1132 réponses à ce sujet

[Armass81]

A reaper is not a darkspawn, you cant just shoot it with your avenger and expect it to topple over.

This is the problem with the main enemies, theyre just too goddamn big. One soldier cant possibly kill a reaper. If this was a space shooter game like Star Fox, then you might have killed some reapers, but ME was never that. Its about a group of 3 guys on the battlefield shooting things.... that makes it a little difficult to annihilate a killer robot the size of several godzillas which can simply step on you.

Its like Ashley said in ME1, something like "it pisses me off that I can play no part in this war, against the reapers my rifle might as well be shooting spitballs"

Modifié par Armass81, 18 août 2013 - 06:18 .

[dreamgazer]

Br3ad wrote...

See Darkspawn, Sith Empire, Sauron, etc. None of these would have been beaten if we just had a conventional war. That's not the problem at all.

Eh, it's a little unfair to bring medieval fantasy into the equation, and I wouldn't call the semi-conventional defeat of the Sith Empire "strong writing".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Define conventional.

Define unconventional

Define stupid -- I'll handle this -- "Wake up. I am the Catalyst. I control the reapers. They are my solution."

[o Ventus]

Br3ad wrote...

See Darkspawn, Sith Empire, Sauron, etc. None of these would have been beaten if we just had a conventional war. That's not the problem at all.

The Darkspawn ARE beaten conventionally. As conventionally as magically mutated fantasy creatures infused with Old God taint can be beaten, anyway. You beat the Archdemon, and the army reverts back into their mindless, primal state. They aren't much of a threat afterwards.

[xThe Architechx]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Define stupid -- I'll handle this -- "Wake up. I am the Catalyst. I control the reapers. They are my solution."

Three minutes before the end of the story, how can someone interpret that bomb of information? That i will never know.......

Modifié par xThe Architechx, 18 août 2013 - 06:24 .

[Br3admax]

No they aren't. Read the story of the First Blight. At first, that was a conventional war. In a conventional war, you do not have to defeat the leader to destroy the enemy. Infact, that is almost guaranteed to just make the other side angrier. This is not a game of chess.

[Br3admax]

Armass81 wrote...

A reaper is not a darkspawn, you cant just shoot it with your avenger and expect it to topple over.

This is the problem with the main enemies, theyre just too goddamn big. One soldier cant possibly kill a reaper. If this was a space shooter game like Star Fox, then you might have killed some reapers, but ME was never that. Its about a group of 3 guys on the battlefield shooting things.... that makes it a little difficult to annihilate a killer robot the size of several godzillas which can simply step on you.

Its like Ashley said in ME1, something like "it pisses me off that I can play no part in this war, against the reapers my rifle might as well be shooting spitballs"

No one shoots a ship and expects it to sink. You need a ship just as powerful, which the protagonist's side will rarely have. 

[Linkenski]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Anyone agree? Just finished Mass Effect 1 for the PS3 for the first time and I am amzaed at what a masterpeiece it truly is. They should have altered the ending to say that the since the shortcut to the Galaxy has been cut off, it will take the Reapers at least a millenia to reach the edges of our galaxy. Shepard suggests that even so we should not get complacent and prepare for the future. Meanwhile there are other, closer battles to be fought and Shepard will keep on fighting. 

Msss Effect 2 could feature the death of Shepard and playing as a new charater tryng to solve his mysterious death (Death Of Shepard! Featuring Cyborg-Shep, Shep-Boy/Shep-Girl, The Commander and Element Zero aka Steel) and also that off the new Collector threat. Your choices do import and the ME 1 charecacter's you meet reflect that. You find Shep half way through and even becomes a squadmate having the same class as in ME 1. 

Mass Effect 3 could feature dual compaigns with Shep and ME 2 Protag and some other end the world plot.
Also, I dislike deciding the fate of the galaxy or species or very important faction because it means we don't get to see the consequences of our actions in the next game.

I think that would have been even worse than what they did. But like I stated in my other thread I disliked the majority of Mass Effect 3 and I'm under the impression that it wasn't just the ending that ruined it, but the whole idea for the third game. After I beat ME2 my imagination started running wild about what would happen next. Guess what, the only thing I never considered even once was the theme of war. That's so generic, unbelievable for enemies in the size of Reapers and just dumb imo. The whole premise of ME3 sucked and thus the whole game had a lot of hit and miss in it.

