is also unfortunately a clunky piece of ****, IMHO, that does not in any way match up to M&B.)

[Vilegrim]

Gebert wrote...


(Oh, and just to nitpick on something someone said a couple of pages before, War of the Roses is not made by the guys behind M&B, Taleworlds, but Fatshark. WotR is also unfortunately a clunky piece of ****, IMHO, that does not in any way match up to M&B.)

For some reason I thought it was....you are right about it's lack of quality however.

[Il Divo]

Vilegrim wrote...

at least with the slow combat speed, and the actual movements in, well actually limited to, GW fighting and Sword and board, you had the feel of solidity and realism, and with the Isometric view you where zoomed out far enough to not notice how bad some things looked, with 2 it's all right there, in your face, and played up to the max, instead of handwaving things and underplaying them, they turned them up to 11 and rammed them down your throat, the guzzling potions and spin kicking grenades will defying gravity and teleporting was a step beyond 'walking with a bit of a shuffle and face stab build' for instance. 

ButI don't see this as a good argument for DA:O's favor. It goes back to that point I keep having to reiterate which is that you have to go out of your way to circumvent all the non-sensical elements featured in DA:O. That to me is like pointing out BG as a great example of realism when the game was simply incapable of providing in-depth combat animations because of the lack of in-depth graphics.

Now personally, I'm not a fan of the isometric camera (also a 360 player), so I got to see DA:O's combat up close on a regular basis. Combat animations, while not as flashy as DA2, were mostly awkward (especially dual-wielding animations) and  particularly while watching 3 (or more) enemies wailing on your character with swords like they were made of paper. That's certainly not realism. It just doesn't give the impression of the developers trying to be "awesome" in the manner that the DA2 rogue jumps around constantly.

 You want to go for cool looking cobat? Nothing looks cooler than realistic combat, maybe a touch overblown as in the film Ironclad, but you can hide the mechanics, have the protagonist evade and parry while taking damage, hell have that for everyone, make that what hitpoints represent a 'luck' or 'skill' not tied to the player, that runs out, and results in that last blow getting through and finishing the job.

This requires synched combat animations. While I personally loved them in KotOR and its sequel, this is apparently not possible to do for DA, due to everything occurring in real time. But if Bioware wanted to go back to the "dance of death" style of sword-fighting, I would be most pleased.

Modifié par Il Divo, 18 août 2013 - 07:43 .

[Gebert]

Vilegrim wrote...

Gebert wrote...


(Oh, and just to nitpick on something someone said a couple of pages before, War of the Roses is not made by the guys behind M&B, Taleworlds, but Fatshark. WotR is also unfortunately a clunky piece of ****, IMHO, that does not in any way match up to M&B.)

For some reason I thought it was....you are right about it's lack of quality however.

I think one of the community managers at Fatshark worked at Taleworlds before, or something, so it might've been that you've heard. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Filament wrote...

He misses at 2:33

Ah yes, thanks.

There are issues with how the targeting system is working right now, and it's a bit more accented because at this time you can use abilities (any of them) without a valid target.

So in that sense, you could argue that every ability has an element of "manual aim" to it.


Welcome to work in progress stuff folks.


EDIT: I did laugh that there's footage of our in game autokill shortly afterwards... XD

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 18 août 2013 - 07:47 .

[RaidenXS]

 camera sux! There's no peripherals! and why a lock on? Why is the movement so fast?

[Vilegrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Filament wrote...

He misses at 2:33

Ah yes, thanks.

There are issues with how the targeting system is working right now, and it's a bit more accented because at this time you can use abilities (any of them) without a valid target.

So in that sense, you could argue that every ability has an element of "manual aim" to it.


Welcome to work in progress stuff folks.


EDIT: I did laugh that there's footage of our in game autokill shortly afterwards... XD

That is a relief at least.

[andar91]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Filament wrote...

He misses at 2:33

Ah yes, thanks.

There are issues with how the targeting system is working right now, and it's a bit more accented because at this time you can use abilities (any of them) without a valid target.

So in that sense, you could argue that every ability has an element of "manual aim" to it.


Welcome to work in progress stuff folks.


EDIT: I did laugh that there's footage of our in game autokill shortly afterwards... XD

Your post made me laugh because a mage really could attack a bush then, just like Sigrun wanted Anders to do in Awakening. :happy:


I actually don't mind the targeting system being there (it was there in DA2 and Origins too, it's just more obvious with the reticle in Inquisition) as long as I can switch targets efficiently. It was rather difficult on DA2 on my PS3.

EDIT: @RaidenXS: I don't think it's an actual lock-on, just a way to see who you're currently targeting. The console versions of Origins and DA2 had that too, it just looks a little different now.

Modifié par andar91, 18 août 2013 - 07:54 .

[RaidenXS]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Overthinking my comment guys.  I don't actually know what all was shot for GI (I was doing my own thing while the crew was around).  It's simply a comment of 'it seems weird to put the tactical commentary with the single player footage" 

Multiplayer? Confirm or Deny?!