883 réponses à ce sujet

[Shevy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Filament wrote...

He misses at 2:33

Ah yes, thanks.

There are issues with how the targeting system is working right now, and it's a bit more accented because at this time you can use abilities (any of them) without a valid target.

So in that sense, you could argue that every ability has an element of "manual aim" to it.


Welcome to work in progress stuff folks.


EDIT: I did laugh that there's footage of our in game autokill shortly afterwards... XD

With the group of foes? I wondered myself what ability was used to insta-kill all enemies.

I think a mechanic that the grab hook can actually be used by big enemies against you would be a cool feature and make me as a player think twice before using the ability.

[Yuoaman]

Combat looks interesting, but I have no idea how it will work with a mouse and keyboard, especially with a full party.

Though I also have no idea how either of the previous games were played using a controller.

[Anna_0909]

I support the faster and more action-wise gameplay seen in DA2, but would like some more tactics. This video seem to show just that - so I'm quite positive!

[ARTHURIUSS]

Rather than me boring you people by waxing eloquent on the subject, you should really check out the comment section in this PC gamer article-

http://www.pcgamer.c...gameplay-video/

While there are a fair amount of prejudiced and biased statements, I believe it is a succinct representation of the underlying frustration amongst the disgruntled PC fan base. I do not presume to speak for all of them but most of them seem to yearn for the isometric view and a return to the more tactical roots of the franchise.However, the pre-alpha footage seems to have only reinforced their fears that the game is moving further away from what they wanted.

[Fast Jimmy]

In Exile wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'm not sure why this would neccessarily be a better solution on consoles? Having the moves such as a barrel roll or dodge be tied to the Tactics screen while also being stat driven in their usage would work just as well on PC as it would on console. 

No, that part is fine, I mean the control scheme that you were discussing. 

Ah. Well, being a console player, I do have to look after my own interests. Although with the PC and keyboard mapping, wouldn't this be a secondary consideration? You never run out of buttons on a PC. 

And, of course, the other points were the meat of my post - the controller preference portions was just a saucy milk bone. 

[DarthLaxian]

seems? - if it stays that way, then it is "The Witcher 2" with a party IMHO and that is not good

and yes, i want the isometric view, the tactics (also not in the extreme - not more then DA:O had, that was really really good IMHO) and the gameplay (if i want something else, i will really play "The Witcher 2" or something like it)

greetings LAX
ps: i would like to test the mechanics (with a full party or course!) though because maybe we are being overly dramatic?

[Cigne]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Filament wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

^ If that's the case filament than combat is going to get a lot more tactical and fun for mages.

Yeah, but even if you could only target the walls it still feels like a big deal, like you've broken the barrier of what is fundamentally 2d gameplay that, if you wanted, you could break down into circles on a checkerboard. Now the checkerboard has... walls?

Earthquake on the ground, Tempest on the ceiling, Inferno on the right wall, Blizzard on the left wall.

Welcome to Die.

Targeting walls...

After watching the sheilded enemy, I was wondering how it would respond to, say Gravitic Ring. Ignored if cast in front, pulled away if cast behind? Then I pictured casting it on a wall, and these bad guys stuck to it like flies.

In Exile wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Largely how I feel. The only time I ever paused in DA:O was because I wanted to use an ability not immediately hotkeyed.

Whereas
I grind my spacebar into dust. It's probably one of the reasons I find
DA:O/DA2 so easy. I counter each move before it happens. 

I have pause mapped to my mouse. The removal of P&P would be the closest thing to a dealbreaker, for me.
Not that I expect that to happen.

Foolsfolly wrote...

Lemme ask this then: what isn't twitch
gameplay? Because I cannot think of a video game where the character's
skill is more important than player skill. Even RPGs that are rather
loved by this forums like Alpha Protocol and The Witcher are very much
Player > Character in terms of gameplay.


The whole thing
feels like arbitrary lines in the sand. Video game RPGs are not pen and
paper RPGs. They borrow a lot of elements but they're very different
beasts. And player skill is always more important in these
games.

(bolded mine)
Player skill, yes. That's not the same as player reflex; I used to favor flight/space sims, but I no longer have the eye-hand coordination needed. The last shooter (not counting the ME's:)) that I played was Bad Company 2, and while I enjoyed it (the banter between the squadmates rivals some of DA's) I was frequently hitting <esc> to rest my eyes, and relax my shoulders and arms. Or reloading.

I'm 59, but slowing down doesn't mean I don't still enjoy challenging gameplay. I enjoyed both DA's on Nightmare, so I'm hoping the devs don't head in the direction of designing encounters with player reflexes a priority.