IMO they should've made ME3 all about the thread of the Reaper myth and by the beginning about a dozen of Reapers should enter the traverse but not millions of them, and in any good ending you would stop the whole crisis from happening before it was possible. Well that was just one Idea, but I still think it was better than the idea of War.

Or they could have taken the theme of war and just done it better in some ways. I really didn't like how obvious it was that most of the inspiration was taken from movies based on war history, especially the most critically acclaimed WWII movies. I always knew the Turian was military, but their portrayal made them seem too much like human soldiers from WWII with different skins. In the end I thought the portrayal made it seem unrealistic and unbelievable that all these idiots were tring to repel Reapers like they were just a regular "enemy".

[MrStoob]

David7204 wrote...

That's stupid.

No.

If there is no conflict, there is no story.

People make claims that Mass Effect is about the characters and therefore the Reaper plot is unnecessary. It doesn't work that way at all. Few of the moments people enjoy about the characters could have existed without a threat on the level of the Reapers.

From a while back in the thread but:

+1

Without jeopardy, it'd just be people standing around.  It only worked for Citadel DLC because of the war and how we'd got to know the characters through the hardships.  I know the Reapers' potential was wasted somewhat but I'd fix that before throwing the baby out with the bathwater as OP suggests.

IMO, place 90% of ME3 in ME2 because really, ME2 did **** all for progressing the story except introduce new characters.  Reapers by the time ME2 is done?  Still coming, no change there.  I follow smudboys' cry of 'what was the point of ME2?' (story-wise not game-wise).  That should have been the time to rally the cry and unite the galaxy, THEN in ME3 we actually have the fight.  WITH THE REAPERS AND NOT CERBERUS!  Anyway, we've done this a million times on BSN now hehe.  Enough from me.  Except to say, that I loved the game, I just didn't enjoy the terrible after-taste.

Modifié par MrStoob, 18 août 2013 - 07:48 .

[o Ventus]

Br3ad wrote...

No they aren't. Read the story of the First Blight. At first, that was a conventional war. In a conventional war, you do not have to defeat the leader to destroy the enemy. Infact, that is almost guaranteed to just make the other side angrier. This is not a game of chess.

Did you miss the entire second sentence in my post? "Conventional" war just means that "conventional" tactics are used in the fighting. It isn't as if we spent the length of DAO building this magical kill-switch that allows the Warden to kill all the Darkspawn (and mages, for some reason), take control of the Darkspawn (but not the mages, for some reason), or merge Darkspawn and non-Darkspawn into a uniform type of life.

[David7204]

No. ME 2 should not have been used to unite the galaxy.

One of two things would have happened, and they would both be mediocre storytelling at best.

A) The preparations would have been effective. In which case, after two games of very heavy foreshadowing, what we have is basically a big cop out. The Reapers aren't really that powerful at all. The galaxy is able to hold them off, and they just come as big spaceships instead of monsters of immense power.

or

The preparations aren't effective. In which case this has accomplished less than nothing. Not only do we not have a solution for defeating the Reapers, we have a united galaxy that was crippled at it's absolute strongest. So all those themes of unity and friendship in uniting the galaxy go down the drain since it was obviously completely pointless.

Modifié par David7204, 18 août 2013 - 08:07 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

No. ME 2 should not have been used to unite the galaxy.

The preparations aren't effective. In which case this has accomplished less than nothing. Not only do we not have a solution for defeating the Reapers, we have a united galaxy that was crippled at it's absolute strongest. So all those themes of unity and friendship in uniting the galaxy go down the drain since it was obviously completely pointless.

Ostagar in DA:O.  the well prepared and equppied army is overwhelmed and the Darkspawn are running rampant.  Your job, unite those who sat on the sidelines before and use them to save Ferelden. 

Now tweak where applicable.

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

No. ME 2 should not have been used to unite the galaxy.

One of two things would have happened, and they would both be mediocre storytelling at best.

A) The preparations would have been effective. In which case, after two games of very heavy foreshadowing, what we have is basically a cop out. The Reapers aren't really that powerful at all. The galaxy is able to hold them off, and they just come as big spaceships instead of monsters of immense power.

or

The preparations aren't effective. In which case this has accomplished less than nothing. Not only do we not have a solution for defeating the Reapers, we have a united galaxy that was crippled at it's absolute strongest. So all those themes of unity and friendship in uniting the galaxy go down the drain since it was obviously completely pointless.

What if they weren't completely effective, but did enough to know that you hadn't wasted your time in ME2? Slowing down the Reapers significantly where the rest of the galaxy might have been steamrolled before, for instance.

