92 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Including controller support isn't the same as removing kb/m support.

Don't be silly, Maria. It's exactly like how optional speed-combat would mean no one would choose to fight a battle in Dragon Age ever again.

[FedericoV]

Wulfram wrote...

The PC version of DAI really shoudn't be clearly tailored to play with a controller.  It should be clearly tailored to be played with a keyboard and mouse.

Once they've got that done, then it's time to look at whether you can support controller too.

They should not. But they will.

With the notable exception of DA:O, every Bioware game since Kotor has been originally optimized to be played with a controller and later adapted to be played with the k/m setup (in some cases the port has been made months  after the publishing and in ME case a port wasn't even considered to begin with).

Infact, even the devs test their games with a controller and not with the k/m setup. Sometimes the port has been done very well (Kotor and ME series). Sometimes the port leaves something to be desired (Jade Empire and DA2). I hope they make the best port in the world. Still, the original vision is always better in my opinion and you're always going to loose something during the translation. 

I would love too if they could develop a version of the game with the PC in mind, with tactical camera and other convenient options. But I fear they won't. And looking at the trailer about the combat gameplay, even if I know that it's still work in progress, I don't know if there's even a point. 

If I have to jump, roll, dodge, run and throw harpoons in third person view, there is no contest for me: the gamepad is a better tool. 

Modifié par FedericoV, 19 août 2013 - 11:52 .

[Sjpelke]

FedericoV wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The PC version of DAI really shoudn't be clearly tailored to play with a controller.  It should be clearly tailored to be played with a keyboard and mouse.

Once they've got that done, then it's time to look at whether you can support controller too.

They should not. But they will.

With the notable exception of DA:O, every Bioware game since Kotor has been originally optimized to be played with a controller and later adapted to be played with the k/m setup (in some cases the port has been made months  after the publishing and in ME case a port wasn't even considered to begin with).

Infact, even the devs test their games with a controller and not with the k/m setup. Sometimes the port has been done very well (Kotor and ME series). Sometimes the port leaves something to be desired (Jade Empire and DA2). I hope they make the best port in the world. Still, the original vision is always better in my opinion and you're always going to loose something during the translation. 

I would love too if they could develop a version of the game with the PC in mind, with tactical camera and other convenient options. But I fear they won't. And looking at the trailer about the combat gameplay, even if I know that it's still work in progress, I don't know if there's even a point. 

If I have to jump, roll, dodge, run and throw harpoons in third person view, there is no contest for me: the gamepad is a better tool. They have developed the game with that device in mind: let me just play it how the devs have originally envisioned it. 

If the basic games design is to be played with a controller all adjustments will be exactly that; adjustments. Controllers have limitations compared to playing with mouse and keyboard. A pc mouse can 'travel' freely over a screen, making 'micro' actions possible.

Tactical camera view is a nice feature to have but its need depends on how actual battle proceeds in the game. If it happens in a wide open area, spreading out controlable characters, the total overview gets lost if zooming out is not possible. When not going there the problem does not arrise.

[Iosev]

I personally would love native gamepad support for the PC release of Inquisition. While the keyboard and mouse is definitely ideal for the combat portions of the game, a good chunk of the game also involves third-person exploration and dialogue, which I prefer to play while lying back on a couch with a gamepad, instead of hunched over a desk.

While programs like Xpadder or Pinnacle Game Profiler do their best to map the controls onto a gamepad, they still pale in comparison to true, native gamepad support (e.g., analog, appropriate UI, etc.). Additionally, I like the access to mods, console commands, better performance (with a gaming PC), and so on, so the advice to "get the console version" isn't really a great solution either.

Of course, I don't want gamepad support to come at the expense of a good keyboard and mouse UI, but I (and apparently many others as this topic regularly resurfaces) would love for Bioware to consider leaving both types of support for the PC version.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Pakundo wrote...

Edit: Everything I say below applies to Pinnacle Game Profiler and any other program that emulates keyboard and mouse using a controller.


Xpadder is my beserk button.
Please don't mention Xpadder.

