119 réponses à ce sujet

[KieranW]

I would have wanted her to come along, just to watch her try and seduce Javik. He is EVERYTHING she could ever want. An un-paralleled warrior, last of his kind, vengeful and dark, tormented by his past...

But if I know Javik - and I do know Javik - he would promptly killed her without a second thought, which would have made my day.

[ThatBigStupidJellyfish]

No, why would you save her in the first place?

[KieranW]

I would have wanted her to come along, just to watch her try and seduce Javik. He is EVERYTHING she could ever want. An un-paralleled warrior, last of his kind, vengeful and dark, tormented by his past...

But if I know Javik - and I do know Javik - he would promptly killed her without a second thought, which would have made my day.

[Bourne Endeavor]

The option was stupid in ME2. It wouldn't have been any better in ME3. Although! If Javik threw her out the airlock in a cut-scene. I would never save Samara again.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 20 août 2013 - 05:50 .

[NeonFlux117]

To be serious. Even in my pure renegade ultra infiltrator Femshep super B!tch playthrough, I didn't let her aboard the normandy. I let Samara kill her. But I did make up for it by bustin' a cap in Mordin's behind in ME3.

[Sir DeLoria]

*Shep wakes up and walks out of room*

*finds James Vega lying dead in a bed*

"...meh"

*shrugs*

[AlexMBrennan]

But people -- RPG players especially - are programmed to think wandering Paladins are instrinically less dangerous than vampires. Paladin good! Vampire bad! And Bioware gave up on making a counterpoint to that and just rolled with the simpler idea.

Samara is not a paladin by a long shot - at best she's lawful neutral.

However, Samara did swear that silly oath, and everything Shepard knows about Samara and justice in general suggests that they take their oaths absolutely seriously, and that makes Morinth the much bigger risk: Samara will follow Shepard's orders and will not harm him whilst she is bound by that oath whilst Morinth is serial killer addicted to murder who may at any turn abandon or betray Shepard.

What's more, if Shepard was worried about Samara then he should simply not haven recruited her in the first place so I don't see a logically consistent path that would lead to Shepard picking Morinth.

[rspanther]

Redbelle wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

I would have liked to have seen Morinth as an option to have for the party. Everyone could dislike her at the party and you could have a repeated situation if Shepard tries to get with Morinth.

Morinth, Kelly, Donnelly and Gabriella were missing from my party, sadly.

Conrad was missing from mine.

That was a joke.

Though imagine how far he'd geek out if he woke up with Shepard the next day.

EEEEEWWWWWW.
That is so not funny.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No you train Morinth to behave properly. Samara failed in her upbringing. She should have seen that Morinth was going to be a serial killer and trained her to be like Dexter so she would only kill bad people and not innocent people.

See? Then no one would complain about Morinth. They would say "Damn that's was brutal end for that person, but we can't say they didn't deserve it." and "Someone is going around taking out the trash and only the really really bad trash. I'm not going to go after them." And that person works for the police. See?

I "love" how Morinth's victim is the only innocent person on Omega.

And that grieving mother... .

[Wolfva2]

Bionuts wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

You're right about that Street; but I was talking about the vampire lovers, not the players who enjoy the challenge of recruiting and maintaining a difficult character.

Sorry, vampires are just my petpeeve. I never understood why people are so enamored by humanoid ticks.

Physically dominant/dangerous people are attractive. Both men and women. Of course it probably never plays out the way people think it will but....

Good point, especially if you're a sub.  Or, one of those women who thinks she can 'change him!'.  You're right, it almost never plays out the way they think it will.  Delusions rarely do.

[Wolfva2]

StreetMagic wrote...

The option is only stupid because they rewrote Samara as someone who doesn't deliver on her own threats. And they rewrote Shepard as someone not bad enough for Samara to tangle with.

They were both intended to be dangerous.

But people -- RPG players especially - are programmed to think wandering Paladins are instrinically less dangerous than vampires. Paladin good! Vampire bad! And Bioware gave up on making a counterpoint to that and just rolled with the simpler idea.

How does Samara not deliver on her threats?  Because she doesn't try to kill Shep?  Why would she?  He never does anything that  causes her to egregiously go against her code.  He's not written that way.  I know some people would love if he was an empty slate they could have do whatever acts of depravity and murder they wish, but they can't.