[David7204]

You can't just unite the galaxy in ME 2, have everyone get bulldozed by the Reapers, and then unite them again in ME 3. It makes utterly no sense.

[o Ventus]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. ME 2 should not have been used to unite the galaxy.

The preparations aren't effective. In which case this has accomplished less than nothing. Not only do we not have a solution for defeating the Reapers, we have a united galaxy that was crippled at it's absolute strongest. So all those themes of unity and friendship in uniting the galaxy go down the drain since it was obviously completely pointless.

Ostagar in DA:O.  the well prepared and equppied army is overwhelmed and the Darkspawn are running rampant.  Your job, unite those who sat on the sidelines before and use them to save Ferelden. 

Now tweak where applicable.

1. Loghain.
2. Cailan's army is not what I would call "well prepared".

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

You can't just unite the galaxy in ME 2, have everyone get bulldozed by the Reapers, and then unite them again in ME 3. It makes utterly no sense.

What if it's not bulldozing? What if ME2 focused on unity and ME3 on the Crucible?

[Br3admax]

Also the youngest person there is one of the most competent soldiers. It wasn't meant to make since, no video game was. Plot beats sense.

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You can't just unite the galaxy in ME 2, have everyone get bulldozed by the Reapers, and then unite them again in ME 3. It makes utterly no sense.

What if it's not bulldozing? What if ME2 focused on unity and ME3 on the Crucible?

ME3 would have been a lot shorter. 

[David7204]

Xilizhra wrote...

What if they weren't completely effective, but did enough to know that you hadn't wasted your time in ME2? Slowing down the Reapers significantly where the rest of the galaxy might have been steamrolled before, for instance.

Well, that's kind of difficult to show since we have no mode of comparison. This is the only Reaper invasion we've seen.

I would prefer not, because it really doesn't solve anything. We still need a solution to defeat the Reapers, and now we're no longer uniting the galaxy in ME 3.

Modifié par David7204, 18 août 2013 - 08:10 .

[Steelcan]

o Ventus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. ME 2 should not have been used to unite the galaxy.

The preparations aren't effective. In which case this has accomplished less than nothing. Not only do we not have a solution for defeating the Reapers, we have a united galaxy that was crippled at it's absolute strongest. So all those themes of unity and friendship in uniting the galaxy go down the drain since it was obviously completely pointless.

Ostagar in DA:O.  the well prepared and equppied army is overwhelmed and the Darkspawn are running rampant.  Your job, unite those who sat on the sidelines before and use them to save Ferelden. 

Now tweak where applicable.

1. Loghain.
2. Cailan's army is not what I would call "well prepared".

Cailan for all his foolishness was doing well against the Darkspawn until he was betrayed. 

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

What if they weren't completely effective, but did enough to know that you hadn't wasted your time in ME2? Slowing down the Reapers significantly where the rest of the galaxy might have been steamrolled before, for instance.

Well, that's kind of difficult to show since we have no mode of comparison. This is the only Reaper invasion we've seen.

I would prefer not, because it really doesn't solve anything. We still need a solution to defeat the Reapers, and now we're no longer uniting the galaxy in ME 3.

Then what would be best for ME2?

[David7204]

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You can't just unite the galaxy in ME 2, have everyone get bulldozed by the Reapers, and then unite them again in ME 3. It makes utterly no sense.

What if it's not bulldozing? What if ME2 focused on unity and ME3 on the Crucible?

The Reapers have been foreshadowed extensively for two games as immensely powerful, advanced, and ruthless enemies. To validate that foreshadowing, the narrative really needs to follow through. They really do need to be incredibly powerful and hit the galaxy very hard. At least at first.

Modifié par David7204, 18 août 2013 - 08:14 .

[David7204]

Xilizhra wrote...

Then what would be best for ME2?

Simple. Weaken the Reapers without diminishing them as threats or providing a solution. Pretty much what ME 1 did with crippling the Reapers' weapon of control of the Relays.

I wrote a thread suggesting such a plotline a few days ago. You can take a look here.

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Then what would be best for ME2?

Simple. Weaken the Reapers without diminishing them as threats or providing a solution. Pretty much what ME 1 did with crippling the Reapers' weapon of control of the Relays.

I wrote a thread suggesting such a plotline a few days ago. You can take a look here.

ME2 kind of did that already, by destroying a lot of their more useful soldiers and their new Reaper design. I think if that had had its consequences followed up on more in ME3, it may have worked.