Xpadder is the worst insult you can hurl at someone who wishes for native, analogue supporting, interface adapted controller support.

Mentioning Xpadder in this context is essentially saying: "**** you, man, screw native controller support, just use this useless program to emulate a keyboard and mouse with your controller.
What, you wanted analogue movement support? lolnope, use wasd emulation.
What's that, you also wanted the interface of the game to actually show icons that match your controller? pffft."

So please, don't be "that guy" and mention Xpadder in this thread.

Much like the XFPS adapter that allows you to use a keyboard and mouse to emulate an XBox controller (when using an XBox).  It doesn't work nearly as well as native KBM support would.

[killswitch423]

I support this. Some people just prefer a controller (IE my wife).

[Twisted Path]

If the gameplay really does involve a lot of party control and a wide range of powers I'll use the keyboard and mouse regardless. If it plays more like an action-RPG where strafing is important and you press a button to attack I can't imagine not playing the game with a controller. It's just sort of wired into me to play action games with a controller and more overhead tactical-style games by pointing and clicking.

Regardless controller support would be great.

[FKA_Servo]

This would be a deal breaker for me - as in, I'd definitely go PC. 90% of the games I play I prefer to use a controller in all circumstances. There's really no justification not to support both KBM and controllers on a game in 2013.

In Exile wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Some
of the first mods for Skyrim on the PC was to replace parts of the UI.
SkyUI was created to make it easier to use Skyrim's UI with a mouse and
keyboard. The mod has 2,186,262 unique downloads from Skyrim Nexus.
Contract the number of SkyUI downloads with the number of copies Skyrim
has sold on the PC which is 3 million. That speaks volumes to the
quality of the original Skyrim UI on the PC.

That's the highest market penetration for a mod I've ever head of.

In fairness, it's a really good mod (IMO). 

I use it even with a controller. It's just nicer looking than the original UI, full stop. In addition to that, it has a mod control menu that a lot of other popular mods have been updated to take advantage of as well. It's a nice experience overall.

Modifié par TommyServo, 19 août 2013 - 06:08 .

[FKA_Servo]

ag99 wrote...

LOL i have had a PC for 12 years now and never once did i "hurt my wrist" how do u hurt ur wrist on a mouse and keyboard anyway? I dont get that

Can't speak for everyone, but in my case sitting at a computer for long periods of time is fundamentally uncomfortable. I don't have a particularly comfortable desk chair, or a particularly good desk. Lousy posture (encouraged by the lousy chair/desk), plus a non-ideal sitting position/hand resting position, adds up to back pain, neck pain, and wrist pain. I can't really afford to replace those two items either, but I'm not inclined to want to buy them even if I could because I have a comfy couch and a nice TV. I game primarily on PC these days too, but with it hooked up to my TV, while sitting on my couch.

Sitting at a computer is for work.

[BouncyFrag]

Pakundo wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

The 'Pinnacle Game Profiler' is a great program that uses templates (both user made and from the PGP website) for hundreds of PC games. The thing is that its $14 but after the hassle of xpadder, amongst other work-arounds to get controller support, it was worth it.

Read my above post, substitute Xpadder with Pinnacle Game Profiler, seeing as both programs do very similar things, and my opinion about them as "alternatives" for actual native controller support is the same.

I wasn't looking to offend. I've just found it much better than xpadder. It's not ideal, but was a solution that worked for me.

[Carmen_Willow]

Oh, please, oh please, let us have the controller. Think of it as a "reasonable accommodation" for those of us who are digitally challenged!

[AtreiyaN7]

Well, when I play for extended periods on either my Vita or my 3DS, which is about as close to a controller-type setup as I can get, I find that it starts killing my wrist sooner than using a mouse does.

I only start getting numb wrists/hands and suffering from pain after four-plus hours straight of inserting hundreds of edits in a document due to the highly repetitive motions involved (hello, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome). HOWEVER, I'm usually quite comfy during gaming sessions that run for four-plus hours.

Personally, I want my PC controls to be optimized to take advantage of the keyboard and mouse. BUT if they already have a controller scheme in the game, they might as well leave it in for those who prefer to use their controllers.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 20 août 2013 - 12:25 .