[Giantdeathrobot]

ARTHURIUSS wrote...

Rather than me boring you people by waxing eloquent on the subject, you should really check out the comment section in this PC gamer article-

http://www.pcgamer.c...gameplay-video/

While there are a fair amount of prejudiced and biased statements, I believe it is a succinct representation of the underlying frustration amongst the disgruntled PC fan base. I do not presume to speak for all of them but most of them seem to yearn for the isometric view and a return to the more tactical roots of the franchise.However, the pre-alpha footage seems to have only reinforced their fears that the game is moving further away from what they wanted.

Agree on the isometric view 100%, but seriously, what tactics? Baldur's Gate did not have anything like that, unless you count ''memorizing what spell counters what protection so your warrior can hit the wizard under it until the dice favors you and it dies'' tactics; I sure don't. KOTOR was so easy, no tactics involved, just stack buffs and whack at anything that moves. Neverwinter was like Baldur's Gate, except easier. Origins had little more tactic than whack stuff until it dies either, save in a few circumstances (such as the infamous room full of skeletons and traps in the Brecilian ruins, or some fights like the High Dragon). And the sort of tactics it had, DA2 also required in tougher boss fights (that damn Rock Wraith...). So I'm at a loss when people speak about tactics in Origins. What were those? Because I beat the game on Nightmare and, short of obsessive pausing and micro-managing like I always do, it didn't require anything special. I actually found DA2 on Hard more punishing than Origins on Nightmare, albeit for the wrong reasons sometimes.

Also, general comment, but I fail to see how 2 minutes of pre-alpha video with one character can give one enough of an impression on the combat to form a solid opinion. Until they release more, we really cannot say what it will look or play like.

[IC-07]

DarthLaxian wrote...

seems? - if it stays that way, then it is "The Witcher 2" with a party IMHO and that is not good

and yes, i want the isometric view, the tactics (also not in the extreme - not more then DA:O had, that was really really good IMHO) and the gameplay (if i want something else, i will really play "The Witcher 2" or something like it)

greetings LAX
ps: i would like to test the mechanics (with a full party or course!) though because maybe we are being overly dramatic?

I see more "Dark Souls" in it than "The Witcher 2". You know, rolling in heavy armor.

greetings LAX

[Ziegrif]

HACK UND SLAAAAAAAHS!!
YAAAAAAAY!!

[Fast Jimmy]

I think a mechanic that the grab hook can actually be used by big enemies against you would be a cool feature and make me as a player think twice before using the ability.

I have to agree and disagree. My chances of using such a mechanic if there are other options is, based on first impressions alone, going to be rare enough as it is, but if there was a chance for a negative feedback loop of using said skill, I would likely never pick it up in the first place.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 18 août 2013 - 10:52 .

[Il Divo]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I think a mechanic that the grab hook can actually be used by big enemies against you would be a cool feature and make me as a player think twice before using the ability.

I have to agree and disagree. My chances of using such a mechanic if there are other options is, based on first impressions alone, going to be rare enough as it is, but if there was a chance for a negative feedback loop of using said skill, I would likely never pick it up in the first place.

True, but it's at least cool in the sense that the devs are clearly trying to emphasize how various skills are inter-related, as opposed to just existing in isolation from each other, especially on a visual level.

[slimgrin]

IC-07 wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

seems? - if it stays that way, then it is "The Witcher 2" with a party IMHO and that is not good

and yes, i want the isometric view, the tactics (also not in the extreme - not more then DA:O had, that was really really good IMHO) and the gameplay (if i want something else, i will really play "The Witcher 2" or something like it)

greetings LAX
ps: i would like to test the mechanics (with a full party or course!) though because maybe we are being overly dramatic?

I see more "Dark Souls" in it than "The Witcher 2". You know, rolling in heavy armor.

greetings LAX

Yep. The slow roll and plodding animations, trying to outpace the enemie's turn rate, that's all Dark Souls stuff. Witcher 2 is way faster.

[philippe willaume]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...
Agree on the isometric view 100%, but seriously, what tactics? Baldur's Gate did not have anything like that, unless you count ''memorizing what spell counters what protection so your warrior can hit the wizard under it until the dice favors you and it dies'' tactics; I sure don't. KOTOR was so easy, no tactics involved, just stack buffs and whack at anything that moves. Neverwinter was like Baldur's Gate, except easier. Origins had little more tactic than whack stuff until it dies either, save in a few circumstances (such as the infamous room full of skeletons and traps in the Brecilian ruins, or some fights like the High Dragon). And the sort of tactics it had, DA2 also required in tougher boss fights (that damn Rock Wraith...). So I'm at a loss when people speak about tactics in Origins. What were those? Because I beat the game on Nightmare and, short of obsessive pausing and micro-managing like I always do, it didn't require anything special. I actually found DA2 on Hard more punishing than Origins on Nightmare, albeit for the wrong reasons sometimes.

