164 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

It's a little concerning that being rejected by a woman makes her more "interesting".

[franciscoamell]

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

[Ailith Tycane]

LindsayLohan wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

It's a little concerning that being rejected by a woman makes her more "interesting".

I originally stated that she is the closest thing to my idea of a strong and independent woman. All we have left for a romance is this weak and frail character that always needs someone to take care of her. It is like looking after a child. Aveline would have been a much better character and the idea representation of the type of woman I would want to be with.

Are you a troll? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously with that combo of username, profile picture, and sugnature...

If you are a troll trying to make fun pf feminists, then please go away. If by chance you are serious however, then David Gaider has already addressed the idea of not all NPC's being romantically accessable. Also, Merril wasn't the only female SS option, there was also Isabella.

[ParkBom]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Not just Varric.
All of them.

[sandalisthemaker]

Ailith430 wrote...

LindsayLohan wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

It's a little concerning that being rejected by a woman makes her more "interesting".

I originally stated that she is the closest thing to my idea of a strong and independent woman. All we have left for a romance is this weak and frail character that always needs someone to take care of her. It is like looking after a child. Aveline would have been a much better character and the idea representation of the type of woman I would want to be with.

Are you a troll? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously with that combo of username, profile picture, and sugnature...

If you are a troll trying to make fun pf feminists, 

Yes.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 20 août 2013 - 12:18 .

[Ailith Tycane]

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

I wouldn't say he's prejudiced. He's better than a lot of white male fantasy authors as far as treating his characters fairly, regardless of gender, etc. He does sometimes slip up and have moments where it's painfully obvious that it's a dude writing this female character's point of view, but I guess that's to be expected. He's also hilariously bad at writing sex scenes.

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Yes.

Thanks for clearing that up, just wanted to make sure I wasn't being presumptuous.

Modifié par Ailith430, 20 août 2013 - 12:22 .

[Steelcan]

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

Projection of internal insecurities

[wolfhowwl]

LindsayLohan wrote...

My question is why do we have so much little influence on female characters? You would think that by now fantasy has branched away from literature that placed females in minor roles. We should have more female major roles as the female character archetypes tend to be more influential and interesting.

On topic the only S/S lesbian romance I got in the previous game was Merill. Merill Is a weak character and she does not represent the independent and strong woman Idea. I changed my romance option to Aveline and bioware didn't bother to implement her romance. I am now trapped with romancing a weak and naive elf who is everything I hate about the way females are portrayed in the media. Bioware should be able to implement a strong ROMANCABLE woman for their next title

Merrill, like Tali and ME1 Liara, was written by Bioware as the socially awkward, shy virgin character to appeal to a certain demographic.

An unkind person would call them nerdbait.

[General Malor]

Plaintiff wrote...

It's a little concerning that being rejected by a woman makes her more "interesting".

Is it? Because I said it made her more interesting in terms of her character. Not as a potential romance option. Aveline is more interesting than Merill as character. That's my opinion.

Female characters can be interesting without them being romance options my friend, I hope you can see that.

[Plaintiff]

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

[Ailith Tycane]

Plaintiff wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

It's kind of funny how that guy was super caught up on the whole beard issue, and as far as I can remember, Renly had a beard...

[Steelcan]

Plaintiff wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

[Ailith Tycane]

Steelcan wrote...
Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

Yes, because it still negatively impacts the type of people you portray. 

[Plaintiff]

General Malor wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

It's a little concerning that being rejected by a woman makes her more "interesting".

Is it? Because I said it made her more interesting in terms of her character. Not as a potential romance option. Aveline is more interesting than Merill as character. That's my opinion.

Female characters can be interesting without them being romance options my friend, I hope you can see that.

Well it's the sort of thing I hear a lot, where male gamers say that characters like Aveline and Traynor are automatically more interesting because they reject the protagonist's advances. There are a couple of reasons I find it problematic, but as long as being rejected doesn't make you want to pursue Aveline even more, I guess it's not so bad.