I think one of the problems is the asinine decision to use the terms 'paragon' and 'renegade'.  They have specific meanings that don't really apply to Shep.  In ME, they really mean more or less, 'idealist' and 'realist'.  The Paragon Shep is more of an optimist.  He believes in people, and thinks they'll do the right thing.  Renegade is more realist or pesimist  He believes people basically suck; they're selfish amoral beasts who do what is best for themselves and there's no point wasting your time with appealing to their 'better' natures; most will just fall short anyways.  Or something like that.

Samara is more the wandering Samurai then a Paladin.  Paladins are 'holy warriors', Samurai are warriors of the code.  I guess that's why her name is 'Samara' instead of 'Paladamara'...but I digress.  That they're 'intrisincally less dangerous than vampires' I think is a given...but ONLY less dangerous to the player.  Since they player isn't, well, you know.  A vampire.  Samara travels with Shep not only because she can help him, but because she sees his quest as being in line with hers.  It's in line with the code.  As opposed to if we could play Shep to be a vampire, in which case she'd be opposed to him.

[Hey]

oh probably.. i can't imagine how having a serial killer at the party would make less interesting

[Bionuts]

Ted Bundy: Now lemme tell ya bout that time...

[Wolfva2]

Festae9 wrote...

oh probably.. i can't imagine how having a serial killer at the party would make less interesting

I dunno...when you wake up bound to the table and your guest comes dancing out of the pantry wearing your friend's skin as a cloak...things can get interesting. 

I swear though, breakfast will never be the same after I invited that cereal killer over....

[Bourne Endeavor]

StreetMagic wrote...

The option is only stupid because they rewrote Samara as someone who doesn't deliver on her own threats. And they rewrote Shepard as someone not bad enough for Samara to tangle with.

They were both intended to be dangerous.

But people -- RPG players especially - are programmed to think wandering Paladins are instrinically less dangerous than vampires. Paladin good! Vampire bad! And Bioware gave up on making a counterpoint to that and just rolled with the simpler idea.

Touche. It would have been far more compelling if there was any merit to Morinth's argument. Her being presented as irredeemably evil and very apparent psychopath practically made the decision for you before the mission even began. BioWare's inability to consistently do morally grey rearing its ugly head.

[Sundance31us]

Could just imagine Morinth at the Citadel party....

[Xilizhra]

I think one of the problems is the asinine decision to use the terms 'paragon' and 'renegade'. They have specific meanings that don't really apply to Shep. In ME, they really mean more or less, 'idealist' and 'realist'. The Paragon Shep is more of an optimist. He believes in people, and thinks they'll do the right thing. Renegade is more realist or pesimist He believes people basically suck; they're selfish amoral beasts who do what is best for themselves and there's no point wasting your time with appealing to their 'better' natures; most will just fall short anyways. Or something like that.

I never found this to be true, given that Paragon is more often right than Renegade; Paragon is arguably more of a realist.

[Dieb]

If you find me rather choosing a character who justifies her every action with "because codex does the thinking" over another, you know there's got to be something seriously wrong with the latter. So no, despite my (from an ingame POV, mind you) hatred for Samara, I never even took Morinth seriously as a legitimate choice.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 21 août 2013 - 02:17 .

[jtav]

Regarding Morinth and Samara, this C.S. Lewis quote seems appropriate.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

Morinth is a monster, but Samara frightens me more. She might be good, but she knows no compassion.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think one of the problems is the asinine decision to use the terms 'paragon' and 'renegade'. They have specific meanings that don't really apply to Shep. In ME, they really mean more or less, 'idealist' and 'realist'. The Paragon Shep is more of an optimist. He believes in people, and thinks they'll do the right thing. Renegade is more realist or pesimist He believes people basically suck; they're selfish amoral beasts who do what is best for themselves and there's no point wasting your time with appealing to their 'better' natures; most will just fall short anyways. Or something like that.

I never found this to be true, given that Paragon is more often right than Renegade; Paragon is arguably more of a realist.

Define right. 

Renegade choices just work out differently. 

[Ravensword]

jtav wrote...

Regarding Morinth and Samara, this C.S. Lewis quote seems appropriate.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

Morinth is a monster, but Samara frightens me more. She might be good, but she knows no compassion.

That quote is ironic and almost hypocritical when you consider the fact the C.S. Lewis was a Christian apologist.