883 réponses à ce sujet

[Torchlyte]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Where does the notion that any twitch is the opposite of strategic come from? Quick reactions are just another layer to combat.

The problem is that people equate twitch skills with FPS games and such, but there are games that require both twitch and decision-making skills. League of Legends is a good example. However, party-based combat is incompatible with twitch gameplay in a single-player game. That is, party-based combat where the player is trying to control everything, ala Dragon Age.

Modifié par Torchlyte, 17 août 2013 - 06:19 .

[Genshie]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Where does the notion that any twitch is the opposite of strategic come from? Quick reactions are just another layer to combat.

That is pretty much what I said earlier. I don't get everyone's gripe about it when you can pause as well. I almost feel like it is griping for the sake of griping. If you weren't able to pause the game in mid combat then I may see their gripe as a valid issue, however it is not like Witcher 2 where the combat is just slown to a crawl and still continues.

[Gnoster]

It was very little and pre-alpha combat mechanics we saw, but judging on that I think it looked very smooth and action oriented. I personally got a MMOish vibe when I saw it, but I agree with others that it looks a bit like the combat in Witcher 2.

Personally I love the combat in Witcher 2 and this is a combat style that in my opinion is great for a single player RPG. However my problem with it is that Dragon Age is opposed to Witcher a party based game, and I personally would have a hard time maintaining control and proper view of the battlefield if I could only look in 3rd person mode, like they did in the footage. This is part of why I love both DA series and Witcher series and refuse to pick one over the other, as I think they compliment each other perfectly in their approach to a single player fantasy game.

I am hoping they have only shown the action oriented part of combat (apparantly that seems to be fairly standard  third person view, standard meaning it works), but that it will be possible to zoom out to see a more full view of the entire battlefield once you have a full party and are facing lots of enemies. I am not requiring full isometric view like in BG or DAO, but somewhere close would be nice and needed if they truly want to go for that strategic feel (as strategic feel is more than intelligent enemies)

[Mark of the Dragon]

I like what I saw and heard.

I suspect we will see more of the party focused tactics as we go on. It seems that they have noticed what fans want and are going to implement feedback accordingly.

I am excited about seeing these tactics at work when we have a four person party at out disposal. But so far for a first look I am impressed.

[leaguer of one]

EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Where does the notion that any twitch is the opposite of strategic come from? Quick reactions are just another layer to combat.

Twitch isn't the opposite of strategic (they don't seem to have anything to do with each other).

Twitch is the "opposite" of character ability--the whole purpose of the attribute system and dice rolls and armor and such.

You do have a point but you are missing alot on that assuption. Question on hand is how it would be applied. Remeber, DA2 did have rolls  as well but for rogues. That application did not make the game more twitch due to it's limited use with cooldowns and use based of the abilities attributes.

In da2, even with the roll the issue of if the character is hit or not is still based on stats. And we have yet to see how bw appied stats and this roll in the game.
It most likly maybe cooldown based with it's own attribute applied to it like DA2 roll for rogues.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Why can't you just upause, activate a dodge, and pause while mid-dodge to get your strategy aspect on?

Are those extra .05 seconds of time truly going to ruin the entire game?

Not being able to dodge, espically when I can see an attack coming and it would take merely a second to dive, duck, jump, or roll out of the way, is a bad gameplay aspect when it comes to having an engaging fight experience.

If that's the case there's no point in doing any type of build except tanks and stationary dps specalist, since those are the only true viable builds for a dodgeless game.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 17 août 2013 - 06:26 .

[Mclouvins]

Just something to consider but the roll could be a normal roll type dodge. If you look it is timed very well with the attack, not unlike the dodge at towards the beginning of the video which was reminiscent of origins. Maybe its something where if the character is moving and registers a dodge they roll away to prevent some sort of weird animation sync issues. Otherwise if a mob attacks and a character is moving the character might stop moving so the animations can couple.

[leaguer of one]

Torchlyte wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Where does the notion that any twitch is the opposite of strategic come from? Quick reactions are just another layer to combat.

The problem is that people equate twitch skills with FPS games and such, but there are games that require both twitch and decision-making skills. League of Legends is a good example. However, party-based combat is incompatible with twitch gameplay in a single-player game. That is, party-based combat where the player is trying to control everything, ala Dragon Age.

But we don't know how this roll will be applied to the game. DA2 had rolls for rogue in it and it did not make the game twitch heavy based on how it was applied. It was just a fast da2.

[nightcobra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Where does the notion that any twitch is the opposite of strategic come from? Quick reactions are just another layer to combat.

Twitch isn't the opposite of strategic (they don't seem to have anything to do with each other).

Twitch is the "opposite" of character ability--the whole purpose of the attribute system and dice rolls and armor and such.

not necessarily, a dodge roll initiated by the player could have it's own attribute modifiers like roll faster with higher dexterity, roll slower with lower dexterity for example.

