164 réponses à ce sujet

[Ailith Tycane]

o Ventus wrote...

I don't recall anyone in my party ever trying to "get in my pants". Isabela flirted, surely, but I wouldn't immediately consider that trying to get in my pants. The Warden/Hawke is always the one making the first move.

Yeah, I don't understand this idea that I heard a lot from gamers where Bioware is apparently pushing them into homosexual relationships in game to progress the story somehow. I have played every Bioware game since Baulders Gate 2 and I have NEVER seen them force anyone into a gay romance, ever. It is always left up to the player if they want to persue the same sex romances, but never thrust (lol) upon them.

My personal desire for female same sex romance options mostly stems from the fact that I generally don't like the male romance options that are provided for female characters by Bioware, where as they always seem to have really awesome female lead companions.That is just entirely my personal opinion. The only male romance I liked from Bioware was Valen Shadowbreath from NWN Haordes of The Underdark, and that was forever ago.

Modifié par Ailith430, 18 août 2013 - 06:27 .

[MaraGriffyn]

There is, of course, always room for improvement, but IMO one of the best things about DA2 was the companion relationships and party banter. If we're talking "realism", well. Some people can learn to get along and see each other's perspective (like Aveline and Isabela) and some won't (Fenris and Anders). I find the team dynamics in DA2 quite satisfying, and only hope for MORE MORE MORE from DA:I.

And yeah, I also agree with being a little baffled by anyone claiming NPCs actively try to get in their pants. Isabela and Zevran flirt with anything that moves, sure, because that's who they are. Doesn't mean the player is somehow being "pushed" into anything. It's always up to you which romance(s) you choose to pursue.

[andar91]

I like that some companions are not into you (like Aveline) because it makes them feel more real to me. Also, yeah, there are several romances possible, but they feel different.

I love the idea of companions forming a romance with each other. There was a brief reference in banter in DA2 to Fenris and Isabela having a tryst (or several), which I rather enjoyed. It would be neat if, say, Warden dude and Cassandra were not PC love interests, but fell in love with each other.

[M-Taylor]

Tsai Zhou wrote...

My biggest point on this is do not handle romance like dragon age 2. Do not make every character Bi, that is just silly. Make the romance make sense for the character, let it developt organically even if it is a bunch of moments of fumbling cuteness who knows just DO not make ALL romanceable npcs romanceable by both GENDERS. Make some only gay make some only straight and make some that are bi but do not make them all BI it devalues the romance option in general.

I would rather there be no romance if its an option of all bi or no romance.

They weren't.

It's been explained so many times at this point that it just infuriates me to see such ignorance. Players have explained it, Gaider has explained it and really, common sense should atleast infer to you a little.

They weren't *all* bisexual. They were player-sexual. Their sexuality changed depending on how you treated them. Gaider himself has confirmed this. The only true bisexual companion in DA2 was Isabela.

Merill was hetrosexual if a female Hawke never flirted with her. Not once did Merill ever indicate that she was a lesbian UNLESS the player initiated it. The same can be said for Fenris; he does not flirt with a male Hawke, or give any indication that he's gay/bisexual, UNLESS the player initates it. Both Merill and Fenris, for all intents and purposes, are hetrosexual in game unless you deliberately go out of your way and click the little heart icon. And if you've done that, then why the **** are surprised that they're hitting on you? So you have assumed they are bisexual through meta-gaming deductions.

Isabela hits on Hawke no matter what, and it's entirely in character for her to do so. Anders is slightly trickier because apparently there's some forced homosexuality going on there, but again I kinda believe that this only happens if a male Hawke hits on him. I've played through DA2 with a male Hawke twice now, and not once have I ever had Anders hit on my male Hawke. So once again, he was for all intents and purposes a hetrosexual male companion! And even if he did flirt with a male Hawke first, does it really offend straight male gamers that much? Gay men and women gamers deal with pixel-opposite gender people hitting on their character in almost every ****ing game. I've never read or heard them complain; it's only straight people with a real case of ignorance and naivity.

And the way they handled romances in Dragon Age 2 makes complete sense in terms of fairness. A gay person playing Dragon Ages: Origins has a grand total of one romance choice. One. There is no wiggle room; a gay man can only ever end up with Zevran, and a gay woman can only ever end up with Leliana. And what happens if the person does not like Zevran/Leliana as a character? Then they end up alone in the game, and a huge portion of RPG-goodness has been rendered obsolete for a certain area of the market.