[Steelcan]

Ailith430 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

Yes, because it still negatively impacts the type of people you portray. 

Not necessarily, there are positive sterotypes.

[Plaintiff]

Steelcan wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

Yes.

Prejudice is not inherently malicious, it's just ignorant.

[franciscoamell]

Plaintiff wrote...
Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

Well, sorry about that.

And why the hell is that? Renly is not his only gay character, Jon Connington is gay too and not stereotypical at all. If there is "stereotypical" gay character in a future Bioware game will that make Bioware prejudiced? Can't a character be both affeminate and well written, full of depth? Dumbledore was kind of stereotypical imo and still a badass well written character. 

[Ailith Tycane]

Steelcan wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

Yes, because it still negatively impacts the type of people you portray. 

Not necessarily, there are positive sterotypes.

Possibly, but then what if you are a part of that group and you don't live up to that imagined positive stereotype?

[Plaintiff]

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

Well, sorry about that.

And why the hell is that? Renly is not his only gay character, Jon Connington is gay too and not stereotypical at all. If there is "stereotypical" gay character in a future Bioware game will that make Bioware prejudiced? Can't a character be both affeminate and well written, full of depth? Dumbledore was kind of stereotypical imo and still a badass well written character. 

I've not read Martin's work. Once again, my comment was targeted at another poster, not at Martin himself. The basis of that poster's argument is a quote form Martin stating that he wrote Renly with specific traits "for a reason", implying that Renly's traits are directly linked to his homosexuality, and that, follwoing that logic, all homosexuals should be portrayed similarly.

You'll notice I said "If that poster is correct, then Martin is prejudiced". If Martin has non-stereotypical homosexual characters, then that poster is not correct. See how that works?

[Steelcan]

Ailith430 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

Yes, because it still negatively impacts the type of people you portray. 

Not necessarily, there are positive sterotypes.

Possibly, but then what if you are a part of that group and you don't live up to that imagined positive stereotype?

It is no failing on my part.  But I won't begrudge anyone thinking I am better than i really am.

[Steelcan]

Plaintiff wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

Yes.

Prejudice is not inherently malicious, it's just ignorant.

So is sterotyping.

[AresKeith]

General Malor wrote...

LindsayLohan wrote...

My question is why do we have so much little influence on female characters? You would think that by now fantasy has branched away from literature that placed females in minor roles. We should have more female major roles as the female character archetypes tend to be more influential and interesting.

On topic the only S/S lesbian romance I got in the previous game was Merill. Merill Is a weak character and she does not represent the independent and strong woman Idea. I changed my romance option to Aveline and bioware didn't bother to implement her romance. I am now trapped with romancing a weak and naive elf who is everything I hate about the way females are portrayed in the media. Bioware should be able to implement a strong ROMANCABLE woman for their next title

I almost fully agree. I don't know if I'd say they are more interesting, because that's subjective. But I do enjoy them more often.

I wanted Aveline because she was so strong and herself and... she just had this imdomitable feel without being obnoxius about it that I just love. Instead I had Merill who I don't fully trust or Isabell who I really shouldn't trust. I got denied by Aveline, which made her more interesting, and never got to be with her. I would totally trade the Merill option for Aveline.

Bioware dropped the ball on that, in my opinion.

I like the fact that Bioware makes certain companions non-romanceable 

[Plaintiff]

Steelcan wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

LOL. George RR Martin is prejudiced, so all writers of Fantasy should be.

What makes you think mister Martin is prejudiced??

Derp.

I was paraphrasing another poster's argument, not expressing my own opinion.

But if that poster is correct, and Martin deliberately wrote Renly with particular traits intended to convey a stereotypical image of homosexual, then that is the precise definition of prejudice.

Is sterotyping without malice truly prejudice?

Yes.

Prejudice is not inherently malicious, it's just ignorant.

So is sterotyping.

Yes, thank you for making my point for me. Stereotyping is a result of prejudice.