Also, general comment, but I fail to see how 2 minutes of pre-alpha video with one character can give one enough of an impression on the combat to form a solid opinion. Until they release more, we really cannot say what it will look or play like.

hello I can understand that.

For Da:0 if you develop you companion based on role-play you are likely to l end-up with a somewhat sub-optimal group.
so in order not to die every encounter, you needed to use the scouting/survival (i think) to find the number and the level of the opposition as well as where other groups might come.
and then organize you party, role (melee or missile) and the terrain, to Maximilian combo and control the enemies so that you were not mobbed up or. 
if you played with two mages or a semi-optimized group, you never needed to go to those length. 
To be honest that what i missed in DA:2 where a single optimized char was enough to mince through easy-peasy

Nightmare was really not difficult in DA:0 (or DA:2 for that matter) so even with a sub-optimal group it was not too much of a strain

[ARTHURIUSS]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

ARTHURIUSS wrote...

Rather than me boring you people by waxing eloquent on the subject, you should really check out the comment section in this PC gamer article-

http://www.pcgamer.c...gameplay-video/

While there are a fair amount of prejudiced and biased statements, I believe it is a succinct representation of the underlying frustration amongst the disgruntled PC fan base. I do not presume to speak for all of them but most of them seem to yearn for the isometric view and a return to the more tactical roots of the franchise.However, the pre-alpha footage seems to have only reinforced their fears that the game is moving further away from what they wanted.

Agree on the isometric view 100%, but seriously, what tactics? Baldur's Gate did not have anything like that, unless you count ''memorizing what spell counters what protection so your warrior can hit the wizard under it until the dice favors you and it dies'' tactics; I sure don't. KOTOR was so easy, no tactics involved, just stack buffs and whack at anything that moves. Neverwinter was like Baldur's Gate, except easier. Origins had little more tactic than whack stuff until it dies either, save in a few circumstances (such as the infamous room full of skeletons and traps in the Brecilian ruins, or some fights like the High Dragon). And the sort of tactics it had, DA2 also required in tougher boss fights (that damn Rock Wraith...). So I'm at a loss when people speak about tactics in Origins. What were those? Because I beat the game on Nightmare and, short of obsessive pausing and micro-managing like I always do, it didn't require anything special. I actually found DA2 on Hard more punishing than Origins on Nightmare, albeit for the wrong reasons sometimes.

Also, general comment, but I fail to see how 2 minutes of pre-alpha video with one character can give one enough of an impression on the combat to form a solid opinion. Until they release more, we really cannot say what it will look or play like.

That obsessive pausing and micro-managing that you mention counts as tactics for many. Also,I felt positioning had a greater tactical significance in origins as opposed to DA2 wher you could literally teleport to the enemy.

I agree that many of them are jumping the shark by judging the game based on a minute of pre-alpha footage but the gripes mentioned there are valid and I wanted to bring them to Bioware's attention. I myself don't understand Bioware's reluctance to give us PC gamers the isometrice view but I'm not going to start waving pitchforks until we get more info.

[philippe willaume]

slimgrin wrote...

IC-07 wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

seems? - if it stays that way, then it is "The Witcher 2" with a party IMHO and that is not good

and yes, i want the isometric view, the tactics (also not in the extreme - not more then DA:O had, that was really really good IMHO) and the gameplay (if i want something else, i will really play "The Witcher 2" or something like it)

greetings LAX
ps: i would like to test the mechanics (with a full party or course!) though because maybe we are being overly dramatic?

I see more "Dark Souls" in it than "The Witcher 2". You know, rolling in heavy armor.

greetings LAX

Yep. The slow roll and plodding animations, trying to outpace the enemie's turn rate, that's all Dark Souls stuff. Witcher 2 is way faster.

Yes but in the witcher you have only one char to play with. and they mentioned enough that iDA:l is a party based game and time to deal with companions had to come from somewhere.

phil
ps and yes  i like both witcher very much

Modifié par philippe willaume, 18 août 2013 - 11:07 .