[AlanC9]

Maybe this has been covered, but I'm a bit concerned about what happens to the party members I'm not controlling. Will their AIs handle the twitch elements? That shielded foe is easy enough for me to handle, but will AI-controlled companions just keep bashing the shield?

[Cainhurst Crow]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered, but I'm a bit concerned about what happens to the party members I'm not controlling. Will their AIs handle the twitch elements? That shielded foe is easy enough for me to handle, but will AI-controlled companions just keep bashing the shield?

I think you would need to go into the tactics menu and set a command to set what you want to do against certain enemies. Like what DAO and DA2 had. Course they probably have a basic knowledge of what to do already, but I don't see this feature being phased out anytime soon.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 17 août 2013 - 06:30 .

[Genshie]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered, but I'm a bit concerned about what happens to the party members I'm not controlling. Will their AIs handle the twitch elements? That shielded foe is easy enough for me to handle, but will AI-controlled companions just keep bashing the shield?

If you can customize their actions like you could in the previous games I don't see what the problem is here. I am pretty sure that all the classes will have some sort of ability to deal with the shield issue. Also there is always attack the target the controlled party member is attacking  which has never failed me before.

Edit: Dang it Darth ninja'd me.

Modifié par Genshie, 17 août 2013 - 06:30 .

[Torchlyte]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered, but I'm a bit concerned about what happens to the party members I'm not controlling. Will their AIs handle the twitch elements? That shielded foe is easy enough for me to handle, but will AI-controlled companions just keep bashing the shield?

I would expect it to work similar to Mass Effect 3, since that featured a very similar shield concept. It's been a while since I played that particular game, though...

[mp911]

looks nice,
we saw little but given the new fight mecanic it seems ridiculous numbers of enemies (da2) are a thing of the past

[Mclouvins]

Filament wrote...

Mclouvins wrote...

Just something to consider but the roll could be a normal roll type dodge. If you look it is timed very well with the attack, not unlike the dodge at towards the beginning of the video which was reminiscent of origins. Maybe its something where if the character is moving and registers a dodge they roll away to prevent some sort of weird animation sync issues. Otherwise if a mob attacks and a character is moving the character might stop moving so the animations can couple.

The fire safety "dance of death"?

Sort of. If you sort of peel back from just looking at the character and look at the enemy as well the start of his lunge and the start of the roll seem to line up perfectly, and if you look at the employee's hands he doesn't seem to touch anything other than the thumbstick until after the roll is completed and he is cutting back. Obviously I don't know anything definitive but its something to consider.

[Cainhurst Crow]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I think you would need to go into the tactics menu and set a command to set what you want to do against certain enemies. Like what DAO and DA2 had. Course they probably have a basic knowledge of what to do already, but I don't see this feature being phased out anytime soon.

Was there a "flank" option? There was in the Advanced Tactics mod, but not in the regular game. You're talking about a step up in...AI combat function, to account for something like this.

Why yes. Yes I am.

If they're focusing on new enemy types that have specific weaknesses and strategies needed, it stands that logically, the tactics options would evolve as well to accomidate this change.

[Cainhurst Crow]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why can't you just upause, activate a dodge, and pause while mid-dodge to get your strategy aspect on?

Are those extra .05 seconds of time truly going to ruin the entire game?

Not being able to dodge, espically when I can see an attack coming and it would take merely a second to dive, duck, jump, or roll out of the way, is a bad gameplay aspect when it comes to having an engaging fight experience.

If that's the case there's no point in doing any type of build except tanks and stationary dps specalist, since those are the only true viable builds for a dodgeless game.

The fact that I even have to do it is a problem. If they can assign it as an ability and put it in the tactics, that would be alright.

Something I've pushed for a (little) while now is the ability to have tactics enabled for all characters, even the "controlled" character. I want to be able to sit back and watch my build work.

Basically, if it can't be slaved to the tactics, I don't support it for Dragon Age.

I don't understand what's bad about the dodge being asigned to double tapping the A button, or double tapping X button, or the Q,E,Z,X,C,F,R,J,Or Any other key on a keyboard depending on what platform you use.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 17 août 2013 - 06:51 .

[Genshie]

Filament wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Basically, if it can't be slaved to the tactics, I don't support it for Dragon Age.

It's curious that on one hand, party based gameplay essentially boils down to the desire to be able to turn off tactics entirely, yet still be able to fully control your whole party and have it be fully functional. Yet on the other hand, there is another desire to let the party run entirely on tactics and also be fully functional.

Not saying those desires contradict each other, but it's interesting for some reason.

That is what I am not understanding some people's issues with dodge here since in some format you have twitch combat, yes even in the previous games if you did not pause there were twitch like elements, to a degree but that is almost pratically nullified with the pause feature.

Modifié par Genshie, 17 août 2013 - 06:59 .