Dragon Age 2 gives everyone the choice between two people of the same gender. Straight people have 2 choices, gay people have 2 choices and bisexual/open minded people have 4 choices.

Dragon Age 2 handled the romances well because, namely, it was fair! Why do people automatically assume that it's fair to give straight people a larger choice of romances? o.O

Modifié par M-Taylor, 18 août 2013 - 09:27 .

[Nyneve]

*neverending applause*

[Maria Caliban]

M-Taylor wrote...


They weren't *all* bisexual. They were player-sexual. Their sexuality changed depending on how you treated them.

Merill was hetrosexual if a female Hawke never flirted with her.

Anders is slightly trickier because apparently there's some forced homosexuality going on there...

So once again, he was for all intents and purposes a hetrosexual male companion!

I like how you start with player-sexual, and immediately talk about them being *really* heterosexual and suggest that Anders is 'forced' homosexual.

[M-Taylor]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like how you start with player-sexual, and immediately talk about them being *really* heterosexual and suggest that Anders is 'forced' homosexual.

What do you mean? Isn't that the definition of player sexual? Their orientation changes depending on the player.

Player hits on Meril/Fenris= their orientation, in that spercific universe with that spercific Hawke, is made bisexual/homosexual. Player does not indicate romance = Merill/Fenris remain 'hetrosexual'. Further evidence can be found in Fenris; he engages in hetrosexual activity with Isabela if the player does not pursue him. Unless you meta-game your way through DA2, there really is no indication that they are bisexual/homosexual. People make the mistake of assuming they are bisexual because they are possible to be romanced by every kind of Hawke going. That isn't the case; the only companion to be the true definition of bisexual is Isabela, because she does hit on your character no matter what. All other characters wait for Hawke.

And I won't comment on Anders because I've never had his Karl talk happen to my male Hawkes. I used the word forced homosexuality as a sarcastic undertone at straight male gamers who complained about Anders 'flirting' with their Hawke; I have been unlucky enough to read a thread where some guy claimed Anders virtually pixel raped him, and it ruined DA2 for him. It's just like, good grief, get over it. As a gay guy in real life, I have women hit on me on a regular basis and I don't go running to forums saying how disgusting and immoral their behaviour is, lol.

Modifié par M-Taylor, 18 août 2013 - 09:59 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Aistair and Morrigan hatred for each was one of the things I actually liked. I can't even imagine them respecting each other one bit.

[draken-heart]

I would like interactions to go in a way that is determined by the relationship with the Main Character, especially interactions that involve the Main Character.

On that note (though off-topic), anyone hope that the rivalry/friendship approval system be in or what?

[Frozenkex]

Dragon Age 2 handled the romances well because, namely, it was fair! Why do people automatically assume that it's fair to give straight people a larger choice of romances? o.O

cuz most people are straight?
http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States


I cant imagine big bearded warden guy to be bisexual.

Modifié par Frozenkex, 18 août 2013 - 10:18 .

[Navasha]

I have no complaints in the character department for any of Biowares recent games. I may not like some of the personalities, but that's life... I won't like everyone in RL either. Bioware, for the most part, is sky-high above the other competition when it comes to character interactions.

I think a perfect game would be a Skyrim-like game with my usual set of survival/realism mods all populated by Bioware-level characters. I would probably never stop playing it.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Where's the fun in having a bunch of people who all agree with each other, get along wonderfully and have broadly the same aims and objectives? If you have an interesting and diverse group you'll get disagreement, conflict, argument. Preferably reflecting the conflicts going on in the game world. Maybe some will be resolved, maybe some will degenerate into flat out hatred. It's fun to see it play out and I'd like more of it.

The romance argument makes not a whit of sense to me. It's an optional sidequest. Do not want? Do not press accept when offered sidequest. Do not get sidequest. Sorted.

[daaaav]

M-Taylor wrote...



And I won't comment on Anders because I've never had his Karl talk happen to my male Hawkes. I used the word forced homosexuality as a sarcastic undertone at straight male gamers who complained about Anders 'flirting' with their Hawke; I have been unlucky enough to read a thread where some guy claimed Anders virtually pixel raped him, and it ruined DA2 for him. It's just like, good grief, get over it. As a gay guy in real life, I have women hit on me on a regular basis and I don't go running to forums saying how disgusting and immoral their behaviour is, lol.