[IC-07]

philippe willaume wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

IC-07 wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

seems? - if it stays that way, then it is "The Witcher 2" with a party IMHO and that is not good

and yes, i want the isometric view, the tactics (also not in the extreme - not more then DA:O had, that was really really good IMHO) and the gameplay (if i want something else, i will really play "The Witcher 2" or something like it)

greetings LAX
ps: i would like to test the mechanics (with a full party or course!) though because maybe we are being overly dramatic?

I see more "Dark Souls" in it than "The Witcher 2". You know, rolling in heavy armor.

greetings LAX

Yep. The slow roll and plodding animations, trying to outpace the enemie's turn rate, that's all Dark Souls stuff. Witcher 2 is way faster.

Yes but in the witcher you have only one char to play with. and they mentioned enough that iDA:l is a party based game and time to deal with companions had to come from somewhere.

phil
ps and yes  i like both witcher very much

Yet the question rises - do we need our companions if we can roll out of trouble?

Modifié par IC-07, 18 août 2013 - 11:12 .

[ARTHURIUSS]

IC-07 wrote...

Yet the question rises - do we need our companions if we can roll out of trouble?

I don't see why not. They'll be multiple varied enemies, too many and too different for the protaganist to take them out by himself. That's always been the core driving principle of DA's party combat.

[Giantdeathrobot]

ARTHURIUSS wrote...

That obsessive pausing and micro-managing that you mention counts as tactics for many. Also,I felt positioning had a greater tactical significance in origins as opposed to DA2 wher you could literally teleport to the enemy.

I agree that many of them are jumping the shark by judging the game based on a minute of pre-alpha footage but the gripes mentioned there are valid and I wanted to bring them to Bioware's attention. I myself don't understand Bioware's reluctance to give us PC gamers the isometrice view but I'm not going to start waving pitchforks until we get more info.

I pause-unpause in every single game I can. Bioware RPGs, FTL: Faster than Light, Obsidian games, you name it I use it. I also abused the slow-mo menu in TW2. It's my way of playing, I don't consider it tactics.

As for positioning, I see your point, but some DA2 fights still required lots (the Rock Wraith and Corypheus especially had several moves you had to avoid). I wouldn't say that one game required tactics more than the other, honestly. RTS games require tactics at higher level; some FPS require teamwork which are similar. RPGs are about stacking numbers and making them work except in some cases (boss fights especially). I've never played any RPG that required tactics in that sense. Maybe Fallout 1 and 2, and even then it was more about ressource management and hoping not to eat a lucky crit.

[azarhal]

IC-07 wrote...

Yet the question rises - do we need our companions if we can roll out of trouble?

There are people who soloed DAO on nightmare. I soloed most BioWare games myself. None of these games had "rolling out of trouble" features and yet you could solo them.

Although, where does it say that you can roll out of trouble at will, that it doesn't cost anything to use or that rolling mean avoiding all damage or that missles attacks will miss because they are aren't target locked?

It might even be a console only feature like the DA2 optional auto-attacks was.

[philippe willaume]

[quote]IC-07 wrote...

[quote]philippe willaume wrote...
Snip Snip

Yet the question rises - do we need our companions if we can roll out of trouble?

[/quote]

it is not a bad question, especially after my DA:2  experience 

At that stage it is hard to say.

i suspect  the main reason will be damage delta due to cool down.
IE you get an effect like pulling or kneeling and a companion can use  talent the take advantage of the situation the enemy is in.
ideally, you would have talent/perks that would take advantage of that as well but cool down time could make the do-it-all-on-my own-approach much much less efficient.
as well cool down time and speed could be used to get the action and rpg game mode/difficulty.

Phil 

[TheRealJayDee]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Filament wrote...

In Exile wrote...

I think this thread has jumped the shark.

Shark toss for DAI ability, upgrading the harpoon.

Semi-confirmed rumor!

So do we get some combo with a magic storm to trigger a devastating "Sharknado"??

[leaguer of one]

ARTHURIUSS wrote...

Rather than me boring you people by waxing eloquent on the subject, you should really check out the comment section in this PC gamer article-

http://www.pcgamer.c...gameplay-video/

While there are a fair amount of prejudiced and biased statements, I believe it is a succinct representation of the underlying frustration amongst the disgruntled PC fan base. I do not presume to speak for all of them but most of them seem to yearn for the isometric view and a return to the more tactical roots of the franchise.However, the pre-alpha footage seems to have only reinforced their fears that the game is moving further away from what they wanted.

Hawke: I think the pc fan base has a point.....On it's head.

The entire problem with DA2 started is when fans found out that pc was not the lead platform.  I feel the biased is more that the dev is using a control then a problem with DAI.