[Realmzmaster]

I have no problem with Bioware offering controller support. I will have a problem if the keyboard/mouse combination is thrown in as an afterthought and the UI is not optimized for the PC.

I understand that the console market is bigger, but if you are going to offer the game on the PC then make sure that it is optimized for that platform.

[Realmzmaster]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
It not a matter of PC elitism. The problem is that some developers will port over the Xbox version of the game to the PC without optimizing the game for keyboard/mouse which leads to a very poor experience for people who game with that combination. A prime example that come to mind is Skyrim. The PC version is not optimized for the mouse/keyboard combination especially the UI.

Maybe it's cuz I've never played Skyrim on a Box but I honest to god, in my (probably) hundreds of hours of playing noticed anything clunky or cumbersome while playing the game. Ever. Except dialogue. Which had a weird selection problem where it wouldn't always go to the option I selected. But there's a mod for that. Which I only got after installing Interesting NPC's since it's not like you're missing masterfully written verbal exchanges in vanilla anyway.

Some of the first mods for Skyrim on the PC was to replace parts of the UI. SkyUI was created to make it easier to use Skyrim's UI with a mouse and keyboard. The mod has 2,186,262 unique downloads from Skyrim Nexus. Contract the number of SkyUI downloads with the number of copies Skyrim has sold on the PC which is 3 million. That speaks volumes to the quality of the original Skyrim UI on the PC.

The original Skyrim UI was basically a straight port from the Xbox version. The PC Skyrim UI was not optimize for the keyboard/mouse. SkyUI aims to correct many of those problems.

The point is the community should not have to create a mod for something the developers should have done originally.

Do xBox and PS3 people have access to mods? If they don't then isn't it fairer to give more support to their UI's than ours if we can just mod it? Because I have to assume a UI made for keyboard and mouse won't "translate" well either. And if it comes to where the devs can only do one decently and they have to choose gamer mentality really just breaks down to "I deserve it more than they do!"

Other than that... It's the UI. The game still played fine. I didn't have to contort my fingers in any weird shapes during a fight and I never had an issue with orientating the camera. Really, this is something I can live with.

Skyrim has a creation kit that allows modders to mod the game. DAI will most likely not have a toolkit. Modding on the Frostbite 3 engine is slim to none and slim is walking out the door. There are almost no serious mods for the Frostbite 3 engine. 
If that is the case the game UI and control on the PC must be optimized for keyboard and mouse otherwise the PC experience suffers. Basically the PC ends up with a mediocre console port.

[Fredward]

Realmzmaster wrote...
Skyrim has a creation kit that allows modders to mod the game. DAI will most likely not have a toolkit. Modding on the Frostbite 3 engine is slim to none and slim is walking out the door. There are almost no serious mods for the Frostbite 3 engine. 
If that is the case the game UI and control on the PC must be optimized for keyboard and mouse otherwise the PC experience suffers. Basically the PC ends up with a mediocre console port.

Yeah, I realize. And I agree with your post above this one. It's not like I'm advocating half-ass ports but if the devs have to choose (they don't, necessarily, they may just be lazy) and one platform has the ability to mod whereas the other does not it makes sense to optimize the one which can't mod. It's fair. In DAI since there is going to be no toolkit I'd expect all platforms to be "optimized." Mind you if they did place a bigger focus on the console market I probably wouldn't even notice but, eh.

[Monica83]

HERESY YOU... ERETIC! ARGH...

of course im joking...

I am a pc user too.... And i think will be fine implementing a controller support for the people that play with controllers... so why not?

[Direwolf0294]

Yes please. I play the DA games on PC, but I much prefer the control set up they've got for the console versions.

[Komboloi]

Another plea here for native controller support for DA3. I'm stuck behind a kbm for 10+ hours a day at work and I would really love to be able to use my PC's 360 controller for this game. It's just so much more comfortable than a keyboard. It's so ridiculous that most other developers can include controller support in the PC versions of their games and Bioware instead removes it. I would double-dip in a minute if they added controller support to the PC versions of the Mass Effect games.