Yeah I hate the complaints condeming Anders for daring to hit on Hawke rather passionately. If Anders wanted to hit on Hawke then damn the delicate sensibilities of the player. 

However.... That situation reveals the flaw in player sexuality. His relationship with Karl was SCRUBBED with female Hawkes in order to not make him Bisexual... That is outrageous ladies and gentlemen! It is a perfect example of a characters integrity suffering in order to accomodate the wishes of the player.

This means that in order to preserve "playersexualness",  characters cannot do, say or have anything revealed about them that would reveal their sexuality (at least until later on in the narrative). This is fine for some characters but not all and shoehorns the bisexual characters into overtly sexual behaviour because they are the only ones who can.

Anyway, I have argued this point to death in the myriad of threads that address this issue...

In regards to the OP, Yes. I wish that characters would behave based on a myriad of motivations rather than existing merely in orbit around the protagonist. I believe that Morrigan is a good example of this by leaving the Warden at the end of DAO to persue her own goals. 

[Ailith Tycane]

Frozenkex wrote...

Dragon Age 2 handled the romances well because, namely, it was fair! Why do people automatically assume that it's fair to give straight people a larger choice of romances? o.O

cuz most people are straight?
http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States


I cant imagine big bearded warden guy to be bisexual.

www.tickld.com/images/gif/592bfa7dd99f44cf58e1435b2eb2a7e0.gif

Modifié par Ailith430, 18 août 2013 - 11:25 .

[Nyneve]

Frozenkex wrote...



I cant imagine big bearded warden guy to be bisexual.

Well it's a shame you don't have a vivid imagination.

draken-heart wrote...



On that note (though off-topic), anyone hope that the rivalry/friendship approval system be in or what?

I hope we get at least something similar, though I've had my problems with thr rivalry system. I liked that disagreeging with a companion ≠ them hating you, but I think they need to seperate respectfully having a different opinion and just being a jerk. And some of the rival romances, especially Anders and Merrill just came across...creepy for me because there was this huge power imbalance and in Anders case it was downright abusive with the templar ending. /off topic

[Frozenkex]

Id like to propose an analogy - there are more people with diabetes than gay people, and yet food stores are unfair. People with no diabetes are offered much wider variety of food which they can consume healthily but only fraction of that can be part of a healthy died for a person with diabetes. But its fine cause there are more people without diabetes.

Well it's a shame you don't have a vivid imagination.

well you can write anything and even find anything in real life. But if you imagine someone from fantasy - someone older, bearded guy, who is tough and stern like Duncan, Eddard Stark or Uther Lightbringer. It would be just very wierd that any of these guys werent straight as straight can be.
That grey warden companion from what we've seen is going to be no Renly, but more like Robert or Stannis Baratheon, or any of the above.

[Dhiro]

Stannis is having sex for Davos, love, you know it in your heart.

[Magdalena11]

Frozenkex wrote...

Id like to propose an analogy - there are more people with diabetes than gay people, and yet food stores are unfair. People with no diabetes are offered much wider variety of food which they can consume healthily but only fraction of that can be part of a healthy died for a person with diabetes. But its fine cause there are more people without diabetes.

Well it's a shame you don't have a vivid imagination.

well you can write anything and even find anything in real life. But if you imagine someone from fantasy - someone older, bearded guy, who is tough and stern like Duncan, Eddard Stark or Uther Lightbringer. It would be just very wierd that any of these guys werent straight as straight can be.
That grey warden companion from what we've seen is going to be no Renly, but more like Robert or Stannis Baratheon, or any of the above.

Um, Richard the Lionhearted was gay and he didn't exactly run from a fight.  You can't judge a book by its cover.

[Plaintiff]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Aistair and Morrigan hatred for each was one of the things I actually liked. I can't even imagine them respecting each other one bit.

"You're stupid!"

"Oh yeah? Well you have a big nose!"

Doesn't really scream 'arch-nemeses' to me.

[Plaintiff]

Frozenkex wrote...

Id like to propose an analogy - there are more people with diabetes than gay people, and yet food stores are unfair. People with no diabetes are offered much wider variety of food which they can consume healthily but only fraction of that can be part of a healthy died for a person with diabetes. But its fine cause there are more people without diabetes.

That is a terrible, awful, offensive analogy.

And besides, grocers and restaurants should make more effort to accomodate people with different dietary needs.

Just because we discriminate against group X does not make it okay to discriminate against group Y.